Discalced Carmelites

[Augustine]

I’m a novice in the Secular Discalced Carmelite Order and an apostolate of our community is to promote vocations for our order.

Recently, we produced an ad that’s being aired in our town, Austin, TX. The ad focuses on men’s vocations, but it also applies to women.

Check it out here and feel free to browse the site of our province, carmelitesok.org.

 

[water]

Thanks Augustine, do they allow a weekend visit?

What do Carmelites think about the Total consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the manner of St. Louis de Montfort and/or St. Maximilian Kolbe?

Thanks!
H

 

[Augustine]

Thanks Augustine, do they allow a weekend visit?

What do Carmelites think about the Total consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary in the manner of St. Louis de Montfort and/or St. Maximilian Kolbe

I don’t know. But you can always ask: vocations@carmelitesok.org.

About Marian spirituality, Carmel has its own modeled after that of the first Carmelites on Mt. Carmel and on that of St. Teresa and St. John of the Cross, which can be seen in St. Therese’s autobiography, Story of a Soul, but particularly in her letters.

So, St. Louis de Monfort’s Marian spirituality is not Carmel’s, but the total consecration to Mary is quite compatible with Carmel, me thinks.

 

[FCEGM]

I’m a novice in the Secular Discalced Carmelite Order and an apostolate of our community is to promote vocations for our order.

Recently, we produced an ad that’s being aired in our town, Austin, TX. The ad focuses on men’s vocations, but it also applies to women.

Check it out here and feel free to browse the site of our province, carmelitesok.org.

The ad was very nicely done, Augustine. Now if we could only get some OCD priests and nuns here in North Carolina . . . .

 

[Augustine]

Here are all the ads produced for this vocation campaign:

• #1
• #2
• #3
• #4
  Spread the word!

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I am highly interested in the Carmelites.

Maybe you might start a thread explaining St. John of the Cross and walking through it. I find him very confusing to understand.

 

[CarmeliteGirl25]

I am highly interested in the Carmelites.

Maybe you might start a thread explaining St. John of the Cross and walking through it. I find him very confusing to understand.

I, too, am interested in the Carmelites. I am going to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in Milwaukee later this month. I really never could understand John of the Cross that well.

 

[goforgoal]

My heart, soul, and “everything” belongs to the Discalced Carmelites Nuns.

A quick story–Before, I made the decison about going to cloistered order. I visited two active orders. The first one was Sisters of the Presentation of Mary I went to 3 different weekend retreat which really helped me out in discerning my vocation, I also went to visit Sisters of the Child Jesus which was really helpful also. I’m thankful and thank God for the two active orders that I visted and I still keep in contact with all of the religious Sisters…As far as I can remember I’ve always wanted to become a Nun but of course like all young women I thought I had it figured out. I was going to get married and so forth. While I was making my own plans God planned something different for me

I did visit Carmel of St. Joseph but not very long. I had to come back home to take care of a few things and I’ll admit I really missed my family, friends, and so forth and they missed me

I do plan on going back to Carmel of St. Joseph, I’m not really sure when but I do know that I will return. I often have realistic dreams of the Carmelites and I really do miss each and everyone of them. Praise be the Lord for them–for all who dedicate their lives to God and His people. I keep in contact with them by letters (since they do not have access to the internet).

“And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life” (Matthew 19:29)

“I will lead her into the desert and speak to her heart.” (Hosea 2:16)

“To be a woman means to love and suffer. To be a Nun means to love and suffer more. To be a nun means to enlarge one‘s capacity for being a woman”~ St. Teresa of Avila

A Carmelite Nun talks a bit about her vocation

thejesustv.com/view_video.php?viewkey=1415131816

Carmelite Nun Interview

youtube.com/user/jbh67

Thank you for reading, listening, and Praying

May God reward You
goforgoal

 

[Augustine]

I am highly interested in the Carmelites.

Maybe you might start a thread explaining St. John of the Cross and walking through it. I find him very confusing to understand.

There are many experts on St. John of the Cross and on St. Teresa who aren’t Discalced Carmelites. As a matter of fact, most Discalced Carmelites are not scholar experts on them.

Discalced Carmelites love St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa and they strive to live their charism out. However, one’s charism is given by the Holy Spirit. Discalced Carmelites have found out that St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa are their kindred spirits, having being donned with the same charism and living it out to perfection. That’s why they’re spiritual father and mother of the Discalced Carmelites. In other words, being a Discalced Carmelite is a vocation, not a line of study.

 

[Augustine]

I really never could understand John of the Cross that well.

As I said elsewhere, St. John’s intended audience were his religious brothers and sisters, IOW, those with a few years of intensive and regular practice of prayer.

If at this moment you understand “only” St. Therese and most of St. Teresa, that’s quite fine already!

As I said then, I think that the Discalced Carmelite Doctors of the Church invite us to prayer thus:

• St. Therese calls us to start praying for a fuller conversion of our hearts.
• St. Teresa calls us to pray for endurance of conversion.
• St. John calls us to pray for abandoning ourselves to God.
  

 

[AveSantaMaria]

As I said elsewhere, St. John’s intended audience were his religious brothers and sisters, IOW, those with a few years of intensive and regular practice of prayer.

If at this moment you understand “only” St. Therese and most of St. Teresa, that’s quite fine already!

As I said then, I think that the Discalced Carmelite Doctors of the Church invite us to prayer thus:

• St. Therese calls us to start praying for a fuller conversion of our hearts.
• St. Teresa calls us to pray for endurance of conversion.
• St. John calls us to pray for abandoning ourselves to God.
  

Thank you for this explanation.

So is St. John of the Cross theologically similar to Abandonment to Divine Providence. I am ready to pray for abandoning myself to God. When I say that I do not understand St. John of the Cross, it is things such as the “sense” versus the “spirit.”

I read Chapter IX :Of the signs by which it will be known that the spiritual person is walking along the way of this night and the purgation of sense. It seems that from my experiences, I may be in the process of purgation instead of mostly the sins mentioned at the beginning of the book.

Perhaps a thread on Dark Night of the Soul in the Spirituality forum might attract people who understand the difference between the purgation of the sense and purgation of the spirit. I am seriously considering other orders in addition to the Carmelites so I hope to understand this teaching of St. John of the Cross without necessarily joining the Carmelite order. Many others also seem to be undergoing purgation in the Spirituality forum so this book might be helpful for them. Explaining it could also attract attention and serve as a recruitment for members who may not even know that third-orders exist. Perhaps I will consider starting one but I am not sure a novice should advice other novices.

 

[Augustine]

I don’t know de Caussade’s work, so I can’t comment.

Keep in mind that there’s not one process of purgation. One cannot assume a linear process or even a process at all. The initiative is the Lord’s, but our response, feeble.

FWIW, I consider St. John’s writings commentaries on the book of Job applied to the spiritual life. That’s his great insight and gift to the Church.

There are many threads about dark nights already. IMO, if you’d like to know yourself better, you should meet a spiritual director. This forum is not the proper means for that.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

I don’t know de Caussade’s work, so I can’t comment.

Keep in mind that there’s not one process of purgation. One cannot assume a linear process or even a process at all. The initiative is the Lord’s, but our response, feeble.

FWIW, I consider St. John’s writings commentaries on the book of Job applied to the spiritual life. That’s his great insight and gift to the Church.

There are many threads about dark nights already. IMO, if you’d like to know yourself better, you should meet a spiritual director. This forum is not the proper means for that.

Thank you for the insight that St. John’s writings are commentaries on the book of Job applied to the spiritual life. I have never heard that before.

May you be blessed in life!

 

[Sister_Helena]

Actually, there are 4 major works of St. John of the Cross: Dark Night, Ascent of Mt. Carmel, Spiritual Canticle and Living Flame of love. He also has other works of prose, poetry and letters . the 4 major works are commentaries on his own poems with the same titles. The Spiritual Canticle is a take-off on the Song of Songs and speaks about the spiritual journey, from the moment of spiritual awakening to the moment of finding the Beloved. The Ascent is the souls active role in purifying itself of inordinate attachments and the Dark night is both active and passive purgations of sense and spirit.
St. John’s doctrine is really better appreciated by those who have lived the spiritual life for a while. When he speaks of writing for beginners, he doesn’t really mean beginners in the spiritual life but beginners in contemplation. But still he is a solid guide for those who want to know the demands of discipleship and of the subtle workings of the Holy Spirit. If you have access to Facebook, we have a group called: St. John of the Cross: Life, Works and Teachings.

 

[JReducation]

One has to understand that the works of St. John of the Cross are the fruit of his fidelity to his Carmelite vocation. They are not, properly speaking, the Carmelite way of life. They are the mysticism that results from embracing God as intensely as did St. John.

An excellent work on the spirit of St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross is THE FIRE WITHIN by Fr. Dubey. READER BEWARE: It’s very theological. It’s not written as a way of life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sister_Helena]

One has to understand that the works of St. John of the Cross are the fruit of his fidelity to his Carmelite vocation. They are not, properly speaking, the Carmelite way of life. They are the mysticism that results from embracing God as intensely as did St. John.

An excellent work on the spirit of St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross is THE FIRE WITHIN by Fr. Dubey. READER BEWARE: It’s very theological. It’s not written as a way of life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I beg to disagree. St. John of the Cross, although speaking from his own experiences, is an embodiment of what all Carmelites strive to be. His spirituality is a product of the training he received as a young religious. He was nourished by a very particular book called “Institution of the First Monks” which was read by all Carmelites of his day. It is the Carmelite ideal proposed to all Carmel’s members. Carmelites may find themselves in different circumstances and living conditions as John but the ideal of the Carmelite life remains the same. The challenge is how to find ways to meet the ideal in the context of modern demands and challenges.

 

[Augustine]

One has to understand that the works of St. John of the Cross are the fruit of his fidelity to his Carmelite vocation. They are not, properly speaking, the Carmelite way of life.

The writings of the Discalced Carmelites’ Holy Father, St. John of the Cross, along with those of their Holy Mother, St. Teresa of Avila, are those which their children base their lives on. We strive to imitate their example, in particular the example that they left us in writing.

Much like Franciscans strive to live by St. Francis’ example.

 

[JReducation]

Let me try to clarify what I was thinking. I agree with the two previous posts. My thought was that the mystical writings of John and Teresa are not the way of life or the rule of Carmel. They are the goal of Carmel or the product when the life of Carmel is lived in such a heroic manner. They protray the goal of the Carmelite by showing, in a veyr concrete way, the fruit of the Rule of Carmel or one may say that goal of the rule of Carmel.

Just a the writings of Francis, Bonaventure and Francis of Osuna are not the rule of the Franciscan life, but they are the end result of Franciscan life lived in a heroic manner, and they reflect the goal of the Franciscan.

I’m not sure if I’m saying it correctly. I know what I’m thinking, but putting it in writing is more difficullt. Nonetheless, I do see the connection between the mystical writings and the Rule of Carmel. I guess that’s the best way that I can explain it.

Having studied both, it is very clear that there is an intimate connection. However,one remains the rule and the other is the “climax” (for lack of a better word) of living the rule.

Does that help clarify what I’m trying to say? I hope it does. If not, please ask me again. I’ll try again. But I do agree with Sister and Augustine. The Rule, Teresa and John of the Cross are inseparable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Let me try to clarify what I was thinking. I agree with the two previous posts. My thought was that the mystical writings of John and Teresa are not the way of life or the rule of Carmel. They are the goal of Carmel or the product when the life of Carmel is lived in such a heroic manner. They protray the goal of the Carmelite by showing, in a veyr concrete way, the fruit of the Rule of Carmel or one may say that goal of the rule of Carmel.

Just a the writings of Francis, Bonaventure and Francis of Osuna are not the rule of the Franciscan life, but they are the end result of Franciscan life lived in a heroic manner, and they reflect the goal of the Franciscan.

I’m not sure if I’m saying it correctly. I know what I’m thinking, but putting it in writing is more difficullt. Nonetheless, I do see the connection between the mystical writings and the Rule of Carmel. I guess that’s the best way that I can explain it.

Having studied both, it is very clear that there is an intimate connection. However,one remains the rule and the other is the “climax” (for lack of a better word) of living the rule.

Does that help clarify what I’m trying to say? I hope it does. If not, please ask me again. I’ll try again. But I do agree with Sister and Augustine. The Rule, Teresa and John of the Cross are inseparable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Br JR,
To a point I think you have got it but just to a point.

The Carmelite Rule is very short. Our Constitutions tell us how we are to live the Rule. Teresa did write a set of Constitutions. So some of her writings go further than you state.

I also wish to state that we O.Carm. are just as faithful to the Rule and out Constitutions as the O.C.D. are.

 

[JReducation]

Br JR,
To a point I think you have got it but just to a point.

The Carmelite Rule is very short. Our Constitutions tell us how we are to live the Rule. Teresa did write a set of Constitutions. So some of her writings go further than you state.

I also wish to state that we O.Carm. are just as faithful to the Rule and out Constitutions as the O.C.D. are.

I understand that the Rule of Carmel is short. So is the Franciscan Rule, though a little longer than your own. But the argument that the other posters were saying was that they thought I was divorcing the mystical writings of John and Teresa from the Carmelite way of life. I’m trying to say that I’m not divorcing the, but just stating that those writings are not the rule of Carmel. They are the experiences of two bright lights of Carmel who lived the rule and constitutions in such an exceptional manner that they achieved the spiritual heights to which the rule and the constitutions point to.

I do know that the O’Carm are as faithful to the Rule of Carmel as the OCD. Just because they are OCD does not mean that they are more faithful. Sorry, couldn’t help myself. I always have to tease my Discalced Carmelite friends about their initials. I also tease the OFM as being the Order of Fat Men.

I understand the OCDs better than the O’Carm because the topic of my dissertation was The Dialogue Between Franciscan Poverty and Teresian Detachment In the Spiritual Life. I’m familiar with the O’Carm up to the reform, then I lose them. Except for one friend whom I had that is an O’Carm in Puerto Rico. I’m not sure what province that is.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF