Discipline for bad behavior which occurs in church

[Holly3278]

Thank you. I am going to try what you mentioned in the first paragraph. I think this might work. Colton is a little snuggle bug too.

 

[Herculees]

If your child is under 5 do you have a picture book of the Mass.
I highly encourage you to get one. Call your diocese and ask
them where you local Catholic religious store is. If there is none
around you, you could order one online through the Daughter’s
of St. Paul a/k/a Pauline Books & Media Center.

If the child is 5 or older how about taking them to church for an
hour prayer and explain prayer to them. Let them no prayer is
talking internally to Jesus about what is going on in their life.
What their hopes are. What their troubles are? Suggest that
they ask Jesus to help them treat other’s better i.e. no hitting mom.

 

[F_Marturana]

Do you have a good friend to go with? Or even a teenager who could help babysit?

 

[poche]

How old is your son?

 

[F_Marturana]

Oh no this is absolutely wrong, and illegal.

Why would you advise a mom to tie up her toddler?

April, disregard any “parenting” advice from this person.

 

[Spyridon]

Oh no this is absolutely wrong, and illegal.

Why would you advise a mom to tie up her toddler?

April, disregard any “parenting” advice from this person.

I didn’t say to tie up her toddler.

I said put a ziptie on his hands for 10 minutes when he hits someone. Teach him while he’s young not to hit people, because if he keeps it up he’ll be getting his hands bound for much more than 10 minutes with steel cuffs.

Assuming he’s over the age of 5 anyway.

And if it’s illegal to do so, oh well. I guess I’m a horrific child abusing monster for believing in discipline.

 

[F_Marturana]

There is discipline and then there is abuse. You advocated abuse. Zip tying a child’s hand is abuse.

I would not hesitate to intervene if I saw someone do that to a toddler.

 

[Spyridon]

Zip tying a child’s hand is abuse

I disagree.

I think ziptying their hands for a few minutes is a form of creative discipline for the crime of hitting another person.

Guess I’m a monster. It’s fine with me though - several authors of Sacred Scripture were also child abusing monsters by todays standards.

I’d rather cast my lot with the Sacred Author’s than todays godless society.

 

[Spyridon]

What I find most interesting is that the same godless children of satan who would judge me as a child abusing monster for disciplining a child and condemn me and lock me up - these same people have no issue with ripping a baby limb from limb out of its mothers womb.

I’m so thankful my morality transcends the godless nation I live in. I feel pity for poor souls who have fallen to such sick thinking.

 

[StarMapp]

Calls for post-mass deprivation. After mass he knows he will go on his merry way having a nice day with his friends. Limit this. It will call for some work and consistency by you. If you need to physically restrain him, do so. Privileges should be withheld and he should be told why you are applying measures as you do them.

Keep increasing these measures has the incidences increases. It is important that you do not waver.

Eventually he will learn their are consequences for bad behavior in this world. Best that you do it, than for society to do it when he’s an adult.They will be less caring than you will be.

This way he will not quickly associate mass with immediate punishment. Do this for all his bad conduct. Whatever the remedy, make sure it hurts so that it matters and remembers next time. Initially, he may even spend full days in restraint. But eventually he’ll get the picture.

 

[casslean]

I disagree.

I think ziptying their hands for a few minutes is a form of creative discipline for the crime of hitting another person.

The courts would not agree with you. You don’t apply restraints to children, particularly not to toddlers. Not only is it completely ineffective as a discipline method, as they cannot make the connection, it’s considered cruel and humiliating. We restrain criminals, not children.

To the OP - you need something to occupy him during Mass. He’s not yet three. Bring a colouring book or quiet toy, and reward good behaviour. Make sure he’s had lots of activity time before going to Mass. Don’t ask him to sit quietly for half an hour before Mass. And if it’s possible, give him some limits where he can move around within the pew (but not run around the church).

As an aside, I was once helping a family with a number of small children, one of whom was a very busy two year old who wanted to run around the church. I was holding the child with me during the entrance procession, and the priest leaned over and said. “Just let her run. It’s fine.” He then greeted us all by reminding us that we should all have the same joy and enthusiasm for the start of the day as this child. Made her parents feel better.

 

[Spyridon]

Not only is it completely ineffective as a discipline method, as they cannot make the connection, it’s considered cruel and humiliating. We restrain criminals, not children.

What about if you made a sort of discipline game out of it?

Teach him that hitting is bad, and when bad people hit other people it’s called assault. Then teach him when you assault someone you get arrested.

Then the next time he hits, say “oh now you assaulted someone, now you get arrested” and then “arrest” him with a ziptie.

Obviously don’t put it on too tight, and then when he gets uncomfortable and apologizes or after a few minutes, take the tie off.

 

[casslean]

Have you dealt with many two year olds?

If it’s a game, it’s not discipline. It’s a game. My nephew would have me tie up his hands all the time when he was little because it was funny and a game. It wasn’t a punishment.

Discipline is discipline, and it has to be appropriate to the age and reasonably likely to be effective.

And a ziptie is always way too harsh to event put on a child’s skin.

 

[MikeInVA]

I don’t agree with abortion, and I don’t agree with tying a child’s hands together. There have to be better ways to discipline a child than that.

 

[MikeInVA]

What about if you made a sort of discipline game out of it?

That is beyond bizarre.

 

[Spyridon]

Have you dealt with many two year olds?

I wouldn’t tie a two year olds hands or use any sort of corporal punishment on a 2 year old at all.

IMO, corporal punishment is only effective between the ages of about 5 and 10.

 

[casslean]

Then you probably should have read the entire thread. The OP’s child is a toddler.

Also, there is fairly sound evidence to show that type of “discipline” inflicted on the 5-10 age range merely serves to damage the trust bond between parent and child.

 

[Spyridon]

That is beyond bizarre.

I dunno, see to me it’s not.

I’m struggling big time here equating disciplining a child in what I view as a relatively innocuous manner with abuse.

To me abuse is something which leaves marks, draws blood, breaks bones, or kills.

I’m really struggling to see ziptied hands for a few minutes as abuse.

So here’s a moral theology question:

A 9 year old kid hits his mother and his mother zip ties his hands for 3 minutes, that’s abuse.

The same 9 year old goes up to a cop and kicks him in the groin, and the cop handcuffs him and puts him in the back of the cruiser. Is that abuse?

 

[F_Marturana]

Good advice.

I would even suggest waiting a bit and not bring him at all for a few weeks, then start again. At that age behavior improves as they mature, and in a couple of weeks he might be easier to handle.

 

[casslean]

The police officer actually wouldn’t handcuff the nine year old. They have standards for dealing with children.

To you, abuse leaves marks. What about the parent that berates and degrades their child every day? That belittles and humiliates that child?

It won’t leave marks. But it does immeasurable harm to a child.

Abuse is much broader than leaving marks.