Diocese leader speaks out on gay man’s job denial

[frobert]

You are right, most kids nowadays want to be as politically correct as possible, I realize the kids going to catholic schools are supposed to get a religious education, but in reality, they are not separated from the rest of the world, they know what is popular and what is not among other young people, but the fact that they seem to side with the LGBT community should be a major concern, hopefully school admins take notice of this and plan accordingly to ensure future classes are not like this.

I mean, what happens when all these quasi-liberal catholics grow up? Will they decide its best to alter the churches stance on certain topics? This is what we will be dealing with if this does not change.

You are making assumptions about why the students reacted the way they did. I can make assumptions that are reasonable but opposite of yours. Parents, teachers and administrators should sit down with student leaders and share each others concerns. Not considering their concerns and only forcing your own views on them is a recipe for rebellion.

 

[robertmidwest]

This is true, but we should be asking why so many christian schooled young people are siding with whats cool and hip in the secular world? I guess all their past years at a catholic school were all for nothing???

In reality, the school kids themselves SHOULD be the ones creating petitions to have him removed, NOT to keep him…LOL Geez, has everything theyve been taught went in one ear and out the other, or have they also been ‘brainwashed’ by the hip secular world and willing to set their beliefs aside for whats trendy? scary imo., maybe the school admin needs to take a look at this behavior and change some things, because its obvious these kids were led astray at some point.

If he is a good teacher and relates well to the students they will develop an attachment to him. That emotional attachment will then cloud their judgement; especially because they are as young as 14.

 

[mikekle]

If he is a good teacher and relates well to the students they will develop an attachment to him. That emotional attachment will then cloud their judgement; especially because they are as young as 14.

Yes, but should it cloud their position as a catholic, I mean, these kids have been in a catholic school for many years, likely they have been brought up in a catholic home, being taught catholic values, where did we go wrong, that these kids would ‘shed’ their beliefs over something like this? LOL

Id be interested in learning if other catholic school students from other schools would also respond like this, if so, it means somewhere along the lines, something is wrong.

 

[robertmidwest]

Yes, but should it cloud their position as a catholic, I mean, these kids have been in a catholic school for many years, likely they have been brought up in a catholic home, being taught catholic values, where did we go wrong, that these kids would ‘shed’ their beliefs over something like this? LOL

Id be interested in learning if other catholic school students from other schools would also respond like this, if so, it means somewhere along the lines, something is wrong.

I think you have a valid concern that Catholic values and morals are not being taught. My kids all attend Catholic school. It is a very high priority to my wife and I. There are plenty of times we wonder if its not more of a private school than a Catholic school. (On the other hand there are some who want to revert to pre-vatican II days. So there are extremes to watch for on both ends.)

I think more what is going on here is that the kids liked this guy. I doubt he openly talked about his relationship with the other man (or he would have been gone sooner), so the kids didn’t see that aspect of it. Then suddenly he was gone. He was okay for the first … weeks but not now? (I don’t’ know how the sub was, pretty sure it was a long term though) So who are they naturally going to lash out at? The people who got rid of him.

Teaching values is not like programming computer. We can’t put an IF THEN statement into their brain so they automatically respond in situations. People aren’t flow charts.

 

[otjm]

Right. Why didn’t they mention this when he was subbing? Then later after he was offered a full time job it was a problem. Their sloppy practices opened them to a lawsuit and bunch of disgruntled kids.

This seems to be a pattern over and over again–bishops and administrators who think they are above the law.

I think you may be assuming facts not in evidence.

The subbing is an issue, but not knowing any of the facts of the subbing - how it is set up, what sort of qualifications are required, and what processes may be in place - or not in place - we can’t assume anything. From the information provided, they did no learn of the background until during the hiring process.

As to them “Offering him a job”, that is not in evidence either. I tis not at all clear whether they had an opening and advertised it, or had an opening and offered it directly to him; in either case, the information did not surface until the hiring process was well under way.

that does not answer the issue of hiring a sub, but only they can answer that.

As to your accusation that “bishops and administrators who think they are above the law.”, that is not substantiated either. It is far more likely that they have not thought through the processes (e.g. subbing) in order to comply with the law; that is not the same as thinking they are above it.

Nor is stopping a hiring process when information is discovered which contra indicates hiring. that is why there is a process - so information can be obtained to determine whether or not to hire.

 

[robertmidwest]

they did no learn of the background until during the hiring process.

the information did not surface until the hiring process was well under way.

they have not thought through the processes (e.g. subbing) in order to comply with the law; that is not the same as thinking they are above it.

That is my whole point! They are so used to doing things the good ole’ boy way they aren’t up to speed on how to comply with the law.

 

[otjm]

That is my whole point! They are so used to doing things the good ole’ boy way they aren’t up to speed on how to comply with the law.

Bishops have the ultimate responsibility for the rules the diocese has in place concerning personnel. Having said that, bishops are anointed to teach preach and sanctify, not administer HR rules. They hire someone, or a group of someones, to do so. You are calling the bishop a “good ol” boy", which is a character assassination if you do not have proof that he was derelict in his duties.

I am not suggesting that matters could not have been handled differently; but a) we have no information about the process of hiring subs; b) for how long this teacher subbed; or c) any information as to how any other diocese handles such hiring of subs.

There should be no legitimate complaint about the hiring process, for it appears to be working correctly; the question then is what and how subs are or should be chosen.

Calling the bishop a good ol boy over that is bordering on libel and slander, if you want me to be more clear.

Laws come about because there has been a problem, and the new law is to address the problem; generally there are not laws made where there is no perceived problem,

We can use 20/20 hindsight and all say “You should have figured this out”; but that does not mean they were derelict in their duties; it means they didn’t see the problem.

 

[robertmidwest]

b) for how long this teacher subbed

From the first article, he started subbing in Sept '14.

From the second artilce, he received phone call from the school officials terminating his employment “earlier this week”. The article is dated April 9th.

 

[otjm]

From the first article, he started subbing in Sept '14.

From the second artilce, he received phone call from the school officials terminating his employment “earlier this week”. The article is dated April 9th.

Again, we have too little information.

He started subbing in the fall- and how many days did he sub? 1? 10? 25? Often, with subs in public schools, they may sub off and on for the year, and may accumulate more or less time based on the full-time teachers’ absences. If you are presuming that he started September 14th and was full time under a substitute hire, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

I am not trying to defend either him or the school system. I am simply pointing out that we have very little factual evidence of what occurred; and I will refer to the questions in my prior posts.

We don’t know what classes he subbed for, how many days total, or much of anything else. And according to the information in this thread, late in the hiring process they discovered his issue and terminated the hiring process. My questions stand - and until we have answers to them, it is at the very least hazardous to accuse the bishop of dereliction of duty.

 

[robertmidwest]

Again, we have too little information.

He started subbing in the fall- and how many days did he sub? 1? 10? 25? Often, with subs in public schools, they may sub off and on for the year, and may accumulate more or less time based on the full-time teachers’ absences. If you are presuming that he started September 14th and was full time under a substitute hire, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

I am not trying to defend either him or the school system. I am simply pointing out that we have very little factual evidence of what occurred; and I will refer to the questions in my prior posts.

We don’t know what classes he subbed for, how many days total, or much of anything else. And according to the information in this thread, late in the hiring process they discovered his issue and terminated the hiring process. My questions stand - and until we have answers to them, it is at the very least hazardous to accuse the bishop of dereliction of duty.

Please read the article. He started in Sept 2014. He makes the statement that he “walked into the school everyday”.

 

[otjm]

Please read the article. He started in Sept 2014. He makes the statement that he “walked into the school everyday”.

Um hm. his comment is not the record; and whether or not he was there 5 days a week from the start until he applied still does not address the questions I asked: to wit, what was the process of hiring subs, and how did it differ from hiring full time (it obviously did) and what is the process of hiring subs in other schools in this diocese, and what is it in other dioceses?

Were there errors made in the process, or was the process lacking? And if it is / was lacking, how does it compare to other dioceses?

Perhaps you don’t understand what I am asking; you night try reading back over my prior posts. I am not trying to defend the diocese; but neither do I have enough information to call a bishop a “good ol’ boy”.

Neither do you.