Discouraging a relationship based on the partner's parents?

[EasterJoy]

True, but when they get all starry-eyed, rational thought sometimes takes a back seat.

“Starry-eyed” happens a lot more often to young people who are starved for approval. Romance isn’t just hormones. It can be as much irrational fear as irrational desire, and I’m not so sure the fear doesn’t cause way more trouble in the long run. It is where all sorts of insecurities play out. We all have those, but our families can help make us far less vulnerable to those irrational fears.

Girls who have supportive fathers are far less vulnerable to sweet talk and the “glamour of evil” from men. They are less willing to let themselves be used by someone with selfish intent. If their father is both emotionally supportive and also lends them confidence in their own growing ability to navigate the world and to handle the consequences of their own choices, they’re much less anxious to find validation in the attentions of a boyfriend. They are more likely to hold out for a worthy partner, because they know they are worthy to be one themselves.

Help your daughter to learn to be un-cowed by bullies, to see them as humans but not to make any excuses for them and to be frankly and calmly intolerant of their unacceptable behavior. She won’t be likely to pulled into the situation you’re talking about without her eyes open about it.

 

[pianistclare]

If you go down this path you’re trying to justify, you’ll be the overbearing in-law you fear for your daughters.

+1

Plus, the tendency to always ask a question then proceed to argue every single point brought up. :banghead:

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If you go down this path you’re trying to justify, you’ll be the overbearing in-law you fear for your daughters.

Not trying to justify, just trying to make a valid point. And it’s not just girls who make rash or regrettable decisions while in a starry-eyed state. I know a fair number of people whose significant other was a completely different person in the environment in which they met them (college or whatever) than they were when they returned to a more familiar environment. That great person suddenly changed into an abusive ogre, spineless ninny, ultra-jealous psycho, etc. Unfortunately, by that time they’d convinced themselves they were in love and that they could change the person back into the person they’d met. My point is that a person can let their hormones get the best of them, regardless of their upbringing. I also don’t think it’s just parents who should be looking out for a person (I’ve had friends get mad at me or other friends for not urging them to put on the brakes or abandon a relationship), but I asked this from a parent’s perspective.

As far as questioning the points others bring up, what sense is there in bringing up a point and not discussing it thoroughly?

 

[Edmundus1581]

I had a friend once who joked that when he’s dating someone he checks out not just their parents, but the grandparents also!

He was joking, but there is something in his point that however a person presents themself in dating (albeit quite sincerely) you can learn a lot about the “real” person from their family of origin. Obviously, nobody is going to inherit all their parents’ characteristics, but it’s a good start. In my experience, fundamental values, beliefs and expectations can be more deeply ingrained than a person is aware of. There is something in the TV shows of mis-matched couples from mis-matched backgrounds. If one of my daughters were dating a man who came from a family with a domineering father I’d be concerned even if the young man seems quite a gentleman. He may intend not to behave like his father, but he may have an unconscious belief that a woman’s place is to do what she’s told. Similarly, attitudes to money (thrifty or spendthrift) are often passed on, unconsciously.

As I get older I become more and more conscious of how my basic values (as distinct from specific religious beliefs) were shaped during my formative years. I became a Catholic and my family remained Protestant, but I suspect I would have more in common with a non-Catholic who shares my family’s values than someone who is a Catholic but with different inherited values.

But then, “opposites attract” - and the fun starts!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Not trying to justify, just trying to make a valid point. And it’s not just girls who make rash or regrettable decisions while in a starry-eyed state. I know a fair number of people whose significant other was a completely different person in the environment in which they met them (college or whatever) than they were when they returned to a more familiar environment. That great person suddenly changed into an abusive ogre, spineless ninny, ultra-jealous psycho, etc. Unfortunately, by that time they’d convinced themselves they were in love and that they could change the person back into the person they’d met. My point is that a person can let their hormones get the best of them, regardless of their upbringing. I also don’t think it’s just parents who should be looking out for a person (I’ve had friends get mad at me or other friends for not urging them to put on the brakes or abandon a relationship), but I asked this from a parent’s perspective.

As far as questioning the points others bring up, what sense is there in bringing up a point and not discussing it thoroughly?

If your adult child, who is serious about their partner, is duped by these ultra-crazy in-laws and a secretly spineless spouse, how on earth do you think you as an outsider would possibly see it and be able to interject in a way that doesn’t make you look crazy, paranoid, and overprotective?

Frankly, this path may very well lead your daughters’ partners’ parents to pull them aside and ask if this Gordon guy is really someone they want to live with as a FIL for the rest of their lives, especially if your daughters don’t promptly shut this behavior down.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

In your scenario you have the perspective of already knowing the potential boyfriend’s parents but when the time comes you might not meet them until the couple is talking marriage. Personally, I was tuned into what kind of people my ex’s parents were. I had an idea of which ones I would have liked having as in-laws and which ones I would want to live across the country from. Basically, you probably won’t have to warn your adult children about their partner’s parents; they will already have a clue. The tricky part is if it’s a deal breaker.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I agree that it’s not always apparent. One friend describes behavior that can only be classified as abuse. However, I’ve met their in-laws many times and they seem like some of the nicest, sweetest people you can imagine. At the same time, this person was apparently talking about their ill treatment long before the engagement, even, so it was at least evident to some people. In other cases, the parents’ behavior really stands out. I don’t know that I’d be able to refrain from telling my girls to steer clear in a situation like that.

Let’s say everything you claim is 100% true. Do you expect to tell a daughter of marriageable age, which in current US society is at least mid-20s, to “steer clear” and have her immediately say “Yes Dad, I’ll break up with him right now and make sure the next man I get engaged to isn’t only acceptable to you, but has parents who meet your standards, too”.

Unless you’re planning to teach your daughters to court the Duggar way, meaning they’d have to present all possible suitors to you for approval, BEFORE a “relationship” even starts. Then you could certainly have the power to check up on their families and decide if they meet your standards.

But if that’s not what you’re planning, then how can you even expect to be in a situation where you “tell” adult women to “stay clear” of a marriage, and have them obey you without question?

Most on CAF do not seem to be raising their children in a way that means they get to have authority over them way into adulthood. Hence the overwhelmingly negative reactions to the scenario you present.

 

[Catholic1954]

Raise your daughter well. Teach her how to pick a boyfriend/husband that will treat her as an equal and with respect. Then, when a guy, like this poor little kid will turn out to be, tries to get her attention or take her out, she will know what to do.

 

[EasterJoy]

I had a friend once who joked that when he’s dating someone he checks out not just their parents, but the grandparents also!

He was joking, but there is something in his point that however a person presents themself in dating (albeit quite sincerely) you can learn a lot about the “real” person from their family of origin. Obviously, nobody is going to inherit all their parents’ characteristics, but it’s a good start. In my experience, fundamental values, beliefs and expectations can be more deeply ingrained than a person is aware of. There is something in the TV shows of mis-matched couples from mis-matched backgrounds. If one of my daughters were dating a man who came from a family with a domineering father I’d be concerned even if the young man seems quite a gentleman. He may intend not to behave like his father, but he may have an unconscious belief that a woman’s place is to do what she’s told. Similarly, attitudes to money (thrifty or spendthrift) are often passed on, unconsciously.

As I get older I become more and more conscious of how my basic values (as distinct from specific religious beliefs) were shaped during my formative years. I became a Catholic and my family remained Protestant, but I suspect I would have more in common with a non-Catholic who shares my family’s values than someone who is a Catholic but with different inherited values.

But then, “opposites attract” - and the fun starts!

If you teach your children that they will be judged by sensible people on how they treat those closest to them and how they treat people in the service industry who have to take whatever the customers dish out, they’ll learn to value the habit of treating people well when you could get away with not doing it. Teach them how to say not just “yes” but also “no” when they ought to, even when “yes” seems the most “nice,” and they’ll learn to value the ability to say “no” graciously but firmly. Teach them to say “thank you” when they could get away with not doing it, and they’ll learn to look to appreciate the unappreciated.

In other words, teach your family to be the family you want your daughter to marry into. Insist that your sons treat your daughter the way you want her husband to treat her. Give her the dignity that you expect him to give her. Don’t belittle her opinion or act as if all she needs to be a “good” woman is to listen to you and do as she is told without question. If she grows up with the experience of being treated with respect even though she is under your authority, she’ll have a much easier time recognizing toxic leadership and unhealthy family situations.

 

[Lorelei12]

His behavior and the marriage jokes, though, made me think of friends who have been or are in awful marriages and who can or do point to their in-laws as the source of most of their misery. Had someone encouraged them to think more about what they were getting into, would their situations be different?

Anyone who is in a bad marriage and blames the in-laws for it is pointing fingers at the wrong person. If a spouse’s parents are unbearable, and the spouse doesn’t enforce boundaries, the spouse is responsible for its effect on the marriage. Encourage your daughter to find a spouse who puts marriage first, and it won’t matter what the in-laws do.

Also, my parents met my husband’s parents at the rehearsal dinner. You probably won’t even meet any prospective in-laws until things are already quite serious.

 

[egretps]

Healthy boundaries seem to be the key.

My parents also didn’t meet my in-laws until really late in the game. My husband and I both met each others families early such as the first month of dating.

I’m hoping my kids have a healthy sense of self and healthy boundaries looong before they are getting engaged.

I wouldn’t count someone out of the running just because they have a couple or many jack-a-lopes in their family tree. It’s up to them to be healthy.

Teach your children to pray for their future spouse or vocation.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

If your adult child, who is serious about their partner, is duped by these ultra-crazy in-laws and a secretly spineless spouse, how on earth do you think you as an outsider would possibly see it and be able to interject in a way that doesn’t make you look crazy, paranoid, and overprotective?

Frankly, this path may very well lead your daughters’ partners’ parents to pull them aside and ask if this Gordon guy is really someone they want to live with as a FIL for the rest of their lives, especially if your daughters don’t promptly shut this behavior down.

I’m not saying they will be duped; I’m just saying it’s a possibility. I’ve seen some really poor relationship decisions from very stable people who came from strong, positive upbringings. I’ve also seen plenty of situations where someone entered into a disastrous relationship, nobody said a thing and then afterward the person couldn’t understand why nobody warned them.

At the same time, I realize that saying something could have (not “definitely will” but “could have”) unintended consequences. That said, should one feel comfortable holding one’s tongue and hoping for the best, or do we owe it to our children and our consciences to make an effort?

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Most on CAF do not seem to be raising their children in a way that means they get to have authority over them way into adulthood. Hence the overwhelmingly negative reactions to the scenario you present.

I never presented a scenario where I would have authority over my children into adulthood. I posed a pretty simple question and made it very clear what I was asking. One piece of advice I’ve given my kids and others is that you’re not marrying a person; you’re marrying into a family. While my girls are too young to have to worry about that currently, it’s something I’ve urged a few other people to really think about–both those who are not yet married and those who are married and don’t seem to think their spouse should have any ties to their family. I’ve had people tell me that if they had given that serious consideration during their dating/courting years, they wouldn’t have ended up in their current situation.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Anyone who is in a bad marriage and blames the in-laws for it is pointing fingers at the wrong person. If a spouse’s parents are unbearable, and the spouse doesn’t enforce boundaries, the spouse is responsible for its effect on the marriage. Encourage your daughter to find a spouse who puts marriage first, and it won’t matter what the in-laws do.

Also, my parents met my husband’s parents at the rehearsal dinner. You probably won’t even meet any prospective in-laws until things are already quite serious.

An inability to set boundaries is certainly a factor but there are also some situations wherein setting boundaries isn’t appropriate and you have no choice but to deal with family members. I know one can’t account for all possibilities but if one’s future in-laws are the sort who could strain a marriage to the breaking point, I believe that requires a bit more discernment.

I know people whose parents didn’t meet the in-laws until the rehearsal dinner or later. Others knew them nearly from the start of the relationship, or had even known one another long before the couple became a couple. On a personal note, one of my mom’s favorite pastimes was trying to set me and my brothers up with the daughters of her friends. She had the peculiar knack of always picking for me the ones with psychopaths for mothers, which was one of the primary reasons I never gave any of them serious consideration.

 

[DarkLight]

An inability to set boundaries is certainly a factor but there are also some situations wherein setting boundaries isn’t appropriate and you have no choice but to deal with family members. I know one can’t account for all possibilities but if one’s future in-laws are the sort who could strain a marriage to the breaking point, I believe that requires a bit more discernment.

Boundaries are always appropriate. You just have to know how to use them.

There are people who go completely no-contact with their family of origin. If the control attempts are bad enough, and the family will not stop, this can be justified. And there’s always the option of not responding - you don’t have to answer the phone, and visits can be kept short if the family can’t behave.

 

[EasterJoy]

…One piece of advice I’ve given my kids and others is that you’re not marrying a person; you’re marrying into a family…

It will serve your daughters well to have heard this the entire time they’re growing up.

It’s not that there isn’t anyone who has toxic in-laws who is happily married in spite of it. It is that you have to realize what you’re getting into when you’re getting into it.

You can’t keep your children from making poor choices. You can teach them what a good choice looks like, and to appreciate it. You can teach them that it requires effort and sacrifice to create a mature relationship, and what that looks like. You can insist they exercise the elements of a mature relationship: how to complain in a healthy way, how to handle complaints in a healthy way, when and how to say “yes” and when and how to say “no,” and so on.

I can’t number the families I thought were in great shape growing up that I see now that I am grown were emotional train wrecks: hidden alcoholism, expressions of contempt, defensiveness, personal attacks, stonewalling, “gunny sacking” (building up complaints and dumping them all at once), “alliance building” (calling around to garner “public opinion” from peripherally-involved parties instead of dealing with problems by direct communication between the parties in conflict), domineering, passive aggression parading as “nice,” and so on, all kept hidden behind closed doors.

I had a friend with a great analogy. He said that treasury agents aren’t taught all the ways to counterfeit currency. Instead, they learn inside and out all the marks of legitimate currency. They learn the marks that need to be there before something is deemed “the real thing.”

Strive to be the “real thing” and don’t sugarcoat the things your family still has to work on. Every family has them. (Therapists quip that the definition of a dysfunctional family is “any family with more than one person in it.”) Recognize not “good families” and “bad families” but rather recognize elements you see that are helpful or counterproductive, such as a parent who doesn’t insist their child work on the interpersonal skills the child will need in adulthood.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

I can’t number the families I thought were in great shape growing up that I see now that I am grown were emotional train wrecks: hidden alcoholism, expressions of contempt, defensiveness, personal attacks, stonewalling, “gunny sacking” (building up complaints and dumping them all at once), “alliance building” (calling around to garner “public opinion” from peripherally-involved parties instead of dealing with problems by direct communication between the parties in conflict), domineering, passive aggression parading as “nice,” and so on, all kept hidden behind closed doors.

That’s one area where there’s a huge disconnect between us and a lot of the other people I know. We’re very open with our kids about pretty much everything. My wife and I, our families and most of our friends grew up with the don’t ask, don’t tell/closed doors type of upbringing. I consider that to be disastrous. Between us and people we know, some of things that have been swept under the rug because they weren’t topics kids (even 30-40 year old “kids”) should hear are serious health issues, mental health issues, alcoholism, abuse, etc.

All that considered, I don’t know that I could prevent myself from being open with my girls about a potentially disastrous situation. Even if I weren’t presenting it in a warning fashion, we’re very open with one another so I would be naturally inclined to be straightforward with them should they ask for opinions.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s one area where there’s a huge disconnect between us and a lot of the other people I know. We’re very open with our kids about pretty much everything. My wife and I, our families and most of our friends grew up with the don’t ask, don’t tell/closed doors type of upbringing. I consider that to be disastrous. Between us and people we know, some of things that have been swept under the rug because they weren’t topics kids (even 30-40 year old “kids”) should hear are serious health issues, mental health issues, alcoholism, abuse, etc.

All that considered, I don’t know that I could prevent myself from being open with my girls about a potentially disastrous situation. Even if I weren’t presenting it in a warning fashion, we’re very open with one another so I would be naturally inclined to be straightforward with them should they ask for opinions.

Sending your daughters into the world with a realistic view of the things that likable people are capable of is a very good thing. We also taught our sons that nice people can still become alcoholics and that addiction can and will ruin the character of people who can be trustworthy when they’re clean and sober. We taught them that there are good ways to cope with sadness, loneliness and emotional pain, but alcohol is NOT one of them…that is, the idea that “I’ve had a bad day, I need a drink” is a red flag.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Sending your daughters into the world with a realistic view of the things that likable people are capable of is a very good thing. We also taught our sons that nice people can still become alcoholics and that addiction can and will ruin the character of people who can be trustworthy when they’re clean and sober. We taught them that there are good ways to cope with sadness, loneliness and emotional pain, but alcohol is NOT one of them…that is, the idea that “I’ve had a bad day, I need a drink” is a red flag.

I could write a book about alcohol, alcoholics and the negative effects they bring about. Our girls have seen enough that, at least for the time being, they have no desire to ever drink. That’s a case where there’s no doubt that I’d discourage not just our girls but anyone I know from pursuing a relationship.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

An inability to set boundaries is certainly a factor but there are also some situations wherein setting boundaries isn’t appropriate and you have no choice but to deal with family members. I know one can’t account for all possibilities but if one’s future in-laws are the sort who could strain a marriage to the breaking point, I believe that requires a bit more discernment.

There is absolutely no situation where it is inappropriate to set boundaries with anyone. This is even more true when the person in question or interactions with them threatens your marital relationship.

If you teach your children that sometimes, you just have to let people run amok and harm your marriage or family, it won’t matter what kind of in-laws they have, because eventually, someone will notice their spinelessness and take advantage, be it a friend, co-worker, in-law, or even you.