Discernment about Marian devotion

[JRKH]

OP stated to me in another thread that I “worshipped” Mary and to just “admit it”

I can see where that might cause one to have a bad attitude toward the OP…But I have to say that it does little credit to you, to St DeMontfort, or to Our Lady to make the same error by making such a blanket and inaccurate accusation as you did here.

There were numerous threads trying to denounce devotion to Mary. Trying to separate Christ from Mary which can’t be done.

If the contents of this thread illustrate what you consider to be efforts to “denounce devotion to Mary”, I suggest you stop, calm down and then carefully and prayerfully reread each and every post here.
Not one person here has tried to separate Mary from Christ. Not one person has “denounced” devotion to Mary - let alone encouraged anyone to reject her.

I consider Mary necessary not an option the mystery of the Incarnation justifies my belief.

I agree that Mary is necessary…As I’m sure that all Catholics her would…the discussion is not about whether Mary is necessary to the “mystery of the incarnation”.

Forgive my zeal, I take offense at Mary being attacked as if she is a rival of Christ.

I am happy to forgive - I too take offense when Mary is attacked. However it is important to a) recognize what is an “attack” and what is legitimate discussion and b) choosing the proper methods to respond in each case.

In response to your earlier post “Oneofthewomen” responded how such remaks can just make others “Dig in their heels”. I seem to recall making a somewhat similar remark to you on another thread.
I hope that you will give some consideration to the idea that - if you wish to draw people to Christ through Mary, that perhaps you should use methods that are more gentle and understanding…you know …like a Loving Mother would use.

Maybe I should of worded it a little better, again forgive my zeal

No doubt…
Zeal is fine…but can be counterproductive.

God Bless You

And you my friend.

Peace
james

 

[mathematoons]

OP stated to me in another thread that I “worshipped” Mary and to just “admit it”

There were numerous threads trying to denounce devotion to Mary. Trying to seperate Christ from Mary which can’t be done.

I consider Mary necessary not an option the mystery of the Incarnation justifies my belief.

Forgive my zeal, I take offense at Mary being attacked as if she is a rival of Christ.

Maybe I should of worded it a little better, again forgive my zeal.

God Bless You

OK, let’s get this all out in the open. It is precisely because of your anger at the idea of someone not doing Marian devotion that I think you worship Mary. I would feel exactly the same way as you do if someone claimed to be Catholic but ignored Jesus. No one is required to have Marian devotion, and if you’re saying that not to do so is to reject God and therefore be damned, then that’s a heresy, just as it would be if I said everyone either believes in literal 6-day creation or rejects God.

For some of us, devotion to Mary does not lead us to Christ. For my (physical) mother, the Old Testament does not lead her to Christ; it scares her, with all the stories of God killing people. But I’m not going to say she has to read it to be saved. That would be heresy. I can quote St. Jerome all I want, but that would still be heresy. I’m not going to go into the details, but you have no idea what kinds of crosses I bear, and to insist that Matian devotion will lead me to Christ I presumptuous.

Frankly, if Marian devotion will make me act the way you do around it, it scares me off even more. I don’t like the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, and since what you say is so influenced by him, that makes me not like what you have to say.

 

[DebChris]

I personally like Secret of the Rosary better than True Devotion to Mary. I did not start with St. Louis de Montfort, or the idea of Mary to Jesus as other than intercessor. Yes, I grew up in a family in which we prayed the rosary every night. I knew the stories of Bernadette and Fatima, as well as St. Maximillian Kolbe. As a child, I learned it was easier for peasant believers to relate to a peasant Mary than to a king Jesus, no matter how benevolent.
I agree that our worship should be reserved for God. In one of the messages from Medegudje, Mary is reported to have given the message, “Worship my Son, not me.” Mary points to her Son.
Again, it is the Marian priest who said, “When you honor the mother, you honor the son,” who also said, “What man would be unhappy if somebody brought his mother a bouguet of flowers?” About the same time I knew this priest, I also read a book by Teilhared de Chardin in which he said that it is the Holy Spirit who leads a man to pray the rosary. My own father died with his rosary in his hand.
The priest at my overseas parish who leads the Bible study does an excellent job. In the session on Marian devotion, he discussed the rosary as the most liturgical of all devotions since it involves meditating on the entire Gospel of the Lord. And of course, the Wedding of Cana is used as the prime example of the petition brought to Mary who points to her Son, “Do whatever He tells you!” Christ gave Mary to us at the Cross when He gave her to the Apostle John. This same priest gave the homily for the Solemnity of Mary Mother of God this New Year’s. It is from our mother, that we first learn about love.
God is love.
Do we need to pray the rosary to enter the kingdom of heaven? That is not the question Christ will ask us. He will say, “I was hungry and you gave me to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink…” He will ask how much we loved.

 

[Immacolata]

OK, let’s get this all out in the open. It is precisely because of your anger at the idea of someone not doing Marian devotion that I think you worship Mary. I would feel exactly the same way as you do if someone claimed to be Catholic but ignored Jesus. No one is required to have Marian devotion, and if you’re saying that not to do so is to reject God and therefore be damned, then that’s a heresy, just as it would be if I said everyone either believes in literal 6-day creation or rejects God.

For some of us, devotion to Mary does not lead us to Christ. For my (physical) mother, the Old Testament does not lead her to Christ; it scares her, with all the stories of God killing people. But I’m not going to say she has to read it to be saved. That would be heresy. I can quote St. Jerome all I want, but that would still be heresy. I’m not going to go into the details, but you have no idea what kinds of crosses I bear, and to insist that Matian devotion will lead me to Christ I presumptuous.

Frankly, if Marian devotion will make me act the way you do around it, it scares me off even more. I don’t like the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, and since what you say is so influenced by him, that makes me not like what you have to say.

I said in a different thread that I am leaving this subject alone unless I feel of any (name removed by moderator)ut. I believe I can offer some, whether it matters or not.

De_Montfort does not worship Mary. They are — for lack of a better term — displeased at your accusation of them worshiping her when they giving her the veneration that a mother deserves. De_Montfort is hurt because of, what they feel are, the attacks on their Mother; would you not feel saddened and hurt at an “attack” (again, for lack of a better term) on your devotion, your relationship with your Mother that is called something it is not?

Marian devotion, as others and you yourself have said, is not necessary. For those who do practice Marian devotion, it strengthens them in their devotion to Christ. Of course, for others, it does not strengthen, for any reason; such as yourself. If you feel that it is not necessary, you do not need to practice Marian devotion. However, for others, we have a strong relationship with our Mother, and cannot bare the thought of not having that relationship. She helps to lead us on the path to our salvation, and points the way to her Son. I believe that is where De_Montfort is coming from, and he/she does not worship Mary, but rather confides in her as a child does to his Mother.

And again, do not denounce someone’s devotion by telling them they are acting a certain way. Would you not be hurt if someone said, “If your Catholicism will make me act the way you do, it scares me off even more.” It hurts, and it is not very nice to say such things. You may not like the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, but De_Montfort does, and it strengthens his/her devotion to Mary, and to the Lord.

I agree with LilyM when she says:

To love anyone is to love who and what they love and cherish who and what they cherish. Jesus loves and cherishes Mary far more deeply than we can possibly understand. It behooves us who claim to love Him to have a close relationship with her too.

Just as one truly loves someone, they truly love those who are close to them. For example, if we marry someone we truly love, don’t we try to form a close relationship with their parents and/or siblings as a result of that deep love?

Again, just my thoughts.

 

[Mark121359]

There is nothing at all wrong with de Montfort. Pope John Paul ll had this to say of him;

“I am happy”, he wrote, “to offer thanks to the Lord for the growing influence of this missionary Saint, whose apostolate was nourished by a life of intense prayer, an unshakeable faith in the Triune God and a deep devotion to the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Redeemer” In order to know the Eternal Wisdom, uncreated and incarnate, Grignion de Montfort constantly invited people to put their trust in the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is so inseparable from Jesus ‘that it would be easier to separate light from the sun’. He remains an incomparable bard and disciple of the Mother of the Saviour, whom he honours as the one who so assuredly leads towards Christ"

And finally these comments;

*“Reading that book (True Devotion to Mary)”, he said, "has marked a decisive turning point in my life. I said ‘turning point’, although this is a long inner journey… At that very moment this unique treatise came into my hands, one of those books which it is not enough ‘to have read’. I reread it constantly and certain passages in succession.

“I soon realized that the book contained something fundamental over and above its baroque style. The result was that the devotion to the Mother of Christ of my childhood and my adolescence gave way to a new attitude, a devotion that welled up from the depths of my faith, as at the very heart of the Trinitarian and Christological reality”.

“At first, it had seemed to me that I should distance myself a bit from the Marian devotion of my childhood in order to focus more on Christ. Thanks to St Louis de Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption”*

That is high praise indeed from a man who many say is the greatest Pope… ever!

 

[mathematoons]

Would you not be hurt if someone said, “If your Catholicism will make me act the way you do, it scares me off even more.” It hurts, and it is not very nice to say such things.

Yes, but in order for the analogy to work, Marian devotion would have to be De_Montfort’s religion, as I have claimed, but you’re saying this is not so, so I’m not sure the analogy can work.

 

[Immacolata]

Yes, but in order for the analogy to work, Marian devotion would have to be De_Montfort’s religion, as I have claimed, but you’re saying this is not so, so I’m not sure the analogy can work.

Did you read anything else I wrote in that post?

From what I can understand, the analogy works — Marian devotion is important to De_Montfort, albeit not his/her religion. As well, your Catholicism seems to be important to you, however it is your religion. Still, they are two things that are important to each of you, and, because of this, I believe the analogy works; but, as I said, perhaps my (name removed by moderator)ut on this subject does not matter.

 

[JRKH]

OK, let’s get this all out in the open. It is precisely because of your anger at the idea of someone not doing Marian devotion that I think you worship Mary. I would feel exactly the same way as you do if someone claimed to be Catholic but ignored Jesus. No one is required to have Marian devotion, and if you’re saying that not to do so is to reject God and therefore be damned, then that’s a heresy, just as it would be if I said everyone either believes in literal 6-day creation or rejects God.

For some of us, devotion to Mary does not lead us to Christ. For my (physical) mother, the Old Testament does not lead her to Christ; it scares her, with all the stories of God killing people. But I’m not going to say she has to read it to be saved. That would be heresy. I can quote St. Jerome all I want, but that would still be heresy. I’m not going to go into the details, but you have no idea what kinds of crosses I bear, and to insist that Matian devotion will lead me to Christ I presumptuous.

Frankly, if Marian devotion will make me act the way you do around it, it scares me off even more. I don’t like the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, and since what you say is so influenced by him, that makes me not like what you have to say.

A couple of things here are worth addressing - hopefully to the benefit of all…

To my friend De_Montfort, Here again we can see how the zeal of a person can actually work contrary to the desires of our Lady herself.

To my friend mathematoons, One should be careful about saying that we are not “required to have Marion Devotion”, for the Catechism speaks of the devotion of the Church to Our Lady and we are members of the Church.
The Dogmatic Constitution of the Church (Lumen Gentium) speaks to this as well and certainly we are bound by the teachings of Lumen Gentium. (See Para 52 and on…).
So to me the issue of “Marion devotion” is not one of if we should have it but rather what specific form that devotion takes in our personal journeys.
This is what I see as being the friction between yourself and De_Montfort…A disagreement over the degree and method.

But - to everyone - there can be little doubt that the Church herself recognizes that Marion devotion can be taken too far. In the above mentioned Lumen Gentium, Para 67 the Church “…the cult…of the blessed Virgin be generously fostered…” BUT that, “…theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.”
“…let them rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety. Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church.”
(Bolding mine)

So I would say to all…that we take these words to heart and seek carefully to promote true devotion to Our Lady while also recognizing and allowing for varying degrees styles and expression of that devotion.

Peace
James

 

[DebChris]

A couple of things here are worth addressing - hopefully to the benefit of all…

To my friend De_Montfort, Here again we can see how the zeal of a person can actually work contrary to the desires of our Lady herself.

To my friend mathematoons, One should be careful about saying that we are not “required to have Marion Devotion”, for the Catechism speaks of the devotion of the Church to Our Lady and we are members of the Church.
The Dogmatic Constitution of the Church (Lumen Gentium) speaks to this as well and certainly we are bound by the teachings of Lumen Gentium. (See Para 52 and on…).
So to me the issue of “Marion devotion” is not one of if we should have it but rather what specific form that devotion takes in our personal journeys.
This is what I see as being the friction between yourself and De_Montfort…A disagreement over the degree and method.

But - to everyone - there can be little doubt that the Church herself recognizes that Marion devotion can be taken too far. In the above mentioned Lumen Gentium, Para 67 the Church “…the cult…of the blessed Virgin be generously fostered…” BUT that, “…theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.”
“…let them rightly illustrate the duties and privileges of the Blessed Virgin which always look to Christ, the source of all truth, sanctity and piety. Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church.”
(Bolding mine)

So I would say to all…that we take these words to heart and seek carefully to promote true devotion to Our Lady while also recognizing and allowing for varying degrees styles and expression of that devotion.

Peace
James

I have read references on other threads to Scott Hahn’s analogy of Mary as the moon reflecting the light of the Sun which is Christ.

 

[JRKH]

I have read references on other threads to Scott Hahn’s analogy of Mary as the moon reflecting the light of the Sun which is Christ.

A good and sound analogy.

Our Mother - being a model disciple - does that to which we are all called…To reflect the light of the Son. Christ is the light of the world and we receive our light from Him.

Peace
James

 

[De_Montfort]

OK, let’s get this all out in the open. It is precisely because of your anger at the idea of someone not doing Marian devotion that I think you worship Mary. I would feel exactly the same way as you do if someone claimed to be Catholic but ignored Jesus. No one is required to have Marian devotion, and if you’re saying that not to do so is to reject God and therefore be damned, then that’s a heresy, just as it would be if I said everyone either believes in literal 6-day creation or rejects God.

For some of us, devotion to Mary does not lead us to Christ. For my (physical) mother, the Old Testament does not lead her to Christ; it scares her, with all the stories of God killing people. But I’m not going to say she has to read it to be saved. That would be heresy. I can quote St. Jerome all I want, but that would still be heresy. I’m not going to go into the details, but you have no idea what kinds of crosses I bear, and to insist that Matian devotion will lead me to Christ I presumptuous.

Frankly, if Marian devotion will make me act the way you do around it, it scares me off even more. I don’t like the writings of St. Louis de Montfort, and since what you say is so influenced by him, that makes me not like what you have to say.

Who said I was angry? Just because I love Mary and stand up for her in no way makes me an “angry” person. The point of my post as I quoted and stand by Father Faber statement that thinking Mary is one thing and Jesus is another is not to understand devotion owed to Jesus Christ himself and can be a dangerous error. They are NOT opposed.

I just merely gave a warning that out right rejection of Mary is dangerous and should be done with caution because I got the feeling from your posts that you would be happy if they would take away Mary from Our Church completely and you would be fine with that.

Just because I follow St. Louis de Montfort does not mean that he nor I “worship” Mary. I have followed him for years, studied and prayed over his writting many, many, times. It is completely Christocentric and Trinatarin, “God Alone.” Anything he gives witness to is how GOD has exalted Mary. He is very clear that Mary is a perfect way to Christ and Christ is our goal. Devotion to Mary starts with Jesus and ends with Jesus. It’s ok to love Mary and like St. Maximilian Kolbe said we will never as much as we try love her with a love equal to which Jesus loves her.

JRKH:

I am happy to forgive - I too take offense when Mary is attacked. However it is important to a) recognize what is an “attack” and what is legitimate discussion and b) choosing the proper methods to respond in each case

I may have jumped the gun on this thread but OP had several threads on Mary. One response said “Devotion to Mary leads me to Mary”. That is a misrepresentation of True devoiton to Mary. Mary can only lead to Jesus not herself, she is not our final end Jesus is. I stand by my quote of Father Faber it’s a dangerous error to think devotion to Mary is one thing and devotion to Jesus another as if they oppose each other.

It’s ok to love Mary, its ok to serve Her as Queen Mother and to honor her, praise her. And as the Catholic Church teachs through Popes and Saints that what is given to Mary is immediately given to Jesus.

I am not trying to “push” anyone for it took me time and prayer to finally understand St. Louis de Montfort, I just wish to say it’s ok and in line with the Catholic Church, Blessed John Paul II said St. Louis de Montforts teaching must bear fruit, it is full of wisdom and a way of living.

When someone says we should not go to Mary and only to Jesus my heart melts for the misunderstanding of Our Mother, if we allow her she will glorify and worship her Son in us in a way that we can never imagine.

Again forgive my zeal, and again it’s ok to have a great love for Mary.
God Bless

 

[mathematoons]

Who said I was angry? Just because I love Mary and stand up for her in no way makes me an “angry” person.

You sounded quite angry in your posts, maybe it’s your zeal with a lot invisible due to the textual nature of this medium of communication, I don’t know. But I had the distinct feeling you were upset with me.

I just merely gave a warning that out right rejection of Mary is dangerous and should be done with caution because I got the feeling from your posts that you would be happy if they would take away Mary from Our Church completely and you would be fine with that.

I never said I rejected Mary. She is important in salvation history, no one who believes can “reject” her. I don’t believe in taking Mary away from the Church completely, that would be heresy if I believed that.

I may have jumped the gun on this thread but OP had several threads on Mary. One response said “Devotion to Mary leads me to Mary”. That is a misrepresentation of True devoiton to Mary. Mary can only lead to Jesus not herself, she is not our final end Jesus is. I stand by my quote of Father Faber it’s a dangerous error to think devotion to Mary is one thing and devotion to Jesus another as if they oppose each other.

I have several threads because when I discern taking a new direction, I grill people. I did this before my conversion. People hated it, but I had to know the truth. And the reason I said that devotion to Mary only leads me to Mary is because (follow me closely here) devotion to Mary only leads me to Mary. If I become a saint, it will be by loving Jesus, not another saint, even if it is Mary. I guess it does lead others to Jesus, but not me. Like I said, maybe I’m just stupid.

It’s ok to love Mary, its ok to serve Her as Queen Mother and to honor her, praise her. And as the Catholic Church teachs through Popes and Saints that what is given to Mary is immediately given to Jesus.

I don’t care what the saints say, I only care what is official Church teaching. Saints disagree with each other, and some have been de-canonized.

Again forgive my zeal, and again it’s ok to have a great love for Mary.
God Bless

I forgive your zeal. Please forgive mine.

 

[DebChris]

The “saint only leads me to the saint” doesn’t quite work for me. Why is the saint a saint? Why is Saint Francis, for example, a Saint? Saint Francis is a Saint because he made a choice in his life. He chose Christ. He gave us one example of how we might live a life that follows in Christ’s footsteps. What each saint has in common is his or her decision to follow Christ. Each saint’s life should, therefore point to Christ.

Mary made a choice. Her fiat, her yes, gave us Christ.
And when Christ gave Mary to John as his mother, He gave her to His Church. He gave her to us as our mother.

“When we honor the mother, we honor the Son.”
The Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary is based on Revelation 12:1-6.

 

[JM3]

I don’t care what the saints say, I only care what is official Church teaching. Saints disagree with each other, and some have been de-canonized.

Did you even bother to read the links I gave you in post 2? You haven’t said anything, so I guess you ignored it.

What saints have been “de-canonized”? Do you have proof? (and, no, being take off the calendar is not being “de-canonized”)

 

[mathematoons]

The “saint only leads me to the saint” doesn’t quite work for me.

I’m so glad everyone on here knows more about what goes on for me than I do.

Seriously, I’m sick of no one believing me when I bring this up. I don’t take kindly to being called a liar. Every time I discuss this, it ends up with someone telling me exactly what you’re saying.

How would you like it if I said to you, “the ‘we don’t worship Mary, we venerate her’ thing doesn’t work for me?” It’s that offensive.

But somehow, it’s ok to offend those of us whose spiritual life is a little different from the norm.

 

[JM3]

Seriously, I’m sick of no one believing me when I bring this up. I don’t take kindly to being called a liar. Every time I discuss this, it ends up with someone telling me exactly what you’re saying.

If you didn’t want opinion or criticism, then why make your spirituality public? If you’re pushing an agenda, and I’m not saying you are, then you must expect negativity.

 

[JRKH]

I may have jumped the gun on this thread but OP had several threads on Mary. One response said “Devotion to Mary leads me to Mary”. That is a misrepresentation of True devotion to Mary. Mary can only lead to Jesus not herself, she is not our final end Jesus is. I stand by my quote of Father Faber it’s a dangerous error to think devotion to Mary is one thing and devotion to Jesus another as if they oppose each other.

The OP was expressing his own experience…that’s why he said"
"The stumbling block remains for me personally, however. I have read and heard a lot about the idea that Marian devotion is supposed to lead me to Jesus. No matter how much this idea is explained to me, one inescapable fact remains: it does not lead me to Jesus. Devotion to Mary leads me to Mary. Devotion to any saint leads me to that saint. It is devotion to Jesus that leads me to Jesus.
)Emphasis mine)
OK - so it might be that he “isn’t doing it right”. It might also be that the best path for him right now does not involve a deep personal Marion devotion. As his last line says - for him concentrating on Jesus leads him to Jesus…
Why not just encourage that and perhaps Jesus will lead him to His Mother…Have you thought of that?

It’s ok to love Mary, its ok to serve Her as Queen Mother and to honor her, praise her. And as the Catholic Church teaches through Popes and Saints that what is given to Mary is immediately given to Jesus.

Agreed…

I am not trying to “push” anyone

And yet at least three people now have stated that “pushing” is exactly what it feels like. Perhaps it’s time you sat down with our Momma Mary and discussed if your methodology is helping or hurting the cause you so zealously stand by.

for it took me time and prayer to finally understand St. Louis de Montfort,

Then please allow others time as well…Especially if they are new Catholics.

I just wish to say it’s ok and in line with the Catholic Church, Blessed John Paul II said St. Louis de Montforts teaching must bear fruit, it is full of wisdom and a way of living.

And when a person is ready to eat of that fruit they will be drawn to it by God.

When someone says we should not go to Mary and only to Jesus my heart melts for the misunderstanding of Our Mother, if we allow her she will glorify and worship her Son in us in a way that we can never imagine.

Here again - I would have to ask you to show me where anyone said that we, “should not go to Mary and only to Jesus”. I have only seen people saying that it is OK to go directly to Jesus. Something that I can assure you, our Blessed Mother is perfectly fine with.

Again forgive my zeal,

Zeal properly disciplined, channeled and applied is a good thing. Zeal not properly disciplined is dangerous. Again - I speak from many years experience as well as observation.

and again it’s ok to have a great love for Mary.

Amen - now lets work together to help her accomplish her desire and goal that you so often point out…Let’s work to lead others to her Son…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

The “saint only leads me to the saint” doesn’t quite work for me. Why is the saint a saint? Why is Saint Francis, for example, a Saint? Saint Francis is a Saint because he made a choice in his life. He chose Christ. He gave us one example of how we might live a life that follows in Christ’s footsteps. What each saint has in common is his or her decision to follow Christ. Each saint’s life should, therefore point to Christ.

Mary made a choice. Her fiat, her yes, gave us Christ.
And when Christ gave Mary to John as his mother, He gave her to His Church. He gave her to us as our mother.

“When we honor the mother, we honor the Son.”
The Little Crown of the Blessed Virgin Mary is based on Revelation 12:1-6.

A very nice post…
I think the thing to remember is that it can take time for people to deepen in their understanding of the faith - and some of the ways that we talk.
When we read about and consider the choices made by various saints they can be of great encouragement to us on our own journey and choices for Christ and the Kingdom.
Of course if a person is “inspired” by one saint this year, they might be inspired by a different saint next year - depending on their life situations. But the constant must always be the same as the saints…Living for Christ.

Peace
James

 

[maltmom]

OK - so it might be that he “isn’t doing it right”. It might also be that the best path for him right now does not involve a deep personal Marion devotion. As his last line says - for him concentrating on Jesus leads him to Jesus…
Why not just encourage that and perhaps Jesus will lead him to His Mother…Have you thought of that?

Then please allow others time as well…Especially if they are new Catholics.

As a new Catholic these were the words you gave me about seven months ago James. When I converted I had a relationship with Jesus. I did not have a relationship with Mary. I loved her for her role in God’s plan for our salvation. I tried praying the Rosary, but it was a devotion I wasn’t comfortable doing.

Around that time several threads similar to those recently posted were going up. I was trying to embrace everything about my Catholic faith and what if had to offer. There was one poster, who will remain nameless, whose zeal was pushing me away. I shot off PMs to Father Serpa and Brother JR. I cried to my Priest in confession that I needed to meet with him b/c it put a big stumbling block in my Catholic journey. The more posts I read by this person the more freaked out I became. Brother JR agreed with me that it was best that I stay out of these threads until a later date when I had a better understanding of what was being posted. My Priest never did meet with me. I changed churches and finally met with my new Priest a month and a half later. I started off by telling him of my love and devotion to Mary. Then told him about some of the things I’d been reading on the forum and how they pushed me away from Mary instead of a deeper devotion to her. I even used the words “they come across as Mary worship rather than Mary devotion.” He is familiar with CAF. For all I know he may post here. He said that he’s seen posts about Marion devotion that have made him cringe. He agreed that we don’t know the heart and mind of the person making these posts, but that they do come across as over the top. I felt much better when he told me that my heart and mind were in the right place regarding devotion to Mary.

I now pray the Rosary. I no longer have a problem asking Mary to intercede for me. After a particularly bad day I asked her to wrap her arms around me as only a Mother can do. I fell asleep feeling like she was holding me.

I still have minor knee jerks to some of the things I read and hear. Now they don’t make me question my faith.

 

[JRKH]

Maltmom,
Thank you for that beautiful testimony. I am sure that it will be an encouragement to others.

Peace
James