Discerning homosexuality & same sex marriage in the light of the gospel.

[Timbothefiveth]

I did address Romans 1 in context with the book of Romans in an earlier post. As an exercise, maybe you can tell me what the thesis is in the book of Romans. It is found in chapter 1. Also, please try to understand Romans 1 in context of what Paul is revealing in both Romans 1 and Romans 2 which leads to Romans 3. .

Here’s your address

Then Paul writes that the wrath of God on unrighteousness is being revealed. Who are the unrighteous? Paul writes in Romans 1 and 2 and makes a case that we are all unrighteous and all have fallen short of the glory of God. So, when you take Romans 1 that you quoted, Paul is condemning all mankind, unable to keep the righteous requirement of the law of God without exception. It is the bad news of God against all humanity, guilty, condemned, separated from God because of sin.

And it lists “indecent acts” among those. If you use this to justify gay marriage, it should also justify dishonoring your parents, gossiping, idol worship, and slander.

The verses you posted are about mankind creating and worshipping idols as compared to being centered around homosexuality.

It deals with all manner of sins. Whether or not it’s centered arond idols doesn’t matter. For instance, it also includes lies, slander, gossip, and dishonoring your parents.

Th It’s very similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah account which is not really about homosexuality. Read both Romans 1 and Sodom and Gormorrah passages again in context and let’s discuss.

Paul was listing a bunch of sins. Even though sins can be forgiven it does not make them okay. Is Paul saying that gossip and slander is okay since we can be forgiven? Of course not.

The proper context is the entire Bible with Christ and Him crucified as being central… for the Bible is God’s story of redemptive history of sinners to the praise of His glorious grace

If what he was referencing were not sins, why would there need to be any redemption? Furthermore, just because you can be forgiven of sins does not mean they’re okay. For instance, in the second chapter he starts off by telling people to avoid sin and what the consequences are.

 

[Dokimas]

I have not come to a conclusion about same sex marriage. Do you mind sharing your denominaton or core beliefs?

Aren’t we off topic?​

I am not connected with a denomination. I love to worship God with anyone who will worship the Lord Jesus Christ with me.​

I don’t want to get into my core beliefs except to say they start with John 14:6, John 3:16 and that Jesus is the God/Man.​

I will try to answer any pertainant question about what I believe to be true. Just ask.​

I believe homosexuality is sin for which Jeus died. I hope to live a thankful life for my sins which Jesus died for.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The Book of Romans:

The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Romans very systematically with precise purpose.

1. Please identify the thesis of the book of Romans in chapter 1.
2. What is Paul generally revealing with Romans 1 and Romans 2 as a major theme?
3. Do you see Romans 3 to be the solution to Romans 1 and 2?
4. After we have a common understanding about Romans chapters 1, 2, and 3, let’s look at the verses that you mentioned in context to the main points Paul wrote about, okay?
5. The verses that you quoted may or may not be about homosexuality, but let’s take this one step at a time. We also need to understand the culture of Paul’s day to see what he was addressing too.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Aren’t we off topic?​

I am not connected with a denomination. I love to worship God with anyone who will worship the Lord Jesus Christ with me.​

I don’t want to get into my core beliefs except to say they start with John 14:6, John 3:16 and that Jesus is the God/Man.​

I will try to answer any pertainant question about what I believe to be true. Just ask.​

I believe homosexuality is sin for which Jeus died. I hope to live a thankful life for my sins which Jesus died for.

Would you worship with LDS Christians? It would be helpful to understand your view of justification.

 

[NotTooSmart]

I think you might be confusing the issues my friend. Restoration theology is not really about same sex marriage. A few churches with restoration theology that comes to mind is the Mormon Church and Church of Christ. And we all know the Mormon Church is against same sex marriage. There are various Church of Christs, a very rew are for same sex marriage and most against it. I think you will find mainline denominations with a split on the issue.

But you have not addressed the issue I raised.

Is what you are proposing a part of historic Christianity within the context of last 2000 years. If so, please provide evidence of this.

Otherwise I must conclude that this is a new, creative innovation of the last thirty years or so.

If this is a creative innovation of the last thirty years or so, the implication is that the church of Jesus Christ for 2000 years or so was wrong on this issue.

If that is the case, then you and likeminded individuals are discovering a new truth in the Bible that everybody else has disagreed with for the 1900-2000 years previously.

Although you are not claim to be restoring essential parts of the gospel as the Mormons do, you would be claiming to restore parts of moral theology that the entire church got wrong previously.

So again, please provide evidence that your claims are consistent within the context of historical Christianity.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

The Book of Romans:

The Apostle Paul wrote the book of Romans very systematically with precise purpose.

1. Please identify the thesis of the book of Romans in chapter 1.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis_statement I don’t think thesis is a proper term here. Is there any other word you could use? I’m sorry, I’m just getting sort of confused.

1 Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,

3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,

4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name’s sake,

6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;

7to all who are beloved of God in Rome, called as saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.

9For God, whom I serve in my spirit in the preaching of the gospel of His Son, is my witness as to how unceasingly I make mention of you,

10always in my prayers making request, if perhaps now at last by the will of God I may succeed in coming to you.

11For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;

12that is, that I may be encouraged together with you while among you, each of us by the other’s faith, both yours and mine.

13 do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that often I have planned to come to you (and have been prevented so far) so that I may obtain some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.

14I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish.

15So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome.

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”

1. What is Paul generally revealing with Romans 1 and Romans 2 as a major theme?

I see several major themes. One is that both Jew and Greek can be saved. The other major theme I see is not breaking the Lord’s laws.

1. Do you see Romans 3 to be the solution to Romans 1 and 2?

At the very least the solution to Romans 2.

1. After we have a common understanding about Romans chapters 1, 2, and 3, let’s look at the verses that you mentioned in context to the main points Paul wrote about, okay?

Almost all of Paul’s points are in relation to not sinning. He tells not to lecture about theft if you steal. He says if you judge you risk the Lord’s wrath.
I think another point especially relevant here, is that he says faith does not nullify the law, that it establishes it.

1. The verses that you quoted may or may not be about homosexuality, but let’s take this one step at a time. We also need to understand the culture of Paul’s day to see what he was addressing too

men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

That’s pretty clearly a verse about homosexual acts, especially when taken in context of the whole bible. For instance, leviticus 18:22. As for the culture, yes, that stuff did happen in ancient Rome.

 

[Dokimas]

Would you worship with LDS Christians? It would be helpful to understand your view of justification.

Do you want to stay off topic? Okay, but I think you should not tell us to stay on topic; that would be consistent.​

Are you sure the Latter Day Saints worship the same God? According to the Mormons, Jesus was created in the womb of Mary when God had sex with her. They teach that Lucifer and Jesus are spirit brothers. They teach Mormon men need to be working their way to godhood. Would or could you worship with someone worshiping a different god?​

Pr 17:15 He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, Both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD.​

Lu 16:15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

Ac 13:39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.​

Ro 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but **the doers **of the law will be justified;​

Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Looks like Ro 2:13 & 3:20 contradict each other. Guess we need the Holy Spirit to understand God’s Word.​

Ro 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,​

Ro 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.​

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.​

Ga 3:11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”​

Jas 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.​

Ac 26:20 "but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

 

[2nd_Adam]

But you have not addressed the issue I raised.

Is what you are proposing a part of historic Christianity within the context of last 2000 years. If so, please provide evidence of this.

Otherwise I must conclude that this is a new, creative innovation of the last thirty years or so.

If this is a creative innovation of the last thirty years or so, the implication is that the church of Jesus Christ for 2000 years or so was wrong on this issue.

If that is the case, then you and likeminded individuals are discovering a new truth in the Bible that everybody else has disagreed with for the 1900-2000 years previously.

Although you are not claim to be restoring essential parts of the gospel as the Mormons do, you would be claiming to restore parts of moral theology that the entire church got wrong previously.

So again, please provide evidence that your claims are consistent within the context of historical Christianity.

I’m not sure what the Early Church Fathers wrote about homosexuality and same sex marriage. What did Augustine have to say on these topics? Can you please quote the Church Fathers on our thread topic.

 

[2nd_Adam]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis_statement I don’t think thesis is a proper term here. Is there any other word you could use? I’m sorry, I’m just getting sort of confused.

I see several major themes. One is that both Jew and Greek can be saved. The other major theme I see is not breaking the Lord’s laws.

At the very least the solution to Romans 2.

Almost all of Paul’s points are in relation to not sinning. He tells not to lecture about theft if you steal. He says if you judge you risk the Lord’s wrath.
I think another point especially relevant here, is that he says faith does not nullify the law, that it establishes it.

That’s pretty clearly a verse about homosexual acts, especially when taken in context of the whole bible. For instance, leviticus 18:22. As for the culture, yes, that stuff did happen in ancient Rome.

Do you represent the official Catholic position in regard to Her understanding of Romans chapters 1 and 2, and the thesis of Romans? Or, is this your personal understanding of Romans 1 and 2?

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Do you represent the official Catholic position in regard to Her understanding of Romans chapters 1 and 2, and the thesis of Romans? Or, is this your personal understanding of Romans 1 and 2?

My own fallible conclusions. I believe that in regards to the verses related to homosexual acts I’m in line with the official teaching.

 

[2nd_Adam]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis_statement I don’t think thesis is a proper term here. Is there any other word you could use? I’m sorry, I’m just getting sort of confused.

I see several major themes. One is that both Jew and Greek can be saved. The other major theme I see is not breaking the Lord’s laws.

At the very least the solution to Romans 2.

Almost all of Paul’s points are in relation to not sinning. He tells not to lecture about theft if you steal. He says if you judge you risk the Lord’s wrath.
I think another point especially relevant here, is that he says faith does not nullify the law, that it establishes it.

That’s pretty clearly a verse about homosexual acts, especially when taken in context of the whole bible. For instance, leviticus 18:22. As for the culture, yes, that stuff did happen in ancient Rome.

I’m glad someone finally brought up Leviticus! So, how do we understand the Levitical Law. I think there are over 600 of them in the Bible, but I’m not sure. I love crab, shrimp, and lobster… so I am very interested to hear the Catholic postion on the Levitical Law… on who it was intended for, and for what reason, and how all the 600+ laws apply to us a Christians. Please share the Catholic position of the Levitical Law as applicable to all Christians, especially Catholic Christians.

 

[2nd_Adam]

My own fallible conclusions. I believe that in regards to the verses related to homosexual acts I’m in line with the official teaching.

I am looking for the bigger picture. What is the Catholic postion in regards to the thesis of the Book of Romans, and how does she understand Romans chapters 1 and 2 in light of the entire book of Romans. This is very related to our topic, because your understanding of the verses quoted is driven by your understanding of what Paul writes as a whole in the Epistle of Romans.

 

[Dokimas]

I am looking for the bigger picture. What is the Catholic postion in regards to the thesis of the Book of Romans, and how does she understand Romans chapters 1 and 2 in light of the entire book of Romans. This is very related to our topic, because your understanding of the verses quoted is driven by your understanding of what Paul writes as a whole in the Epistle of Romans.

1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly** we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection**,
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Quite convicting to me. God help me!!!

 

[2nd_Adam]

1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly** we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection**,
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
Quite convicting to me. God help me!!!

Let’s put this in context. We know what sin is as revealed in the Word of God. Sexual immorality, fornication, adultery of the heart are examples of sexual sins. We know sex outside of marriage is sin, regardless of being heterosexual or homosexual sex. Therefore, should Christian homosexuals in a committed loving monogamous relationship marry? Some churches will say yes, and some will say no. Therefore, the debate is about same sex marriage as being allowed by God or not. Think about the issues in our generation. For some states, same sex marriage is legal, and some churches conduct same sex marriages. In other countries, same sex marriage is more accepted in the church and in society in general. So, are Christian couples of the same sex who are married in perpetual sin, or does God bless their marriage? We all agree that Christians are called to a life of holiness. Lordship in progression is a mark of a true Christian. This is not about antinomianism (cheap grace, Christianity without obedience). Not all heterosexual sex is sin; therefore, the question is about homosexual sex within the context of marriage… some churches do not consider this to be sin.

 

[Dokimas]

Let’s put this in context. We know what sin is as revealed in the Word of God. Sexual immorality, fornication, adultery of the heart are examples of sexual sins. We know sex outside of marriage is sin, regardless of being heterosexual or homosexual sex. Therefore, should Christian homosexuals in a committed loving monogamous relationship marry? Some churches will say yes, and some will say no. Therefore, the debate is about same sex marriage as being allowed by God or not. Think about the issues in our generation. For some states, same sex marriage is legal, and some churches conduct same sex marriage. In other countries, same sex marriage is more accepted in the church and in society in general. So, are Christian couples of the same sex who are married in perpetual sin, or does God bless their marriage? We all agree that Chrisians are called to a life of holiness.

Same sex marriage ultimately is about same sex sex.​

As I’ve tried to point out more than once, all examples from God/Jesus for marriage is between men and women, not men and men or women and women.​

Homosexual sex seems to be wrong in the Bible. While Roman 1 doesn’t use the term, it describes the act. Paul says men ‘acting’ with men are a result of God giving them over to their own sinful desires.

Romans 1

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man––and birds and four–footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.​

Please, 2nd Adam, don’t let your friends continue in their sins in the name of grace. Becasue, (Titus 2:11,12) “the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
teaching us that,** denying ungodliness and worldly lusts**, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,”

 

[2nd_Adam]

Same sex marriage ultimately is about same sex sex.​

As I’ve tried to point out more than once, all examples from God/Jesus for marriage is between men and women, not men and men or women and women.​

Homosexual sex seems to be wrong in the Bible. While Roman 1 doesn’t use the term, it describes the act. Paul says men ‘acting’ with men are a result of God giving them over to their own sinful desires.

Romans 1

22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man––and birds and four–footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

James 5:
19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.​

Please, 2nd Adam, don’t let your friends continue in their sins in the name of grace. Becasue, (Titus 2:11,12) “the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
teaching us that,** denying ungodliness and worldly lusts**, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,”

This has nothing to do with imaginary friends. Please look at the thread title. You are all over the place with your doctrine and biblical interpertation. This is not a free for all for individualistic truth. We are simply examining the Scriptures on a certain topic, attempting to handle the Word of Truth. Our personal interpretations are meaningless. What matters is divine revelation correctly interpreted and understood according to God. I have to admit, Fundamentalists like yourself are the worst in mishandling the Scriptures to support preconceived biases that is in your heard. If you want to do a very slow Bible Study on the 6 verses, we can do it. However, let’s not jump all around the place. We can discuss the entire account of Sodom first since this is the account that Christians have used to based their views on homosexuality (sodomy). What is this account all about?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Here is a book that has me questioning my conservative view on same sex marriage. It is very interesting read to hear from the other perspective.

amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252364451&sr=1-4

Here is a book review by an Amazon customer:

Most Helpful Customer Reviews

55 of 67 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars An opportunity to heal the church, May 16, 2006
By Janine Adams (Louisville, CO USA) - See all my reviews

This review is from: Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church (Paperback)
The issue of whether to allow ordination and marriage of people who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender is being debated in almost every major Christian denomination. This book is essential reading for anyone who wants to be informed about this issue. It’s meticulously researched (483 footnotes!) but also very clear and accessible. It’s thoroughly Biblical–something that I believe will be appreciated by people on both sides of the debate. Dr. Rogers wrote the book from his own Presbyterian perspective but it will be a wonderful resource for people of all Christian denominations. Looking at each chapter in turn:

Chapter 1, “Studying Homosexuality for the First Time,” describes Dr. Rogers’ background as an evangelical and how he first began to study the issue of homosexuality in his local congregation.

Chapter 2, “A Pattern of Misusing the Bible to Justify Oppression,” documents how leading theologians, for two hundred years, misused the Bible to try to justify the enslavement of people of African descent and the subordination of women to men.

Chapter 3, “A Breakthrough in Understanding the Word of God,” shows how Biblical interpretation has changed for the better over the last two hundred years.

Chapter 4, “Interpreting the Bible in Times of Controversy,” outlines the 7 guidelines on Biblical interpretation officially adopted by the Presbyterian Church and applies them to the issue of homosexuality.

Chapter 5, “What the Bible Says and Doesn’t Say about Homosexuality,” takes a close look at each of the passages that supposedly condemn people who are LGBT and shows that much of the conventional wisdom about these passages is simply incorrect. There’s also a great discussion in here about how Acts 10-15 provides a helpful model for how the church can resolve this issue.

Chapter 6, “Real People and Real Marriage,” shares the stories of actual gay and lesbian Christians and debunks the stereotypes and cliches that so often characterize this debate.

Chapter 7, “Healing the Church,” includes recommendations for what the Presbyterian Church needs to do to make things right and to heal the divisions in the church.

If we choose to listen, the thoughtful scholarship in this book presents a tremendous opportunity for the church to affirm its biblical and confessional tradition while also welcoming people who are LGBT as full and equal members.

 

[Dokimas]

This has nothing to do with imaginary friends. Please look at the thread title. You are all over the place with your doctrine and biblical interpertation. This is not a free for all for individualistic truth. We are simply examining the Scriptures on a certain topic, attempting to handle the Word of Truth. Our personal interpretations are meaningless. What matters is divine revelation correctly interpreted and understood according to God. I have to admit, Fundamentalists like yourself are the worst in mishandling the Scriptures to support preconceived biases that is in your heard. If you want to do a very slow Bible Study on the 6 verses, we can do it. However, let’s not jump all around the place. We can discuss the entire account of Sodom first since this is the account that Christians have used to based their views on homosexuality (sodomy). What is this account all about?

I guess you don’t tire of accusing others of straying from the topic.​

I’m sorry you don’t understand the connection of the verses I quoted to the original topic. Maybe the Holy Spirit will help us?​

I don’t care to start with Sodom and Gomorah unless you answer what the men wanted to do with the angels they thought were men. Of course you’ll stay in the context of what Lot was willing for the men to do to his daughters.​

I’d guess you’d be trying to make a wise crack on me by calling me a fundamentalist. The tone you use is that you look down at them. I have no clue if I’m a fundamentalist; especially because I don’t know what you mean when you use the term.​

How I answer is from my studies. Sure I started from what I heard; then I’ve studied for myself. Some of the thinks I’ve been taught I have come to a different conclusion and some things I have not concluded differently.​

It does not serve you well to accuse me or anyone without examples. It shows weakness in your argument.​

Please don’t tell me to stay on topic here as all I’m doing is answering your post. If you tell me I’m off topic, let me say, IMO, you’ll look foolish.

 

[2nd_Adam]

I guess you don’t tire of accusing others of straying from the topic.​

I’m sorry you don’t understand the connection of the verses I quoted to the original topic. Maybe the Holy Spirit will help us?​

I don’t care to start with Sodom and Gomorah unless you answer what the men wanted to do with the angels they thought were men. Of course you’ll stay in the context of what Lot was willing for the men to do to his daughters.​

I’d guess you’d be trying to make a wise crack on me by calling me a fundamentalist. The tone you use is that you look down at them. I have no clue if I’m a fundamentalist; especially because I don’t know what you mean when you use the term.​

How I answer is from my studies. Sure I started from what I heard; then I’ve studied for myself. Some of the thinks I’ve been taught I have come to a different conclusion and some things I have not concluded differently.​

It does not serve you well to accuse me or anyone without examples. It shows weakness in your argument.​

Please don’t tell me to stay on topic here as all I’m doing is answering your post. If you tell me I’m off topic, let me say, IMO, you’ll look foolish.

Okay, let’s take a break from each other for a week. I would encourage you to read the book I posted on the topic and do your own study. Here’s the link again:

amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252364451&sr=1-4

 

[Dokimas]

Okay, let’s take a break from each other for a week. I would encourage you to read the book I posted on the topic and do your own study. Here’s the link again:

amazon.com/Jesus-Bible-Homosexuality-Revised-Expanded/dp/066423397X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1252364451&sr=1-4

I respect your need for a break.​

I must be upfront with you…I will not be reading the book. As I don’t need a fundamental preacher to tell me what to believe or understand, I don’t need a book of someone’s opinions either.​

Until you get much more specific as to why you think same sex sex is okay with God (using the Word of God) I have no desire to read someone’s book.