Disagreement with a retreat leader. Advice please

[mountee]

His judgmet was that he said they were weird. That’s why the woman was offended. Its offensive to call someone weird. Didn’t you read my post, that you ask your question?

I agree that based on what the OP stated was said, the comment about weird practices could be seen as judgmental by some people even if it wasn’t meant to be. It is important to measure our words carefully when we discuss subjects like what others believe and practice from other faiths. I also have worked with several Mormons that I really admired and respected and I would never want them to feel judged by me over our faith differences.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I believe the comment was about “weird” doctrines not weird people. Comapared to " mainstream" protestantism and Catholicism their doctrines do appear decidedly different. This is a factual statement and depending on the way it was delivered does not appear disparaging.
I’m sure that Mormons might view Catholic doctrines as different possibly even “weird” compared to their beliefs. That being said, “weird” is likely not the best choice of words.

To insult a people’s faith is to insult the people. To insult a doctrine is to insult a person’s faith. Weird is a word of disgust. If I’m weirded out by something then I’m am disgusted by it in some way. *Use whatever similar word you want for disgust. Nonetheless, it is a word of revulsion and unbecoming of a Christian attitude.

 

[LightBound]

I can’t get angry because I’m on Lithium. Anyone who knows anything about Lithium knows that you can’t get angry on it.

My point is take a look in the mirror sometime. You may see an image that you cannot bear to see.

Okay, fair enough, But have you had your Lithium level checked lately? You appear to be making a bigger deal out of this than is needed. The retreat leader perceived the OP called the Mormon’s weird, instead of pointing out their doctrines are weird (and getting your own planet when you die IS weird). It’s over, it’s done. Perhaps the only thing the OP could’ve said is “I have no doubt many of them are very nice people, but some of their doctrines and beliefs are far different and incompatible with Catholicism and Christianity in general”.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Do you not believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church?

I believe the Catholic Church is the True Church. However, I do not believe in a human being with Omniscience, neither do I believe in a Church with Omniscience. The only way to be adamant in your beliefs is to know all the truth, of which the Church lacks. So any belief system is fair at best. Compare any two belief systems to the Absolute truth and you will find they both lack pretty much the same amount.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Highlighting mine.

The OP never said they are weird people. Go back and read the post again. He said that their doctrines are weird, not that ***they ***are.

It would help if you did not jump to conclusions and pass judgment based on false assertions. Perhaps you should “learn to tame your tongue (or your typing fingers) for next time.” I assume you are willing to “take a little criticism” since you insist that the OP do so.

You insult someone’s doctrines and you insult them. Wouldn’t you be insulted if your faith was insulted? Say the Virgin Mary was insulted, you wouldn’t feel any indignation; and therefore, be insulted yourself?

It would help if you thought before you spoke since my assertions are logically and reasonably correct.

 

[maryjk]

Okay, fair enough, But have you had your Lithium level checked lately? You appear to be making a bigger deal out of this than is needed. The retreat leader perceived the OP called the Mormon’s weird, instead of pointing out their doctrines are weird (and getting your own planet when you die IS weird). It’s over, it’s done. Perhaps the only thing the OP could’ve said is “I have no doubt many of them are very nice people, but some of their doctrines and beliefs are far different and incompatible with Catholicism and Christianity in general”.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

I agree that based on what the OP stated was said, the comment about weird practices could be seen as judgmental by some people even if it wasn’t meant to be. It is important to measure our words carefully when we discuss subjects like what others believe and practice from other faiths. I also have worked with several Mormons that I really admired and respected and I would never want them to feel judged by me over our faith differences.

It was meant to be judgmental because judgment is in the OP’s mouth. It could have been a slip of the tongue; but it was what was in his heart that spoke. He speaks with an unclean mouth; whether he knows it or not. The intent in his heart, which was hidden, was to diminish the Mormons; in so that he could elevate himself, in what he believes. His mouth testifies of it. It doesn’t matter if it was a slight because it is from the overflow of his heart that he speaks evil.

 

[kmuestwin]

It was meant to be judgmental because judgment is in the OP’s mouth. It could have been a slip of the tongue; but it was what was in his heart that spoke. He speaks with an unclean mouth; whether he knows it or not. The intent in his heart, which was hidden, was to diminish the Mormons; in so that he could elevate himself, in what he believes. His mouth testifies of it. It doesn’t matter if it was a slight because it is from the overflow of his heart that he speaks evil.

I only meant weird as in abnormal or different. I could have chosen the word strange or extreme.

I didn’t use the word in a derogatory manner. You are mistaken.

Your heated response did help me understand how someone could have misunderstood what I was saying. Thank you.

 

[robwar]

Do you believe in the Exact Truth, the exact truth? Do you know everything there is to know about truth? Compared to the Absolute Truth, don’t your beliefs seem wrong? Then how can you judge a people that knows as little as you do?

I am not sure what you driving at. There is absolute and exact truth but that is not what is being discussed here. If you don’t believe in that, maybe you should start a thread with that question. The OP compared at a retreat what Mormons believe to what the Catholic Church teaches. In fact, Mormons are not considered Christian by most Protestants either. Someone over reacted because they have Mormon friends. There is nothing wrong with having Mormon friends but comparing beliefs and stating what differences there are should be done and is not to be confused with bashing Mormons as people.

 

[maryjk]

I only meant weird as in abnormal or different. I could have chosen the word strange or extreme.

I didn’t use the word in a derogatory manner. You are mistaken.

Of course you didn’t. I am not really sure why Sacred_Heart has chosen to go off of the rails at you.

Your heated response did help me understand how someone could have misunderstood what I was saying. Thank you.

Yes, there are people way out in left field. Maybe the person you were speaking to was.

 

[dshix]

It was meant to be judgmental because judgment is in the OP’s mouth. It could have been a slip of the tongue; but it was what was in his heart that spoke. He speaks with an unclean mouth; whether he knows it or not. The intent in his heart, which was hidden, was to diminish the Mormons; in so that he could elevate himself, in what he believes. His mouth testifies of it. It doesn’t matter if it was a slight because it is from the overflow of his heart that he speaks evil.

Sacred Heart,

I’m not sure what to say to this. I’m not sure if you are a troll (unlikely based on your post count) or if you genuinely believe that the OP did an insensible and cruel statement.

“Unclean mouth?” “Diminish the Mormons?” “Elevate himself?”

You are construing a simple and uncomplicated matter into a heated discussion, whether your claim as to Lithium is true or not. Please stop. You are turning a simple question by the OP, (how could have managed it better) into an accusation campaign against him.

 

[johnnyc176]

I was at a retreat with some Catholic college students and during some downtime a friend asked what Mormons believe.

I responded that they deny the trinity, have an incorrect form of baptism, and have some very strange views on the afterlife. I then said, “In relation to other Protestant sects, they have some of the weirdest doctrines.”

That drew a disgusted look from the woman that ran the retreat and this statement, “I have Morman friends and they are some of the best people ever. They don’t do anything on Sundays and are dedicated to their family.”

I ended the confrontation by saying, “The Catholic Church doesn’t consider their beliefs Christian.”

in response I was told, “They are good people.”

How could I have better handled myself in this situation? I could have explained the difference between being a Christian and being a good person but I didn’t think it was appropriate. I didn’t want to make this woman feel disrespected in front of a group of young people but I wanted to make sure that the student asking the question got an honest answer other than, “We’re all friends.” because I feel like that leads to relativism and a lack of true discussion.

What should I have done better? Please give me some advice.

The only thing I see that may be questionable is the comparison to Protestants. Other than that I don’t see that you did anything wrong.

 

[Gorgias]

Is your intent to diminish someone, make them less than by saying, “but…”?

No, it’s to draw a contrast. Mormons exemplify the kind of lifestyle that Christians should lead, but they don’t believe in certain things we consider to be essential to Christian belief.

Is it to elevate your belief system above theirs.

I don’t think so.

You can’t just say, “They are good people and this is what they believe…”?

Perhaps; yet, it would sound odd to say, “Mormons are good solid people, and their belief lacks certain elements crucial to Christian belief.” Using “and” there would draw a correspondence; how would we correspond “good Christian lifestyle” with “lacking certain Christian beliefs”?

I’ve read some texts on counseling that advocate eliminating the word “but” from dialogue (and perhaps replacing it with ‘yet’). However, if I’m trying to draw a distinction, “but” is the appropriate word. But you can disagree, if you wish.

Murder is in your heart when you say “but” because I know its intent–self-justification.

Good thing you know what’s in my heart, so that you can set me straight.

 

[maltmom]

I am very upset right now. I know the OP personally, yes, in real life. When I was brought into the Church he was there for me. We would talk after Mass and other functions. He is a wonderful young man that I am very proud of. I have known him seven months and have never known him to be uncharitable to anyone, even when the same courtesy was not afforded him. I also have never known him to deviate from Church teachings. He has always stood firm on what is right.

No where has he said anything disrespectful of the Mormon people. He, along with the Church disagree with their doctrine. Yes, in the eyes of many, some of their doctrines are weird. Non-Catholics think many of our doctrines are weird. Whether we like that or not it is a fact of life.

 

[dshix]

I am very upset right now. I know the OP personally, yes, in real life. When I was brought into the Church he was there for me. We would talk after Mass and other functions. He is a wonderful young man that I am very proud of. I have known him seven months and have never known him to be uncharitable to anyone, even when the same courtesy was not afforded him. I also have never known him to deviate from Church teachings. He has always stood firm on what is right.

No where has he said anything disrespectful of the Mormon people. He, along with the Church disagree with their doctrine. Yes, in the eyes of many, some of their doctrines are weird. Non-Catholics think many of our doctrines are weird. Whether we like that or not it is a fact of life.

Given what you just said, why are you upset? If I were you, I’d be happy for him.

 

[Highwayhound]

However, if I’m trying to draw a distinction, “but” is the appropriate word. But you can disagree, if you wish.

:tiphat:

 

[sophion]

I ended the confrontation by saying, “The Catholic Church doesn’t consider their beliefs Christian.”

in response I was told, “They are good people.”

What should I have done better? Please give me some advice.

You should have agreed with her:

“Yes they are good people”.

that way you would be telling the truth without compromising your original position. right?

---

its wrong though to accuse their religious beliefs as wierd. for some people finds your religion just as wierd. point is its just a matter of opinion.

 

[LightBound]

It was meant to be judgmental because judgment is in the OP’s mouth. It could have been a slip of the tongue; but it was what was in his heart that spoke. He speaks with an unclean mouth; whether he knows it or not. The intent in his heart, which was hidden, was to diminish the Mormons; in so that he could elevate himself, in what he believes. His mouth testifies of it. It doesn’t matter if it was a slight because it is from the overflow of his heart that he speaks evil.

In all sincerity and concern, PLEASE go get your Lithium levels checked. These posts of yours are uncharacteristic and it’s become worrisome.

 

[maltmom]

Given what you just said, why are you upset? If I were you, I’d be happy for him.

I’m upset b/c on this thread he has been judged and spoken to uncharitably. I guess I should be happy he’s being attacked b/c that means he is speaking the truth and Satan hates that.

 

[lizaanne]

I was at a retreat with some Catholic college students and during some downtime a friend asked what Mormons believe.

I responded that they deny the trinity, have an incorrect form of baptism, and have some very strange views on the afterlife. I then said, “In relation to other Protestant sects, they have some of the weirdest doctrines.”

That drew a disgusted look from the woman that ran the retreat and this statement, “I have Morman friends and they are some of the best people ever. They don’t do anything on Sundays and are dedicated to their family.”

I ended the confrontation by saying, “The Catholic Church doesn’t consider their beliefs Christian.”

in response I was told, “They are good people.”

How could I have better handled myself in this situation? I could have explained the difference between being a Christian and being a good person but I didn’t think it was appropriate. I didn’t want to make this woman feel disrespected in front of a group of young people but I wanted to make sure that the student asking the question got an honest answer other than, “We’re all friends.” because I feel like that leads to relativism and a lack of true discussion.

What should I have done better? Please give me some advice.

I don’t think you did anything wrong. I would have pulled her aside afterward and made sure she understood what your intent was - to educate and correct incorrect information - not to berate her friends, or undermine her authority.

~Liza