Dipping the host in the wine?

[malphono]

No, it didn’t look like these. It looked more like a big round matza. worldofjudaica.com/oyvey/jewish-food/matzah-history/
Thank you.

I’ve seen hosts like that, about the size of an individual frozen pizza. They can be made of white or wheat flour, and aside from the size, are similar to “normal” hosts, albeit a bit thicker. The problem with them is the size. Because they’re baked crisp, (like Ashkenazi matzoh), they do tend to shatter, or at least not break cleanly, and produce a lot of crumbs (more like crumb-dust) when broken (again, like Ashkenazi matzoh).

Of course, considering all the other abuses described as going on in that chapel, it’s also possible that someone went to the local supermarket, got a box of round “tea matzoh” and used that. One way to tell is the presence of a lot of tiny holes on the surface (from the baking iron).

 

[centurionguard]

There are many reasons why a parish might chose intinction and it doesn’t mean the reasons are financial.

I used to attend daily Mass at a parish where intinction was the normal way of distributing Communion. The priest used an intinction set and no EMHCs. :thumbs up:

Using intinction requires a smaller amount of wine be consecrated. This may be desirable when the number of communicants varies greatly or is unpredictable.

Also, not every country has the indult for Communion in the hand. Intinction is a very efficient manner of distributing Communion under both species when everyone is already receiving on the tongue anyway.

And some priests and others just like the idea of consuming both species at the same time rather than sequencially.

I suppose the way the consecrated Body and Blood is distributed varies in preference from individual, but ultimately its up the the priest himself under the law of the Church.

But as for me perhaps I’m a more traditional and archaic as judged by some in my preferences.I like how Intinction is described under Redemptionis Sacramentum. Its just that I haven’t seen this in my Archdiocese whether going to French or English Mass since the early 1980’s. Mind you I have seen liturgical abuses in this area also with the faithful being allowed to Dip their Hosts in the consecrated wine, which is a No no.

And by the same token as Intinction prescribed under Redemptionis Sacramentum, I too wouldn"t mind receiving Intinction and seeing (“No”) EMHC’s as a distraction. :

Of course a Catholic can opt to receive the Eucharist on the tongue which is valid.

Just reminiscing older times gone past into oblivion but
its been a long time since I’ve seen Altar boys use hand-held Patens to catch the consecrated crumbs of the precious Hosts given on the tongue or by Intinction.

Peace
Chris

 

[tsering]

Just reminiscing older times gone past into oblivion but
its been a long time since I’ve seen Altar boys use hand-held Patens to catch the consecrated crumbs of the precious Hosts given on the tongue or by Intinction.

I think I saw this done on EWTN.

Peace

 

[jilly4ski]

I know. I don’t get out of class until 6:30 pm on every other Sunday. Saturday is out too, as I’m in class until 6:30 pm also. I just found out last night though that the college in my town (Cortland) has a chapel that our priest holds Mass at 8:00 pm on Sundays - I think I will try to make it to that one.

Peace

Ick, that is no good, glad you found another place to try.

I actually haven’t been to LeMoyne. (I go to Syracuse University for graduate school), but one of the part time associates at the Cathedral is a Jesuit from LeMoyne, and lets just say I am not surprised. I also attended a ‘catholic in name only’ college myself, and have been around the block so to speak in regards to liturgical abuse in the university setting.

 

[centurionguard]

I think I saw this done on EWTN.

Peace

Yes they do use altar boy Patens on EWTN.
I love watching Masses said on EWTN.

I have talk to some American Catholic clergy that use Patens all the time.

I suppose its where you live demographically with much larger parish congregations.
But also it reflects most often on Parish Priests and Bishops who are more Traditional.

But by Traditional I’m not necessarily speaking about those Catholics devoted to the TLM.

Many symbolic meaningful customs items used before Pre-Vatican have eroded over time and are seen as non-essential or overly superfluous and have just plainly lost meaning.

But heck what do I know when beautiful gold plated chalices and ciboriums get replaced by crystal and no Paten is never even used with the Chalice at Mass.

Oh well; C’est la vie. I’m just glad there are some Church’s that hold true to some tradition.

Peace
Chris

 

[PJM]

=tsering;7591617]Every other Sunday I go to a chapel in the evening at a local Jesuit college because I’m required to attend school every other Sunday morning. I often see people dipping the host in the wine during communion - I don’t see this at my regular church. Is this normal?

This was at the same mass where a female campus minister (not a deacon or priest) was asked to preach the homily.

Peace

NO!

WHY? Because it is TOO EASY to profane our God by driping His Precious Blood. The Norm remains: Host Only, with an granted Indult for receiving under BOTH Species.

The ENTIRE CHRIST is FULLY PRESENT in the Host Alone; indeed in every segment of th Host.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Aramis]

No one was dipping except the laity. The priest consecrated the host (a large 10 inches in diameter whole wheat wafer) and then broke it into pieces while crumbs flew all over the altar. The pieces are what he handed out to the laity. Some people were then taking these pieces and dipping them in the wine.

My next question is, was the host made of valid matter? And moreover is it okay for the priest to break it into small pieces and crumbs?

THe priest may consecrate a large host and divide it for distribution. He should not be doing so if there are large numbers nor if it results in too many crumbs, unless he and the deacon are willing to pick up and consume each crumb.

At daily masses in Eagle River (AK), if the crowd is small, the priest will sometimes use a single 8" host. The ones used there are pre-scored: an inner ring scored in 8, and an outer ring scored in 24 pieces. The priest usually breaks it low over the large (15" diameter) bowl-patten.

Likewise, after a week, the 8" host used for adoration is swapped for a new one, broken into it’s 32 pieces, and shared. (Tuesdays, usually, if it’s not changed since last summer.)

 

[mangy_dog]

This is terrible,

• Intinction by the laity
• Female protestant ministers saying the homily at mass
• Questiionable substance for consecration
• Particles flying everywhere

To the priest and the laity in participation these may seem like trivial or even non issues. It would be evidence that there is a de-sensitization to what is and what isn’t an abuse.

Tell the priest in charge and if he looks at you like you have a paper head, don’t loose your cool - thank him for his time and then contact the local bishop.

Time is of the essence. Considering what has transpired thus far…who knows what is next.

 

[centurionguard]

This is terrible,

• Intinction by the laity
• Female protestant ministers saying the homily at mass
• Questionable substance for consecration
• Particles flying everywhere

To the priest and the laity in participation these may seem like trivial or even non issues. It would be evidence that there is a desensitization to what is and what isn’t an abuse.

Tell the priest in charge and if he looks at you like you have a paper head, don’t loose your cool - thank him for his time and then contact the local bishop.

Time is of the essence. Considering what has transpired thus far…who knows what is next.

I’ll give you an A+ for the good advice but what if politely and tactfully talking to the priest and bishop still leaves you looking like a paper head? Believe me; I’m not the only one who feels that liturgical abuses these days falls on deaf ears.

Sometimes sending a letter to the Nuncio gets no appreciable notice or possibly finds its way in a waste basket. Am I exaggerating here. NO!
If the Nuncio is sending a reprimand, investigation, or whatever, nothing changes.

Most times I think many Catholic are too fearful to say anything. You know the type (“Go Alone To Get Alone”) (“Don’t Rock The Proverbial Boat”). Mean while everything in left field is running just smooth!

I think sometimes we Catholics are meant to suffer for our Faith in more ways than obvious.

Count yourself very Blessed and don’t be complacent if your in a Church where everything liturgical is as it should be.

Peace
Chris

 

[mangy_dog]

I’ll give you an A+ for the good advice but what if politely and tactfully talking to the priest and bishop still leaves you looking like a paper head? Believe me; I’m not the only one who feels that liturgical abuses these days falls on deaf ears.

Sometimes sending a letter to the Nuncio gets no appreciable notice or possibly finds its way in a waste basket. Am I exaggerating here. NO!
If the Nuncio is sending a reprimand, investigation, or whatever, nothing changes.

Most times I think many Catholic are too fearful to say anything. You know the type (“Go Alone To Get Alone”) (“Don’t Rock The Proverbial Boat”). Mean while everything in left field is running just smooth!

I think sometimes we Catholics are meant to suffer for our Faith in more ways than obvious.

Peace
Chris

You are right Chis,

I’m excercising “charitable constraint” in my statements but, I’m with you on this.

If it were me, I would talk to the laity that is participating of the intinction - put a bug in their ear and possibly tell the priest, " father, this is not right, it is not correct"…for starters.

The place where I go to mass, people look at me like a “watchdog”- I don’t mind. Consequently, people do things the right way and, even if the priest says, “oh it’s ok” - I say no father this is not correct. It usually turns out well - even if the priest insists, I don’t hide my frustration. I don’t go fist-to-cuff but, I end the conversation with something like, " I hear you father, and I still think its wrong." Then I leave. Sometimes it works other times it doesn’t.
But it does preclude from other things happening without some feedback.

Thanks, Chris

mangy dog

 

[Aramis]

Redemptoris Sacramentum instructs that all have a duty to do all in their power to protect the mass; it also notes that all abuses should be reported to the bishop.