Disaffected Mormon Looking for Answers

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Ha, I need to edit my posts better. Jodi I say “you were my wife”. My bad, lol! It should have been “you were like my wife”.
 
NewSeeker,

I am SO GLAD you are already reading up on the books we suggested! I have been checking this thread often to see how you are coming along. Keep us updated! Praying for you and your wife! :byzsoc:
 
I know this might be an enormous and difficult leap, and you might not be ready yet, but I strongly suggest that you ask for the Blessed Mother’s intercession for your journey, and your whole family. I know the first time I prayed to Mary I was extremely worried that I was offending God and committing blasphemy. It’s a hard thing to start, but her prayers are invaluable. I think I said, “I’m sorry if this is wrong, but Mary, will you please pray for me, so I know if I should become Catholic?”

When Scott and Kimberly were fighting a lot about doctrinal issues, he was advised to 'lay off the theology and amp up the romance." Your wife needs to know you love her, even if you’re fighting.

God bless you, and keep us updated.
 
NewSeeker,

I second all of the advice you have received here. I do want to emphasize the absolute necessity of being a stronger and better husband and father. Your wife is devastated by what she sees as the loss of priestly blessings in her home. You must show her that Catholic men are real men. They can be a blessing to their wives without actually giving them a “priesthood” blessing. Pray for the authentic priesthood who traces their authority all the way back to the Apostles.

Speaking of prayer. Really learn and appreciate the sign of the cross. Open and close your prayers with it. In the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit, Amen. Emphasize the “ands.” It will help you to know the Real Trinity and be able to let go of, “andIsaythesethingsinthenameofJesusChristAmen.” If all else fails, pray just to Jesus. Say, “Jesus, I trust you. Jesus I worship you. Jesus, I adore you.” Learn and pray the rote prayers. Our Father; Hail Mary; Glory Be; Apostles Creed; Nicene Creed; etc… Those prayers by rote are so helpful because they help us get to a prayerful state during those times that spontaneous prayer seems fake or forced. While there is nothing wrong with the spontaneous prayer type found in LDS, it is not the only way to pray.

God bless you in your journey! :signofcross:
 
this is the advice I would give if you came to me and asked about RCIA. Continue to support your wife and participate in all Mormon activities that do not violate your conscience. I believe she made a promise if there was temple marriage to raise the children Mormon, and you cannot ask her to violate her conscience on that.

In the meantime, you are obligated to respond to the call of the Holy Spirit to investigate the Truth. That obligation comes before even your marriage obligation. Begin with an Inquiry class at a Catholic parish that fits your schedule, you may have to call around. Some parishes because of practical reasons don’t do this year round and formal sessions will begin in the fall. Until then, pick up Catholicism for Dummies (not Idiots guide, not the CCC you need help with that one). When you can attend Catholic Mass as often as you can.
After inquiry, if you want to start RCIA do so, but you do not have to participate in any rites (welcoming etc) until you feel ready. That takes years for some people so don’t sweat it.

Right now you have questions and deserve answers, and this is the best formal way to get that. Your RCIA class will have a scriptural approach. For Mormons, their biggest hurdle is usually that of authority and revelation, so you need help in answering questions on that. You could read the Adult Catholic Catechism, which presents doctrine in a formal way, but I suggest before you begin a formal doctrinal study, you get answers to all you questions on authority, what is really Divine Revelation, and what is of human origin, what is Sacred Tradition, how Scripture was compiled etc.
 
Hello, yes I am reading Rome Sweet Home and am nearly done. I just finished Scott’s account of Kimberly’s baptism at Easter Vigil. What a story! And what a harrowing journey they went on. Those of you who recommended the book were right - it’s very helpful. I’ve been like Scott in the sense that my spiritual choices have brought my wife pain since, as you say so astutely LittleDeb, my wife is very disappointed and sad that I can’t baptize my sons and give them priesthood blessings in good conscience. But unlike Scott, for the past 8 years (since my eldest was born) I’ve been stuck in this horrible limbo between Mormonism, Catholicism, Buddhism, and Agnosticsm and have been so stuck that I haven’t even been able to pray with my wife or participate with her in any sort of bible study with the boys. I mentioned earlier that it’s so hard for me to participate in “mormony” things without mental distress, and that goes for prayer (“inthenameofjesuschristamen” ad infinitum) and scripture study, since naturally when we discuss religious issues with our sons my wife will use Mormon idioms to express teachings and beliefs. I do need to pray for strength to not be so pig headed about that so I can support my wife as she teaches our sons moral principles. But as I’ve said it’s hard for me to pray. Reading Rome Sweet Home is very helpful. You’re right, I need to quit trying to convince my wife that there’s something better than the Mormon church out there and just amp up the romance. I definitely need to be more loving and help my wife fulfill the mandates of her conscience while I pursue this path toward the RCIA, so I can follow my own conscience.

Thank you for all of the wonderful prayer advice. Yes, it is quite a step to even think about asking Mary for help - Mormons consider Catholics to be idolaters - but I’ve examined the Catholic Church’s explanations for this and am satisfied that this is something I can do (it’s like asking my own mom to pray for me. Mary just happened to live on earth 2000 years ago and is now living with God and is God’s own mother. Who better to ask to put in a good word on my behalf?). The problem is how does one go about do that? A friend has offered to send me a rosary and I look forward to that, but then again I’m pretty clueless. The only thing I know about the Rosary is it has something to with Mary and the only time I’ve ever seen it used was in a movie - Gene Hackman was praying the Rosary asking God to send him a friend and Young Frankenstein came bursting through the door. LOL. But I do want to pray. And praying rote prayers to help create a prayerful state is something I think I can do now. Actually, that’s an approach to rote prayers I’d never considered. Thanks for that!
 
Regarding revelation and lines of authority, it’s so ironic, but growing up in Mormonism there’s a famous story that’s always related where a catholic bishop told a mormon apostle that there are only two viable options in Christianity: the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church. The protestants come from the Catholics and if Catholic authority is wrong, and there was a total apostasy as Mormons say, then the protestants fall with Catholicism and there needed to be a restoration of the true church through someone like Joseph Smith. But if there is a valid line of succession from Peter to Pope Benedict then the protestants are still wrong and so are the Mormons. It’s actually a nice inescapable, logical package, assuming Jesus did establish a church (I believe he did) and gave his authority (priesthood) to Peter (which I also believe he did). It then comes down whether there is sufficient evidence of a total apostasy (of which there is none). For these reasons I have less difficulty with the concepts of revelation and lines of authority than I do with Marianism and all of the statues and iconography Catholics supposedly pray to. Like many protestans, Mormons consider all of this to be vestiges of paganism and contrary to the command not to create any graven images.

But again, over the years I’ve studied the reasons for these things in Catholicism and they no longer bother me like they once did. Although it’s pained my wife, I suppose my periodic bouts of agnosticism/atheism have caused me to jettison all presuppositions regarding what is true in religion and I’ve had to build things from the ground up, which I’ve done through close reading of scripture (both Christian and non-Christian), Catholic and Mormon apologetics, writings of the Church Fathers, and books on Church history. I also had to find reasons to believe that God was real. C.S. Lewis was absolutely critical for helping me in this regard. And interestingly enough, so was Richard Dawkins! Despite his eloquent, reasoned defense of the Blind Watchmaker concept, there is still no answer from the hard sciences for the origin of consciousness and morality. It’s been a long, hard process, but through all of this (a process that’s taken almost 15 years) I’ve felt the growing call to Catholicism.
 
Wow! You have made such huge leaps and bounds in the past few days!

About the rosary, try this. This helps a lot for concentrating on the prayers and learning them at the same time. People can email in and ask for prayer intentions as well.
 
Thanks for the rosary link StratusRose. I’ll definitely check it out. Regarding my progress, I’ve tried to communicate that over the years I’ve examined religion and theology pretty intensively and have (surprisingly to a former very active Mormon) found myself feeling pulled strongly to attend RCIA. So in terms of what has happened in the past couple of days, two things come to mind: one, never before have I been more determined to take the RCIA step than now; and two, a number of key Catholic teachings that I’ve struggled with have now become intelligible and reasonable. Some things have just fallen into place quite suddenly. I’m sure part of it is my desire for resolution and to find God, and that has given me a determination I’ve formerly lacked as well as a willingness to take some things on faith. But due to the kind words of people on this forum and the help of a couple of new friends who have been chatting with me off-forum, many doctrinal and theological puzzle pieces that have been floating about in my brain as a result of my research have come together and are beginning to fit in a comprehensible way. And the picture they form is very compelling and appealing. Never in a million years did I think I would I have ever felt comfortable even thinking of asking Mary for intercession (I’m still not quite ready for that, but at least I’m closer than I ever have been and the idea makes sense at last, both rationally and scripturally. I think all that’s missing is the will to make the attempt since it would be a big step given where I come from).

I’m actually quite excited about this process and outcome, and am amazed at how quickly the needed answers have been coming. Really, things have just gelled suddenly in many key points. Visiting to this forum has been a great catalyst for change. I hope I can stay the course. I know that in the early stages euphoria can be overwhelming, but the satisfaction and determination can be fleeting as life’s problems interfere. That’s why I’m grateful for this online community. I don’t have an offline community to support me at the moment.
 
Hi NewSeeker;

I’d not worry too much about the discomfort regarding Mary. It is not necessary to have a strong emotional devotion to Mary to be Catholic. Frankly, I have stronger ties to other saints than Mary; it is no “dis-honor” to her, or God, its simply the way it is. You’ll find someone who personally inspires you or not, and it doesn’t have to be Mary.

The important part is simply moving past the bias you’ve been taught until now and truely understand the theology of what the Catholic Church actually teaches on the subject. Fortuneately, in the Catholic Church, you have authoritative sources of what the Church actually teaches!

Not suprisingly, I’d echo the advice of others in that you must take it easy and slow with your Wife. You will not convince her. You will have to trust the often repeated (yet seldom practiced) maxim that it is the Holy Spirit that converts, nothing or no one else. As you have already found, she is going to feel betrayed. The only “apologetic” that I’d recommend is one already mentioned; insist only on that you are following where God is leading you. Also recognize that, even when the two of you do approach the issue “freely”, you will not have the answer to her questions, even if you do. Encourage her to look for the answers herself, but from viable sources. (not a point I learned till after my wife converted herself, btw).

As Jodi’s husband, I have to admit to similar anger issues that you have about the mormons; however those stem from the actions of the local leadership and in SL in how they handled our transitions out of the Church. Jodi doesn’t quite understand why I simply cannot continue to “play nice” with those who treated my family as they did, and largely continue to do (I don’t care if you treat me bad, but to treat my wife as they did…well; GRRR!). As she mentioned elsewhere, she has only one freind remaining from the LDS. At any rate, my “anti-mormon” side actually has to do with my connection to their actions as actually logical consequences to their “doctrines”, not as might be inferred from Jodi’s description, as the usual “Godmakers” or evangelical nonsense. Error begets error, afterall, though I admit my personal “anger” is of my own weakness, and I wish I could offer something more useful than the usual tripe about the healing effectsof Time.

It has gotten easier, but it doesn’t take much to rekindle that particular fire. In Catholic Terms, I’ve found the best therapy on the issue is to “Avoid the near occasion of sin”. This is infinitely easier with my wife having come into the Church as well, but even if your wife holds out longer, it still will become easier to deal with as you get used to the situation. Perhaps God will grant you the Grace of a peace I have not yet been blessed with myself; and there is always the very “Catholic” idea of “offering up your suffering” to God in prayer.

You are certainly in our Prayers.
 
NewSeeker,

You can also speak to Mary in your own words, just as you would speak to your own mother. You can speak to the Lord in your own words too. He calls us friends and has revealed to us everything about himself.

Mary is our mother in the order of grace. She loves each one of us as though we were Jesus, because she knows how much He loves each one of us individually, and what He went through to redeem us.

Oh, I too highly recommend the Rosary. It is meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary that is the focus of the prayer. Saying the Hail Marys is like holding her hand as she walks us through the mysteries.
 
NewSeeker, I am so touched by your sincere search, and with the obvious love and concern you have for your wife.

And I’m also touched by everyone who has shared their conversion stories.

I am a revert to Catholicism. My wife is of a different faith. In her case, Quaker. I understand some of the difficulties you are going through.

All I have to offer is one prayer suggestion to consider. That being to spend time in front of the Blessed Sacrament in Eucharistic Adoration. Just sit in the presence of Our Lord and listen. Just listen.

I’m sure most people here will attest that the answers will come.

I also have a Marion devotion. It’s through Mary that my hunger for the Eucharist has increased. And with that, a growing sense of joy that I haven’t had since I was a young boy. And with that joy it seems to become easier and easier to find our way in our marriage.

I will offer a rosary for you and your wife, as well as for other couples of mixed faiths. I will make it this Thursday when, by tradition, we meditate on the Luminous Mysteries while praying the rosary. These mysteries include the Wedding at Cana. I think that’s appropriate for this intention.

God bless you, brother.
 
NewSeeker: you’ve got some very excellent advice above. I can’t improve on that, especially the one by Deb to be a godly presence in your home.

My take on this is pretty simple: I think we live in a day an age in which a person is either religious or not. Becoming Catholic is nowhere as drastic as becoming agnostic/atheistic/materialistic. Maybe your wife can appreciate this notion. At any rate, it makes me feel much more convivial toward, say, a Methodist or Baptist, etc. Shucks down any anti-Protestant vibe I might have.

Go to RCIA; it’s a nice education whether or not you join the church. Also, have you seen www.exmormon.org? I find this pretty fascinating; have found the Mormon faith fascinating ever since I read Robert Remini’s little biography of Joseph Smith, one of those Penguin lives series. Prior to this, I’d no idea how different the Mormon faith was from, say, Lutheranism, etc.

All the best in Austin!🙂
 
LSK said:
WELCOME - and here’s to hoping you become a member of the Tiber Swim Team - maybe 2008?
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urrrg?! :mad: That’s what those swim team tags mean.

I’m such a dope. I saw those and didn’t even really read the word Tiber. Just thought is was some high school or town’s name.

I even once though, “man, that swimmer really posts alot” Later I realized it wasn’t all one person and figured it was a family that all posted on here or something…and to think I usually think I’m pretty quick 😛
 
I just wanted to say that I’m still praying for you and your family, and I’m so glad that you’re being drawn in the direction that you are, even though it’s hard.

Marian devotion isn’t necessary, but has been encouraged by many of the saints, and can be very helpful. The central Marian prayer is the Hail Mary, “Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.” It’s one of the prayers that often forms a deep, interval rhythm to my day.
 
Smber2c said:
urrrg?! :mad: That’s what those swim team tags mean.

I’m such a dope. I saw those and didn’t even really read the word Tiber. Just thought is was some high school or town’s name.

I even once though, “man, that swimmer really posts alot” Later I realized it wasn’t all one person and figured it was a family that all posted on here or something…and to think I usually think I’m pretty quick 😛
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Me too! I only know about RCIA… Is this an official alternate program?
 
Hi BJRumph! You said “Fortuneately, in the Catholic Church, you have authoritative sources of what the Church actually teaches!” Yes, it’s amazing what you learn about Catholics by asking Catholics. LOL. I’m loving the conversations I’m having on this forum an off-forum with the new friends I’ve made here; I’ve learned so much and it’s enriched the academic studies I’ve conducted and am conducting. I look forward to beginning the RCIA process and really getting the ball rolling. In the immediate future I need to begin attending Mass. This will happen very soon. It might be a week or so since my wife works weekend nights overnight and doesn’t get home on Sunday mornings until after 9am and that pretty much rules out early morning Mass on Sundays. And the rest of the morning is taken up by the Mormon church service she likes going to (and which I help her with since our boys are young and energetic). But this will change. She starts a new job on 6/25, a regular full-time job M-F 9-5. Interestingly enough, she finalized the job offer this past week - the same time I finally woke up one morning determined to enter the RCIA and try to attend Mass. And now she won’t be working Sat nights anymore and I can attend the early morning Mass. This will be the first time in nearly 4 years that I’ll actually be able to slip away alone for an hour or so on Sunday mornings. Go figure. It’s too serendipitous to be anything other than God intervening in our lives. That’s how I choose to look at it. So the plan for now is to attend Mass and be very loving, patient and kind at home, or at least try; I still have anger issues and can so easily slip into the old habitual mad husband mode. I need God’s help to change and I realize I must rely on him to do so. And to do that I need to pray. A lot. You’ve all helped me so much to find a way to do this. I pray that I will change, that my wife will see the change as something good, and that this will bring her peace.

Dorothy, I have a good friend who has offered to send me a rosary and I’ll be talking to Mary for the first time using it very soon. I actually said a piece of the Hail Mary a couple of times earlier today (the beginning, the only part I can remember). Man, I’m still kind of dumbfounded that I did that. But it felt so right and it brought me an immense feeling of peace. I’m not nearly as uncomfortable with the idea of talking to Mary (or other saints) as I once was. I think all of my questions about that have been answered and doubts have been resolved. And that was a huge obstacle.
 
Now regarding Eucharistic Adoration (hi Utica!), I first heard about that last year when meeting with the deacon at my local parish church. I had no idea Catholics did that but let me tell you a story. After speaking with the deacon he gave me a tour of the church and after showing me the santuary he pointed out the red light in the corner, where I could see some women praying in a small room. He explained that when that light is lit (and it was) that God is present since the Host, blest and consecrated, is in there. I can’t describe it, but a feeling of awe, amazement, maybe a bit of jealousy if that makes sense, and wonder overtook me. I think I even felt a chill run my my spine. Now remember, I didn’t know that Catholics did that and I don’t know what my response would have been if I hadn’t already studied about the significance of the Eucharist and researched what Catholics really believed about transubstantiation. It also helped that I’d recently read John 6. The idea that God actually became bodily present in the bread and wine once it was consecrated was something I’d been pondering for quite a while, and had actually become awed by (if it was actually true!) prior to touring the church. So I think I was prepared (it must have been by God) for being introduced to Eucharistic Adoration when it happened. I must admit it’s hard for me to think that the bread and wine can be both bread and wine and God at the same time. But I guess that’s one of those mysteries I keep hearing about. I’m reading Frank Sheed’s Theology and Sanity right now and I am in the middle of the section on sacred mysteries so thinking about participating in Eucharistic Adoration right now is good timing. But even so, this will be something I need to think and pray deeply about. I used to think, like all good Mormons, that God and Jesus are seperate beings altogether, have glorified bodies of flesh and bone, and that God the Father was once a man like me but is now resurrected and perfected (yes, that’s what Mormons believe). I think the vestiges of my old Mormon belief may be affecting me somewhat. But really, all I have to do is think back to what I experienced when being introduced to Eucharistic Adoration for the first time last year and go with that. I truly did feel something quite amazing and I long to finally pray in God’s presence and experience Him. First will come Mass, then the rosary. I’ll see how that goes. After that will come time spent in front of the Consecrated Host. But I need to take it slow, one baby step at a time since I am so new to Catholicism. And Utica, thank you so much for praying for me on Thursday! I don’t know what to say. I also don’t know what to say to all of you who are praying for me and my family. Thank you! I am humbled and awed by such charity.

Finally, Maxply, I like how you put Catholicism up agains agnosticsm/atheism/materialism in your post. I know putting it in those terms will help my wife. She knows my struggles and that I’ve vacillated between those views and Catholicism over the past 4-5 years and I KNOW she would much rather I was a Catholic than an atheist! But even more, she wants me to be a Mormon so I do have a hard road ahead. I have visited www.exmormon.org, but not often. I"ve conducted my own extensive research into Mormon origins and doctrinal development and there isn’t anything on that website I haven’t already found through journals and online archives. Besides, I’ve found it’s often visited by angry, mocking ex-mormons. I don’t want to be that kind of ex-mormon anymore for the sake of my family and my own inner peace. I need God’s love in my life and need to surround myself with love from many sources so I can reduce my own stress and anger. Which is why I came here! I must say eveyone’s concern and advice has been immensely helpful.
 
I just returned from attending Mass. I’m lucky that I work a couple of blocks from the University of Texas Catholic Center where a brief daily Mass is held during my lunch hour. I loved that, before donning his robes and obscuring the fact, the priest was wearing an orange Texas Longhorn cell phone case on his belt. I wonder if pressed where his loyalties would lie? The Church or Longhorn football? Lol.

Seriously, it was my first mass in 7 years and only the third I think I’ve ever attended. It was different this time because since deciding to investigate the Church further by enrolling in the RCIA, it felt different. It was also very intimate, in an upstairs room at the center with about 10 people in attendance. I liked the intimacy very much. I’m still completely clueless about what to do and I admit I felt a bit awkard for it, but I did feel very peaceful and happy I was there. This is another step and it definitely felt like progress. I believe God is leading my on this journey and I look forward, if all goes well, to being able to commune with Him and with the Church. I just wanted to give you all an update.
 
NewSeeker said:
I just returned from attending Mass. I’m lucky that I work a couple of blocks from the University of Texas Catholic Center where a brief daily Mass is held during my lunch hour. I loved that, before donning his robes and obscuring the fact, the priest was wearing an orange Texas Longhorn cell phone case on his belt. I wonder if pressed where his loyalties would lie? The Church or Longhorn football? Lol.

Seriously, it was my first mass in 7 years and only the third I think I’ve ever attended. It was different this time because since deciding to investigate the Church further by enrolling in the RCIA, it felt different. It was also very intimate, in an upstairs room at the center with about 10 people in attendance. I liked the intimacy very much. I’m still completely clueless about what to do and I admit I felt a bit awkard for it, but I did feel very peaceful and happy I was there. This is another step and it definitely felt like progress. I believe God is leading my on this journey and I look forward, if all goes well, to being able to commune with Him and with the Church. I just wanted to give you all an update.
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So very wonderful!! I am all choked up.

I remember when my husband was first attending with me. He felt clueless too. The great part is that goes away in a fairly short time. Daily Mass is such a blessing when you can go. It is also shorter and less crowded. Keep going as often as possible! Things will become second nature before you even realize it.

God bless you!

Oh and it has to be the Church. Note he covered the Longhorns with his vestments. 😃
 
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