Diocesan vs religious priesthood

  • Thread starter Thread starter vitejose
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
V

vitejose

Guest
Hello CAF friends,

I am increasingly feeling called to the priesthood. I am hoping to begin meeting with a spiritual director very soon as well as begin corresponding with vocations directors (currently considering the Dominicans and possibly the Jesuits). In the meantime, however, could you all possibly help me get a better idea of the differences between life as a diocesan/secular priest vs that of a priest in a religious institute? Obviously it will vary depending on the particular community’s charism, but are there some more universal differences? Links to resources are also appreciated!

Thanks!
 
A huge difference is that Dominicans and Jesuits take a vow of poverty, and are not allowed to own any property. They don’t receive a paycheck. Diocesan priests don’t take such a vow, receive a paycheck, and can own property.
 
Thanks, @(name removed by moderator).

@GordonP, this is exactly the sort of thing I’m thinking about. Could you possibly elucidate a bit more on the practical terms of a vow of poverty? Do diocesan priests have to plan for retirement in the same way?
 
It would be better if you contact the orders and the diocese where you’re thinking about serving, and talk to the vocations directors or staff there.
 
If there are priests in the local parishes that belong to a religious order then go to Mass in that parish and see if you can have a short chat with the priest after Mass and if you want to talk longer then set up an appointment. Just because you didn’t feel connected to one order doesn’t mean that you have a calling to be a diocesan priest. The religious orders are very different as some have a passion working with the poor and vulnerable while others have a love of teaching and researching and everything in between.

What I have heard from several spiritual directors (who are priests/deacons) are that for a guy it is pretty simple. They start at the seminary and then it is solved during that time if the guy has a calling to religious life or as a diocesan priest. The seminarians will have individual talks with a spiritual director regularly. There will be visits and retreats at religious houses and some of the teachers belong to religious orders. There will be classes on the different religious orders and they will appear in church history etc. It is common for a guy to study a couple of years and then be clear that he is called to religious life. For a woman it is tuffer as she has to visit different orders until she and the order find each other.
 
HeDa said:
What I have heard from several spiritual directors (who are priests/deacons) are that for a guy it is pretty simple. They start at the seminary and then it is solved during that time if the guy has a calling to religious life or as a diocesan priest. The seminarians will have individual talks with a spiritual director regularly. There will be visits and retreats at religious houses and some of the teachers belong to religious orders. There will be classes on the different religious orders and they will appear in church history etc. It is common for a guy to study a couple of years and then be clear that he is called to religious life.
Click to expand...
While this happens, and even ordained priests can become religious or leave the order for a diocese, it’s generally not the norm.

Religious priests are members of their order first and foremost. Most would say that their priesthood is a vocation within a vocation, and their membership in the order is their primary vocation. As a religious priest they may have a parish, or do chaplaincy work, or they may do a job a non-ordained friar/brother/monk could do, like teach, be a nurse, or run their community’s assisted living facility and manage the care of the senior friars/monks. The Ordinary for the religious is the provincial or abbot, not the local bishop, so the structure is different. And each order will be structured a little differently as well or governed in their own tradition.

As far as retirement goes, the Order provides, but sometimes that includes a pension or retirement one may have earned from a ministry (career) as a professor, a pastor, social worker, or hospital / military chaplain. The difference being the Order will manage those funds as their constitution and rule prescribe, which for most Orders is not the individual friar/monk. I don’t know what diocesan priests do in their retirement, but in religious life, there isn’t really a “retirement” per se. A religious priest could theoretically “retire” after nearly 30 years in the missions, but then be sent back to school for a counseling degree and spend 10 years as a mental health counselor at a hospital, followed by another 3 years in formation ministry and then serve as a pastor for several years before they “take it easy” and assist at a parish or the rest of their lives or they’re too frail and sick to work. Ministering well into one’s 80’s or as long as physically and mentally capable is not unusual at all. Even those who will say they’re “retired”, really just have a reduced work load, or minister to the community somehow.
… at least in my community, anyway…
 
Last edited:
When Jesus called his disciples he didn’t put in a retirement program. (just a thought)
  1. Do you want to pray the Liturgy of the hours,( many times) by yourself (diocesan) or with other priests and brothers?
  2. Are you willing to move to different states and countries? Religious do this sometimes more than diocesan
  3. Can you handle being alone lots of times? Diocesan
  4. In religious life you are called to be obedient not only to the Bishop but who ever is your superior.
  5. Promise of poverty – community takes care of your needs
  6. Chasity Goes for both vocation - Diocesan or religious
Best to check out different orders and ask questions as well as different diocese and talk to a priest.
 
Priests in a religious institution are more geared towards what ever that institutions main goal is, some focus on teaching for seminaries, some have some kind of product that they make and sell to keep the institution operating, like selling books that they make that are Catholic in nature, or food, soaps , candles etc. While they are still a priest first, they will be given a schedule of sorts on when their day is to say mass. An they have a set schedule to adhere to as well.

Where as your diocesan priest, pretty much sets his own schedule, can take up other interests / hobbies, on top of responsiblities to his parish, answers directly to one bishop and more often than not, does not have to get nickle and dime permission to do basic activities as is needed with in a community or institution.

some communities are more lax with needing permission than others, in needing to do basic things like eating out side of schedule meal times, going off the grounds, visiting family, getting basic health care needs. Having gifts sent to them from family and friends is usually something that is frowned on in communities as well. Because there is usually a vow of poverty that is taken.

Just make sure to take your time, and ask very specific questions to those who are your vocation director or communities you visit, they are not going to just willingly divulge information or tell you about what should seem like basic information that should be told up front.

An just be prepared to have your life scrutinized when you do select which route you want to take when it comes time for interviews an that the interview is not just a nice formality to welcome you into the next step, but that they are looking for a thread to pull an see how far you unwind.
 
Not to be discouraging, but the following thread is an important read…in my opinion at least. It is a link to a resource as you requested. It shows the document used when a priest is laicized. As this has happened maybe 25,000 in the US alone, I’d think it is worth reading for anybody who is seriously thinking about being priest on any level.

I’ll pray for your discernment.
40.png
When a priest is laicized: Vatican Document Catholic Living
I have had friends that have been laicized, and the document is the same regardless of the circumstances. For those that are interested: [image] [image]
Click to expand...
 
OSN said:
Priests in a religious institution are more geared towards what ever that institutions main goal is… While they are still a priest first, they will be given a schedule of sorts on when their day is to say mass. An they have a set schedule to adhere to as well.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. This more for monastic Orders and orders which are focused around a specific apostolate. I know of many Orders, my own included, in which we are generally parish priests. We take up any apostolate which we are given by the bishop of a diocese, but generally that would be identical to that of a diocesan priest in that regard. For most of the non-monastic Orders which predate the creation of Congregations and Institutions following the Council of Trent, the focus is the way of life, not necessarily the work you do.
OSN said:
Where as your diocesan priest, pretty much sets his own schedule, can take up other interests / hobbies …
Click to expand...
Most non-monastic Orders allow their members to set their own schedule with regards to the day outside of a few community obligations like prayers and meals. From my experience, these religious are allowed to have personal hobbies. We live in community and as such, we live communally. If one person has a hobby, it makes them happy, and it does not compromise their religious commitment, then the community oftentimes gladly pays for it. Some of the hobbies of religious I have seen are: fishing, scuba diving, hiking, cross-stitching, painting, writing, skiing, going to plays, and many, many more.
OSN said:
some communities are more lax with needing permission than others…
Click to expand...
Almost all of the non-monastic communities are. If you need to do something like this, you generally just have to tell your superior. To visit family, you do generally need to discuss it with your superior and community first, but that would be the case for anything like a vacation. If you just need to stop in at your parents’ house down the street to help them hang some pictures on the wall, then it would generally just take you telling your superior.
OSN said:
Having gifts sent to them from family and friends is usually something that is frowned on in communities as well. Because there is usually a vow of poverty that is taken.
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s not. The vow of poverty is lived out in different ways by different orders. Some Congregations allow bank accounts, some do not. Even for those who are not allowed to own anything, the gifts given to them are just generally deposited into the community fund and the members of the community just use it in their daily lives. The Vow of Poverty is more applicable to attachment to wealth and goods rather than simply having possessions.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM
 
As part of your discernment, you might consider having your strengths and weaknesses tested. A people person with organizational and administrative skills? That might point you toward the diocese.

Quieter, more introspective, contemplative and obedient? Think religious order.

Each has its stresses. Try living in community, very close to others constantly in charity vs. dealing with financial woes, argumentative parish councils and parishioners who are never happy with your homilies.

A lot of discernment lies ahead, and it may take years and it may become agonizing. But effort expended now, even if unpleasant, will yield both a life, and an eternity of joy.

Prayers ascending.
 
Last edited:
The vow of poverty is very varied from order to order. Some orders give monthly stipends, some don’t allow many of their members to use money, some allow their members to have bank accounts, and others simply allow the members access to the community bank account.

For most Orders founded from the 1400s onward, the vow of poverty is centered towards attachment to money and goods rather than the ability to use them. Both my own Order and the Jesuits ascribe to this view of poverty. We seek to strip ourselves of the need to own and possess. Anything we hold, we hold for the good of the community, both for ourselves and our brothers. For example, in my Order, we are allowed to “own” things like clothes, a computer, a phone, etc., because they are needed for the carrying out of our ministries. Our vow of poverty impels us to view the things we possess as simply things that we use, not as things that are “ours”. We pass them along to other brothers when we do not need them anymore or their need outweighs our own.

Also, just because you have a vow of poverty doesn’t necessarily mean that you will be deprived of anything. The community always provides for your needs.
vitejose said:
Do diocesan priests have to plan for retirement in the same way?
Click to expand...
Yep. 401k, retirement house, insurance, etc. Some dioceses have retired priest homes but others do not. I know many priests who have purchased retirement homes early during their time in the parish so that everything would be payed off by the time they came to retirement. Once retired, they often say masses in the surrounding parishes and use the stipends they receive for the masses to supplement their retirement savings.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM
 
So there is diocesen and religious. Some of the descriptions here would leave me temparementally unqualified for both. Are there any vocations for hermits who want to be alone, take a vow of silence, and spend all the time praying and reading scripture?
 
Last edited:
While “conventional” hermits still exist, I think the easiest way to become something as close is being a monk in the Trappist Order. If I am correct, they value silence and have their own cells like individual apartments.

However, first you must discern this with a Spiritual Director, it’s also about what God is calling you to do, maybe he is calling you to something completely different than a hermit!
 
What you’re asking about you can do now and don’t need to do with anyone else, as the desire to be a hermit (as you say) is neither about priesthood nor religious life. You can simply do that of your own accord. Diocesan priesthood is about service; religious orders to varying degrees are about community. If you want to separate yourself from the world and focus on prayer and study, make your own way and do so. Of course, you’ll still want a priest for Mass, Confession, and I’d strongly recommend spiritual direction.
 
Last edited:
Read “To Save A Thousand Souls” by Fr. Brett Brannon.
 
Are you more the type who is “take charge”, like a diocesan pastor might be. Or are you maybe the kind where living in a group setting is appealing to you?
 
And, of course, there are also the Carthusians.

Meanwhile, keep in mind that hermits also work. They keep gardens, and usually produce something (for example, icons, other artwork, vestments, writing, etc.).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top