Dinosaurs and Genesis

[BigFig1]

Hi BigFig,

Of course we Catholics believe that dinosaurs existed. Where is your brother’s conrete proof that Catholics teach otherwise?

As for tying in with Adam and Eve…well, the first humans were created last of all God’s creation. So I don’t see any conflict there. They were in a safe haven - the Garden of Eden, but due to their fall from grace, were evicted and banned from this paradise, now facing death, hardships and all sorts of calamities.

The story of Adam and Eve is told as a moral teaching and who God is. It is not a science book nor is it a history book (although there is historical settings and events). The stories of the Bible were composed over many centuries in with various authors and genres, albeit, God was author who inspired these men’s words.

As for the world not being created for us first as you said: Not so. God created everything for us, that is why we humans were created last. We were to have domain (care for) over the earth.

Why, for that matter, even the dinosaurs served their purpose: we have fuel from their “remains” for our use.

blessings,
CEM

CEM5,
Thank you for your kind and wonderful words! That actually clears alot up for me and my thinking. I appreciate it and u highly God bless u!!

 

[CEM5]

CEM5,
Thank you for your kind and wonderful words! That actually clears alot up for me and my thinking. I appreciate it and u highly God bless u!!

Awwww, you are quite welcome BigFig. God bless you too.

 

[BigFig1]

Yep, it’s to be read in the how it is written. Poetry, although not literal can (obviously) hold truth, as can saga, myth etc. The modern scientific mind finds reading the bible difficult. Living in a post-modern culture doesn’t help either.

The same reason a police detective doesn’t read a Stephen King novel and proceed to open a new murder investigation. What needs to be looked for is what truth the author is trying to convey.

Beautiful example! Helps plenty! GOD bless you!!

Because dinosaurs aren’t in the Bible doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. haha, tell him it’s the bible not an Encyclopedia Britannica!!

Amen good point! GOD bless u!

Since God created science, it stands to reason He cannot contradict Himself. If something is proved scientifically, then that is the way it is. Dinosaurs existed millions of years before humans–that has been proven. That in no way contradicts the idea that God created everything, including humans, and God’s timeline does not correspond to ours. He’s not on our schedule, and we should not be attempting to put Him there. Why He created Dinosaurs millions of years before humans is not really our business. The Book of Genesis only says what God did–it does not attempt to explain how He did it. And you are correct–the world was not created for us first–God created the animals first, that is clear in Scripture. We were created last and are made in His own image and likeness.

The Catholic Church does not insist on a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. You are free to believe that of course, but all it asks you to believe is that God created everything–it does not require an explanation of when or how He did it. There should be no confusion–God and science cannot contradict each other, as God is the author of science.

Thank you for that explanation! that was very helpful to me an my thinking! thank you and GOD bless!

Amen! I’ve been “preaching” something similar for years.

I am truly in awe of all the elaborate tools God used to create his earth. Like many scientific minds before me, the discoveries of science only stengthen my belief in the Church as they simply demonstrate the power of God.

Here is a thought for you case: consider God’s design in peppering the planet with Meteors 65 mya, which opened the door for mammals, and in turn, us, to thrive. When you dig into all the details of the earths past, you begin to see a brilliant plan emerging. Many scientists often comment on how it took many, perfect “coincidences” for us Humans to come about and survive. Those “coincidences” defy odds. Those “coincidences” are God.

Beautiful point! Very nicely explained ! Helps me understand much better! thank you and GOD Bless you!

 

[Della]

Hi All!! I just wanted to ask a question about something that has been kind of bothering me for a while. My brother, is against the catholic church and its teaching, and he continues to try and say how Christians do not believe in dinosaurs. Is there anything in the catholic church that says that? That got me thinking. Since dinosaurs existed, because of the remains that have been found. How does that tie in with Adam and Eve? I believe that the Adam and Eve should not be understood literally. The main question I’m trying to ask is that if carbon dating put human only being around for thousands of years, and it put dinosaurs being alive millions of years ago, then I’m wondering why god created us so far apart. My thought begins to be the world was not created for us at first. Please give your feedback and what you think. Thank you and God Bless!!

Bible scholars who have studied the ancient Hebrew languages tell us that the “6 days” of creation are epochs not 24 hour days. The opening chapter of Genesis is told in mythological form. Mythology does not mean false, it is a a precise form of communicating truth as is poetry and other forms of writing that are not straight history.

Gensis tells us that the animals were created before man. That would include dinosaurs and all other forms that came and went before man’s creation. Man was given the authority to name the animals. The ancients, when they discovered dinosaur remains called them dragons, cyclops, griffins, etc. because they had no idea what they were seeing. Modern man realized they were ordinary animals but of a certain kind. There is much evidence that the avians are descendants of some theropod dinosaurs. If true, it means that some of the dinosaurs are still with us in the form of budgies, robins, eagles, vultures, and doves, etc. So, various forms of life outlive others while some drop off into extinction.

The Church teaches that we must believe that God created all we see and that we all descended from one pair of humans. Other than that, we are free to discover how it happened, which is what science attempts to do.

 

[edwest2]

Hi All!! I just wanted to ask a question about something that has been kind of bothering me for a while. My brother, is against the catholic church and its teaching, and he continues to try and say how Christians do not believe in dinosaurs. Is there anything in the catholic church that says that? That got me thinking. Since dinosaurs existed, because of the remains that have been found. How does that tie in with Adam and Eve? I believe that the Adam and Eve should not be understood literally. The main question I’m trying to ask is that if carbon dating put human only being around for thousands of years, and it put dinosaurs being alive millions of years ago, then I’m wondering why god created us so far apart. My thought begins to be the world was not created for us at first. Please give your feedback and what you think. Thank you and God Bless!!

Opinions don’t matter.

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

'It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Peace,
Ed

 

[kompaz]

Careful here… Soft tissue has been found and carbon dating of bones came back at 20000 to 30000 years old…

The level of C-14 in the sample decreases with age exponentially. At one point it drops below the equipment sensitivity.

Hence, if your equipment can detect levels of C-14 corresponding to the sample age of 30 thousand years, any sample older than that will test as being 30 thousand years old, regardless of the actual age of the sample.

 

[roselily]

I do not know more, but I have always think that dinosaurs is one kind of dragons.

I have thought dinosaurs are same as dragons.

And created not from earth.

scientists say dinosaurs can not fly even latest found dinosaurs have feathers because their bone so heavy.

All of us have never seen real dinosaurs before, and how could they sure that?

and dragons must have big bones also. I would rather not see dragons.

Look at the begining of Genesis say that In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth,-and we just know the God creations on earth, - not know about how God created heavens.

 

[buffalo]

We have discussed these dates before, buffalo. Carbon dating is wrong for (non-avian) dinosaur bones.

If I stand on a kitchen scales that can measure up to 20 pounds, and it shows 20 pounds, does that mean:

• 
  *]I have maxed out the scales.
  *]I actually weigh 20 pounds.
  
  If you answered b), then I have this great weight-loss plan to sell you for a mere $499.95 (plus shipping).
  
  Dinosaur bones max-out carbon dating. All you are measuring is either the sensitivity of the equipment, or the amount of contamination present.
  
  rossum

• 
  These dates are within the accepted range of carbon dating.

 

[Colm_Cille]

I’ve enjoyed reading the answers to this thread, good show lads!

One other point I will make is the utter irrelevance of time, something which is missed by a lot of believers and non-believers alike. Time is not fully understood by us, but it seems to operate as a dimension, a natural law. Even as the world had a beginning, so did time, like all natural laws, and so anything that came before time (i.e. God) would be timeless by its very nature. If God operates outside the confines of “time”, who can possibly say what the relevance of 65 million years or any other purported figure is?

I would personally favour a non-literal interpretation of Genesis, though it must be remembered that that does not licence its dismissal as a source of knowledge. We must just re-define the parameters though which we draw our interpretation of Genesis.

I would also be interested as to whether anyone can suggest a particular reason or purpose for the Dinosaurs, or were they just slightly larger lizards with no particularly amazing qualities? I always thought they had a very good PR department, the Dinosaurs.

 

[empther]

Carbon-14 dating is only good going back a few thousand years, after which the C-14 atoms are so few in number they can’t be differentiated from recently created C-14.
Yeah, well, bacteria are always moving around, you know, even in solid rock two miles down. Good luck trying to get an unadulterated sample!

 

[buffalo]

I’ve enjoyed reading the answers to this thread, good show lads!

One other point I will make is the utter irrelevance of time, something which is missed by a lot of believers and non-believers alike. Time is not fully understood by us, but it seems to operate as a dimension, a natural law. Even as the world had a beginning, so did time, like all natural laws, and so anything that came before time (i.e. God) would be timeless by its very nature. If God operates outside the confines of “time”, who can possibly say what the relevance of 65 million years or any other purported figure is?

I would personally favour a non-literal interpretation of Genesis, though it must be remembered that that does not licence its dismissal as a source of knowledge. We must just re-define the parameters though which we draw our interpretation of Genesis.

I would also be interested as to whether anyone can suggest a particular reason or purpose for the Dinosaurs, or were they just slightly larger lizards with no particularly amazing qualities? I always thought they had a very good PR department, the Dinosaurs.

I believe they are referred to in the Bible as behemoths.

Perhaps God sees time like a rolled up tape measure, all at once with several layers. Humans living on the tape have to look back through all the graduations.

 

[Colm_Cille]

I think that’s a very good way of putting it.

 

[Bradski]

These dates are within the accepted range of carbon dating.

If you’re checking fossil dates that could be many millions of years old, why would you use a method that’s only accurate to about 60,000 years?

Science confirms that all living humans are descended from a single couple. All of us are descended from Mitochondrial Eve’s parents.

rossum

Bear in mind that Mitochondrial Eve is not the original female ancestor (and hence couple, as she obviously had a partner), but the most recent common ancestor.

 

[CEM5]

I’ve enjoyed reading the answers to this thread, good show lads!

One other point I will make is the utter irrelevance of time, something which is missed by a lot of believers and non-believers alike. Time is not fully understood by us, but it seems to operate as a dimension, a natural law. Even as the world had a beginning, so did time, like all natural laws, and so anything that came before time (i.e. God) would be timeless by its very nature. If God operates outside the confines of “time”, who can possibly say what the relevance of 65 million years or any other purported figure is?

I would personally favour a non-literal interpretation of Genesis, though it must be remembered that that does not licence its dismissal as a source of knowledge. We must just re-define the parameters though which we draw our interpretation of Genesis.

I would also be interested as to whether anyone can suggest a particular reason or purpose for the Dinosaurs, or were they just slightly larger lizards with no particularly amazing qualities? I always thought they had a very good PR department, the Dinosaurs.

Well, although we may never know why God created dinosaurs, I do know that in Scripture God created everything for us - His children. We were to have domain over the earth and its creatures (care for it/them), and for our use.

Perhaps that was the purpose of the dinosaurs: their demise has left us with the fuel we use today for our conveniences and comfort.

I am just surmising, and trying to reason it out. Before God created anything, He already knew the outcome: that we would sin, fall from grace, and therefore, by our sin, death and destruction would enter the world He created. So, perhaps with that in mind, the dinosaurs were created so that eons later, mankind would be able to use their “remains” for our purposes.

Just a thought…

 

[buffalo]

If you’re checking fossil dates that could be many millions of years old, why would you use a method that’s only accurate to about 60,000 years?

Bear in mind that Mitochondrial Eve is not the original female ancestor (and hence couple, as she obviously had a partner), but the most recent common ancestor.

The finding is what is important. The fossils came in at 20-30000 years well withing the 60000 year limit. These findings have to be reconciled along with the soft tissue findings.

 

[Bradski]

The finding is what is important. The fossils came in at 20-30000 years well withing the 60000 year limit. These findings have to be reconciled along with the soft tissue findings.

Soft tissues from dinos? I can’t keep meat in my freezer more than a couple of months.

Do you have some further info on this T Rex T-bone?

 

[edwest2]

If you’re checking fossil dates that could be many millions of years old, why would you use a method that’s only accurate to about 60,000 years?

Bear in mind that Mitochondrial Eve is not the original female ancestor (and hence couple, as she obviously had a partner), but the most recent common ancestor.

Why does this matter? Why do you find this important? God can bend all the scientific rules at any time, and make miracles happen. Pope John Paul II is one miracle away from sainthood.

Peace,
Ed

 

[buffalo]

Soft tissues from dinos? I can’t keep meat in my freezer more than a couple of months.

Do you have some further info on this T Rex T-bone?

There have been other soft tissue finds:

Fresh Fossil Ink at 160 million years
70 million mosasaur soft tissue
Hadrosaur soft tissue

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Well dinosaur fossil round here (The Badlands of Alberta) date back 65 million years and longer.

We would have to wait 65 million years more to validate and recreate this theory… Of course under the same conditions of those 65 million years… wait! We don’t have those same exact conditions

 

[buffalo]

Well dinosaur fossil round here (The Badlands of Alberta) date back 65 million years and longer.

They are dated by the rocks they are found in. Date the fossils not the rocks.