Dinner date

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Xantippe said:
That’s better!

DateAnalysis said:

“To me, that simply means that I need to work harder to impress her.”

We don’t amorously kiss people we’re impressed by. We kiss people we love, passionately. Two dates in, do you love her passionately? Does she love you passionately? If not, it’s a little too early for a kiss.

I think Ridgerunner has some good points. I would add that you need to make sure that your physical expressions of affection are running parallel with the emotional development of your relationship, neither running ahead nor running behind. That’s a tricky thing to monitor, but the idea is that physical affection should be an accurate expression of your emotional intimacy. Obviously, a faithful Catholic has a somewhat limited range of physical expressions of intimacy available to choose from during dating, but the trick is to convey the warmth of your affection accurately through the gestures legitimately available to you. You don’t want to “say” something with physical affection that you don’t mean yet, even if it’s “just” a kiss.

Best wishes!
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I absolutely agree. A kiss is a sign of affection and closeness that doesn’t necessarily belong in a second date, in fact, I would say it rarely would (perhaps if the people have known each other for a long time before dating and are already very serious when they do start dating). A kiss is not just a random sign of “you seem like a decent sort of guy” It communicates a much deeper affection and commitment than something like that, and it can never be earned. It is not the kind of thing a person gives you because you put in effort to earn it, it is a freely given gift, a sign of affection and love. Don’t worry about “earning a kiss” just worry about getting to know her and letting her get to know you. If it starts looking like your relationship could be serious, then you can start wondering about whether or not you should kiss her, not as something you’ve earned, but as a sign of your deep affection for her and commitment to her.
 
RoseMary131 said:
Thinking you need to work harder to impress someone - people often do not like the idea of someone “working hard to impress them”. People are “impressed” by a person’s true nature - not something they work hard in order to impress.

Some woman value their kiss to be something more than, “I enjoyed talking to you and you impressed me.” so here’s a kiss.

What I read is… you took her on two dates, you talked a long time… you think that she would have kissed you… you were disappointed that it was “just” a hug… you think she’s going to make you work hard for the kiss… make you work to “impress” her… then you get your reward… a kiss.

Doesn’t sound impressive or respectful in my opinion. (I wonder if she reads CAF.)
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First, I think we’ll just need to agree to disagree. Secondly, I’ve not said anything before, but I do not appreciate your condescending tone. I came here for advice, not to be bashed on. How can you talk about respect when you don’t even respect your fellow forum posters? Please adjust your tone accordingly.
 
“Secondly, I’ve not said anything before, but I do not appreciate your condescending tone.”

I don’t think one can really pick up tone very well from the internet. It’s hard to give advice without sounding at least a little condescending to a sensitive ear.

Rosemary has a very good point about the perils of trying to impress. From painful (nonromantic) personal experience, the times when I was trying to impress were the times where I fell flat on my face the worst.

Best wishes!
 
I think too much has been made of DateAnalysis’ words regarding “trying to impress”. I think we all put forward our better selves when we’re dating someone we really like, and I’m sure that’s all he means by that; well, I’m not “sure”, but that’s how I’d read it.

The kissing part will sort itself out over time. Catholics will often disagree about when kissing should start in dating relationships, so it will be something that he and this girl will have to figure out between themselves. That said, I think there’s some good advice so far that there’s no need to rush things. Establishing that you respect a girl, and that the two of you have a good basis for a relationship, is far more important than establishing that you want to start physical expressions of affection.
 
on_the_hill said:
Because you don’t like Catholic dating advice or potential kisses on the second date? 🙂
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I don’t like dating, Catholic or otherwise. Guys my age either don’t know how to date or don’t care about dating norms. It’s like sticking your hand in a box of spiders. I wouldn’t consider going on a one on one date until I knew the guy pretty well…so I guess I’m against kissing on the second date?
 
DateAnalysis said:
First, I think we’ll just need to agree to disagree. Secondly, I’ve not said anything before, but I do not appreciate your condescending tone. I came here for advice, not to be bashed on. How can you talk about respect when you don’t even respect your fellow forum posters? Please adjust your tone accordingly.
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I do respect others - those on the forum and those that the posters may be posting about - such as respect for the young lady you have been discussing possible reasons she chose not to kiss you after talking with you for a long time during your second date.

I explained in my posts what I understood from your messages.
DateAnalysis said:
I asked the question because I thought the date went well, and we talked until the restaurant closed. But **I didn’t get **a good-night kiss at the end of the night, so I was wondering if the date really went as well as I thought it did…

I need to work harder to impress her. …

Anyways, happy to discuss further if you’d like, but I hope that clarified a few things.
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Have you thought about speaking with this young lady to see if you both understand “the measurement of a date that went really well is for the young man to receive a good-night kiss from the young lady”?

While you may be measuring if a date goes really well by “if you GET a kiss”, maybe that is not how she expresses “this date went really well.” Maybe she uses words to express how she feels about the evening and not a kiss.

Maybe you are speaking two different languages. Its often best to speak with someone directly instead of asking strangers on the internet to interpret why you “didn’t GET a good-night kiss” or why you got “just” a hug.
 
Another nuance is that a hug or a kiss could be warmer or cooler, depending on execution. There’s the kissing-great-grandma-on-her-birthday peck, as well as the I-really-like-you hug.

If she really likes you, it just matters that you make it clear how much you like her, however you manage to convey that.
 
I’m glad I haven’t kissed every guy that I went on two dates with. OP, if you feel the date went well it probably did. Have you expressed an interest in seeing her again? You can usually tell by her response to that. My intended is by his admission a bit “old fashioned” on somethings (although I think he’s just right) we had been dating for quite some time before we kissed, we learned that we wanted to be serious not from being physical or kissing but from spending a lot of time together constructively, doing things and yes talking until we closed down a few restaurants. Have you talked about what type of books she likes? Movies? I think bookstores are really fun dates. My intended got a lot of brownie points for coming to a poetry reading I was performing at, try dates outside of dinner and movie and put the time into getting to know her and not being so goal based. Don’t worry about what number date a kiss falls on, enjoy getting to know her.
 
“…try dates outside of dinner and movie and put the time into getting to know her and not being so goal based.”

I think a walk around a zoo (if you’re lucky enough to have one) is an underrated date option. I see a lot of couples having a really good time.
 
I wanted the guy I was dating to kiss me on the second date. We were in high school and were really liked each other. He was too shy to make the first move and I was shy as well and obviously couldn’t just do it myself…it isn’t the girl’s place to initiate. After many years of dating and growing up, we are now married for 2 years and expecting our first child.😉
 
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