Discerning homosexuality & same sex marriage in the light of the gospel.

[2nd_Adam]

The context of those 8 verses is Genesis 1:

and Genesis 2:

One need not look further.

We have to consider all of Scripture before we come to a conclusion. At least that’s good Protestant hermeneutics (interpretation of the Scriptures). Just be aware that there are Christians in all branches of Christedom and denominations that disagree with each other on the issue of same sex marriage. A Christian’s position on same sex marriage really has nothing to do with the gospel. What do you think the Church Fathers believed in regards to homosexuality or same sex marriage?

 

[2nd_Adam]

The final verse of John’s Gospel tells us; “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” (Jn 21:25)

Coming on a Catholic website and trying to use the ‘Sola Scriptura’ argument is like asking a fireman to only read the Bible to find out how to put out a fire.

Your Scripture alone argument is not supported by Sacred Scripture itself , Jesus never said, ‘If it isn’t in Sacred Scripture, it isn’t my teaching.’, or “Peter, write this down.”

Jesus knew that many things would come up over time, like embryonic stem cell research… (it isn’t in the Bible!), that the people of His day could not comprehend, so what did He do? He gave us a Pope, Peter and His Apostles and their successors as the leaders of His Catholic Church to answer these tough questions that aren’t explicitly answered in Sacred Scripture.

Without someone who can answer these questions, we are all adrift without a rudder (up a creek without a ‘poodle’ as my mother in law says, she’s from Montreal!), hoping the Holy Spirit will enlighten us!

I have participated in many Bible studies with my Protestant brothers who are all on fire and totally in love with Jesus Christ! When questions come up like this or like abortion or like birth control, we ended up with many conflicting opinions, even though everyone there is truly a follower of Jesus and prays for the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So how can this be? If i love Jesus and you love Jesus and we are both “inspired by the Holy Spirit” but we come up with answers that totally disagree on a subject, who is correct?

Jesus teaches us through His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church;

"Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.(CCC 2357)

The Church also teaches us that we are to love everyone, to love the sinner and hate the sin, because we are all sinners.

If i want to cheat on my wife, the Church teaches us that i have sinned and must be repentant and ask for forgiveness from God. If i am single, either homosexual or heterosexual, i must refrain from sexual relations!

It is impossible to have a “civil marriage” between 2 men or 2 women. It is impossible! Marriage is clearly defined in Sacred Scripture and has always been, throughout the history of the human race, between ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, period!

If a state determines that civil unions are permitted between same sex couples, or 3 men and 3 women or 1 man and his car…then great. That is a civil determination, but it can never be a “Marriage” which is a covenant between a man and a woman before God to create children and to ensure the propagation of the human race through the family unit.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

Okay, I want to make sure that all of the Catholic Catechism was quoted in regards to homosexuality and same sex marriage. Does the Catholic Catechism address same sex marriage? Since we are not all Catholics on this site, please use only the Catholic Catechism as a reference on the topic to determine the Catholic position. If you were honest, this has to be an ongoing debate within clergy and laity in the Catholic Church. Again, please post all o the Catholic Catechism regarding homosexuality and same sex marriage. I will post all of the 8 verses in Scripture about homosexuality. The Bible has no reference to same sex marriage. You have to understand the Protestant mindset, that we try not to go beyond what is written. For example, we cannot understand the prohibition of marriage of clergy when Scripture teaches otherwise. We know Peter was married. It is within the same line of thinking, I am trying to discern same sex marriage as a Christian with my conscience before God. I’m not sure you can find older sacred tradition addressing same sex marriage.

 

[Dokimas]

The following is from Romans 1. As far as I know, the word ‘homosexuality’ is not in this passage but it seems clear that Paul is referring to homosexuality in the highlighted parts.

19 ¶ because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man––and birds and four–footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions.** For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful,** and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil–mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.​

Notice that homosexuality is not the only sin picked out by Paul (the Holy Spirit) to make a powerful statement against.

 

[kcmekim]

There are 8 verses in Scripture on the subject of homosexuality. Jesus never addresses homosexuality, or explicitly discusses same sex marriage.

Actually, all of scripture is the words of Jesus so your statement contradicts itself.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Actually, all of scripture is the words of Jesus so your statement contradicts itself.

Please help me understand what you are saying. I am not denying that all of Scripture is God-breathed. However, God did not speak much about homosexuality in the Scriptures. Same sex marrriage is never mentioned in the Word of God (Bible).

 

[buffalo]

Okay, I want to make sure that all of the Catholic Catechism was quoted in regards to homosexuality and same sex marriage. Does the Catholic Catechism address same sex marriage? Since we are not all Catholics on this site, please use only the Catholic Catechism as a reference on the topic to determine the Catholic position. If you were honest, this has to be an ongoing debate within clergy and laity in the Catholic Church. Again, please post all o the Catholic Catechism regarding homosexuality and same sex marriage. I will post all of the 8 verses in Scripture about homosexuality. The Bible has no reference to same sex marriage. You have to understand the Protestant mindset, that we try not to go beyond what is written. For example, we cannot understand the prohibition of marriage of clergy when Scripture teaches otherwise. We know Peter was married. It is within the same line of thinking, I am trying to discern same sex marriage as a Christian with my conscience before God. I’m not sure you can find older sacred tradition addressing same sex marriage.

1601 "The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."84
I. MARRIAGE IN GOD’S PLAN
[1602](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1602.htm’) Sacred Scripture begins with the creation of man and woman in the image and likeness of God and concludes with a vision of "the wedding-feast of the Lamb."85 Scripture speaks throughout of marriage and its “mystery,” its institution and the meaning God has given it, its origin and its end, its various realizations throughout the history of salvation, the difficulties arising from sin and its renewal “in the Lord” in the New Covenant of Christ and the Church.86

III. MATRIMONIAL CONSENT
[1625](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1625.htm’) The parties to a marriage covenant are a baptized man and woman, free to contract marriage, who freely express their consent; “to be free” means:

• not being under constraint;
• not impeded by any natural or ecclesiastical law.
  [1626](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1626.htm’) The Church holds the exchange of consent between the spouses to be the indispensable element that "makes the marriage."127 If consent is lacking there is no marriage.
  1627 The consent consists in a “human act by which the partners mutually give themselves to each other”: “I take you to be my wife” - "I take you to be my husband."128 This consent that binds the spouses to each other finds its fulfillment in the two "becoming one flesh."129
  [1628](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1628.htm’) The consent must be an act of the will of each of the contracting parties, free of coercion or grave external fear.130 No human power can substitute for this consent.131 If this freedom is lacking the marriage is invalid.
  1629 For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed.132 In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged.133

 

[kcmekim]

Please help me understand what you are saying.

What is there to understand?

a) All scripture is God-breathed.
b) Jesus is God
c) Ergo, all of scripture is the words of Jesus

I am not denying that all of Scripture is God-breathed. However, God did not speak much about homosexuality in the Scriptures.

Doesn’t matter how much He said something, only that He said it at all. Even if there were only one verse out of the whole Bible, it would still be authoritative.

Same sex marrriage is never mentioned in the Word of God (Bible).

Actually, it is.

First of all, it is condemned by logical extension. If homosexuality is condemned, then homosexual marriage is condemned.

Second, if the Bible states specifically that marriage is to be between one man and one woman, then all other kinds of marriages are condemned by default.

 

[Holly3278]

Here is some good information on gay marriage and why it is wrong:

catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp

 

[buffalo]

Okay, I will post a reference to all of the Scriptures in reference to homosexuality. It would be interesting to note that there is no word in biblical Greek or Hebrew that is equivanlent to the English word homosexual. I believe the world was coined about 100 years ago and first appeared in the Bible in the 1946 Revised Standard Version according to a book that I have read. Any Catholic scholar out there willing to verify what I wrote above?

Agreed.

 

[VARC]

Fact: Sex outside of marriage is Fornication
Fact: Homosexuals cannot get married in the eyes of God
Therefore: Homosexuals will always be committing Fornication, which God hates

The first and second facts we can gather from Scripture. Therefore if we use reason and read the whole of Scripture in light of itself we see that homosexuality nor homosexual marriage is something detestable to God. Period.

Sex outside of marriage is also detestable to God too, even if you are straight. Many people present a double standard by cheering on straight sex while booing gay sex. Just because they do it does not mean it is the Christian position, nor does it mean any learned Christian would do the same.

The spirit of the law against fornication is sexual activity with no intention of commitment to the person they are using for gratification. Monogomous gay couples in commited relationship cannot be accused of violating that law. You are focusing on the legal letter of the law which is contrary to the Gospel in the sincere opinion of many.

 

[2nd_Adam]

The following is from Romans 1. As far as I know, the word ‘homosexuality’ is not in this passage but it seems clear that Paul is referring to homosexuality in the highlighted parts.

19 ¶ because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man––and birds and four–footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,
25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions.** For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.
27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful,** and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil–mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.​

Notice that homosexuality is not the only sin picked out by Paul (the Holy Spirit) to make a powerful statement against.

Let’s take Romans 1 in context with the book of Romans. Romans 1:16-17 reveals the thesis of the Book of Romans which is the gospel.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17

Then Paul writes that the wrath of God on unrighteousness is being revealed. Who are the unrighteous? Paul writes in Romans 1 and 2 and makes a case that we are all unrighteous and all have fallen short of the glory of God. So, when you take Romans 1 that you quoted, Paul is condemning all mankind, unable to keep the righteous requirement of the law of God without exception. It is the bad news of God against all humanity, guilty, condemned, separated from God because of sin. The verses you posted are about mankind creating and worshipping idols as compared to being centered around homosexuality. It’s very similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah account which is not really about homosexuality. Read both Romans 1 and Sodom and Gormorrah passages again in context and let’s discuss.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth…

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I have been participating on the “Problems with Protestantism” thread and the topic of homosexuality and same sex marriage came up. I did not want the topic of homosexuality to overrun that thread, so I created it here. There are 8 verses in Scripture on the subject of homosexuality. Jesus never addresses homosexuality, or explicitly discusses same sex marriage. When you examine the 8 verses in Scripture on homosexuality in context of the entire Bible, redemptive history, and the gospel of God’s grace for sinners… I believe Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Anglicans, etc) have a tendency to move from a Christ-centered gospel to a moral gospel and a moral agenda.

Maybe moralism and legalism are easier than being Christ-centred ?​

Even the idea of a traditional family leaves out most of the godly families we find in the Old Testament since most do not fit in the 21st century traditonal family mold… Have at it guys, but share with kindness and respect for your brothers and sisters in Christ. It is a very relevant topic in our generation.

Maybe Jesus did not mention it because there was no need to - because it was not disputed that it was bad. Another issue that’s not mentioned anywhere in the NT is suicide - it’s very hard to interpret this as meaning it was viewed as permissible.​

OTOH, the non-occurrence of the Second Coming is what required Christians to settle down with a more or less organised social life: if it had occurred, these problems might well not have arisen, because social life would not have developed much. AFAICS.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Then what was Jesus Christ’s central message?

“Jesus…preached the Kingship of God” (Mark 1.15)​

I understand the Catholic concept of divine revelation which includes sacred written and oral tradition. However, I don’t think there are sayings of Jesus accepted by the Catholic Church found outside the Catholic cannon of Scripture. We have the same NT cannon. I think you point is very valid. What emphasis did the early Church Fathers put on homosexuality. And when the Apostle Paul was addressing homosexuality, in what the cultural context that he was addressing it in? I’m sure there are Catholic clergy who see homosexuality quite different than the official Magisterium position.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The final verse of John’s Gospel tells us; “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.” (Jn 21:25)

Coming on a Catholic website and trying to use the ‘Sola Scriptura’ argument is like asking a fireman to only read the Bible to find out how to put out a fire.

Your Scripture alone argument is not supported by Sacred Scripture itself , Jesus never said, ‘If it isn’t in Sacred Scripture, it isn’t my teaching.’, or “Peter, write this down.”

Jesus knew that many things would come up over time, like embryonic stem cell research… (it isn’t in the Bible!), that the people of His day could not comprehend, so what did He do? He gave us a Pope, Peter and His Apostles and their successors as the leaders of His Catholic Church to answer these tough questions that aren’t explicitly answered in Sacred Scripture.

Without someone who can answer these questions, we are all adrift without a rudder (up a creek without a ‘poodle’ as my mother in law says, she’s from Montreal!), hoping the Holy Spirit will enlighten us!

I have participated in many Bible studies with my Protestant brothers who are all on fire and totally in love with Jesus Christ! When questions come up like this or like abortion or like birth control, we ended up with many conflicting opinions, even though everyone there is truly a follower of Jesus and prays for the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

So how can this be? If i love Jesus and you love Jesus and we are both “inspired by the Holy Spirit” but we come up with answers that totally disagree on a subject, who is correct?

Depends on the issue and on who says what.​

Jesus teaches us through His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church;

"Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.(CCC 2357)

The Church also teaches us that we are to love everyone, to love the sinner and hate the sin, because we are all sinners.

If i want to cheat on my wife, the Church teaches us that i have sinned and must be repentant and ask for forgiveness from God. If i am single, either homosexual or heterosexual, i must refrain from sexual relations!

It is impossible to have a “civil marriage” between 2 men or 2 women. It is impossible! Marriage is clearly defined in Sacred Scripture and has always been, throughout the history of the human race, between ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, period!

If a state determines that civil unions are permitted between same sex couples, or 3 men and 3 women or 1 man and his car…then great. That is a civil determination, but it can never be a “Marriage” which is a covenant between a man and a woman before God to create children and to ensure the propagation of the human race through the family unit.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

FWIW - for most of the OT period, wives were possessions, property. (As for slaves, they were not even regarded as human under Roman Law.) So it is not impossible for marriage to change considerably.​

BTW, it is simply not true that marriage has always been between one man and one woman - polygamy has a far longer history than unions between one man and one woman. Within Christianity, even child-marriage has been known.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Maybe moralism and legalism are easier than being Christ-centred ?​

Maybe Jesus did not mention it because there was no need to - because it was not disputed that it was bad. Another issue that’s not mentioned anywhere in the NT is suicide - it’s very hard to interpret this as meaning it was viewed as permissible.​

OTOH, the non-occurrence of the Second Coming is what required Christians to settle down with a more or less organised social life: if it had occurred, these problems might well not have arisen, because social life would not have developed much. AFAICS.

I think Jesus increased the light and expounded the righteous requirement of God for us. Jesus is revealing that we are all immoral and sinful… independent from our sexual orientation. Christians have a tendency to throw stones at those with a different sexual orientation, when Jesus’ account is quite different for the women caught in adultery. Stone throwing is not the gospel of God.

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Anger
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother [2] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults [3] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell [4] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. [5]

Lust
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Divorce
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. [6]

Retaliation
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, [7] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, [8] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Jesus

 

[jimmy]

Since we are both Protestants, correct… we should look at the entire context of Scriptures to dscern this issue, right? Do you agree that we should come to entire Scirptures in the lenses of the gospel? We have to look at verses in the proper context. The proper context is the entire Bible with Christ and Him crucified as being central… for the Bible is God’s story of redemptive history of sinners to the praise of His glorious grace.

Yes, but He did not say that we should go on sinning even though He died to redeem the sinner. Redemption includes repentance. The apostles called the people to ‘repent and be baptized’. Repentance, or an about face, is essential to any Christian faith and it must stand at the beginning of every Christians journey. He must look back on his life and be able to reject his sins and turn against them toward Christ.

 

[Dokimas]

Let’s take Romans 1 in context with the book of Romans. Romans 1:16-17 reveals the thesis of the Book of Romans which is the gospel.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” - Rom 1:16-17

Then Paul writes that the wrath of God on unrighteousness is being revealed. Who are the unrighteous? Paul writes in Romans 1 and 2 and makes a case that we are all unrighteous and all have fallen short of the glory of God. So, when you take Romans 1 that you quoted, Paul is condemning all mankind, unable to keep the righteous requirement of the law of God without exception. It is the bad news of God against all humanity, guilty, condemned, separated from God because of sin. The verses you posted are about mankind creating and worshipping idols as compared to being centered around homosexuality. It’s very similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah account which is not really about homosexuality. Read both Romans 1 and Sodom and Gormorrah passages again in context and let’s discuss.

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth…

Actually you can extend it to Romans 3 which says none are righteous.​

Why was Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed and why was Nineveh spared? Sodom and Gomorrah did not repent; Nineveh repented.​

Repent come from the following Greek word

3340 metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh’-o

from 3326 and 3539; TDNT-4:975,636; v

AV-repent 34; 34

1. to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one’s mind for better, heartily **to amend with abhorrence of one’s past ****sins **

Paul, in Romans 7, speaks of his relationship to sin before Jesus changed him and after. After he was saved through the Precious Blood of the Lamb Jesus the Messiah, he said it was no longer he who sinned but sin that was still in his members. He also acknowledged that sin bothered him and was glad it would not separate him from the love of God. The key is he knew sin was wrong and wanted to be delived by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8).​

How does this relate to your discussion of homosexuality and other sins of unrighteousness? We need to know things are wrong, we need to repent and we need to want to be changed.​

Homosexuality, itself, doesn’t keep people from Heaven. Not realizing it is a sin to be repented of is far worse than the act itself. Repentance begins with agreeing with God about our nature and the specifics of sin in our own personal lives. One of Paul’s big sins was acting upon the desire for Christians to be put to death. He knew it made him least of the apostles.

 

[Dokimas]

Yes, but He did not say that we should go on sinning even though He died to redeem the sinner. Redemption includes repentance. The apostles called the people to ‘repent and be baptized’. Repentance, or an about face, is essential to any Christian faith and it must stand at the beginning of every Christians journey. He must look back on his life and be able to reject his sins and turn against them toward Christ.

Very well said.​

IMO, it would be un-Christ like for Jesus to leave us in our sins after saving us. He knows it destroys. He wants to deliver us from all things that destroys from within.​

2nd Adam seems to miss that part of the Gospel is deliverance for all who want deliverance. That’s what in included with SALVATION, again IMO.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Actually you can extend it to Romans 3 which says none are righteous.​

Why was Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed and why was Nineveh spared? Sodom and Gomorrah did not repent; Nineveh repented.​

Repent come from the following Greek word

3340 metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh’-o

from 3326 and 3539; TDNT-4:975,636; v

AV-repent 34; 34

1. to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2. to change one’s mind for better, heartily **to amend with abhorrence of one’s past ****sins **

Paul, in Romans 7, speaks of his relationship to sin before Jesus changed him and after. After he was saved through the Precious Blood of the Lamb Jesus the Messiah, he said it was no longer he who sinned but sin that was still in his members. He also acknowledged that sin bothered him and was glad it would not separate him from the love of God. The key is he knew sin was wrong and wanted to be delived by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8).​

How does this relate to your discussion of homosexuality and other sins of unrighteousness? We need to know things are wrong, we need to repent and we need to want to be changed.​

Homosexuality, itself, doesn’t keep people from Heaven. Not realizing it is a sin to be repented of is far worse than the act itself. Repentance begins with agreeing with God about our nature and the specifics of sin in our own personal lives. One of Paul’s big sins was acting upon the desire for Christians to be put to death. He knew it made him least of the apostles.

What were the sins of Sodom that they needed to repent of? I believe it’s found in Ezekiel.

 

[Dokimas]

What were the sins of Sodom that they needed to repent of? I believe it’s found in Ezekiel.

Who cares in the context of your argument? God judged it.