Discuss: Confession Face to Face: Bad Idea?

[Vico]

wdtprs.com/blog/2012/10/quaeritur-face-to-face-confession-fr-z-rants/

Go read the article and let’s discuss it here. He takes a very interesting point with the problems of face to face confession:

Let’s have at it?

Better to have the option because some feel claustrophobic so it is hard for them to relax and focus.

 

[beehumble]

Face-to-face is a bad idea in the current climate of the priest sex scandal.

Our parish recently installed more box style confessionals and has moved towards that.

Two major advantages, I see with the box style in this current climate that dioceses should seriously consider:

1. no disgruntled or disturbed person can claim the priest abused them in the confessional to try to win a windfall in court or for whatever other reason, as they can with one-on-one room style confessions.
2. as countries try to pass laws forcing priests to 'tell-on" confessing pedophiles, the box-style makes this virtually impossible to do and hence pointless since the priest cannot see who it is anyway. I understand priests won’t break the seal of confession, but it both gives them cover and discourages legislatures from passing such laws in the first place since they would have no effect - the priest cannot clearly see the person confessing. Box-style confessionals can thus prevent legislatures from even trying this.

(not to mention a third benefit, I think most people prefer the box-style confessionals and hence more might go to confession)

God bless you

 

[po18guy]

Really, what is the point of face to face? To increase your humiliation? Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it, but for those who prefer it, I ask why?

The Priest acts in persona Christi. Do we allow ourselves to see Christ in his eyes? As I see it, if strength is perfected in weakness, then humility is good, especially if it leads to repentance and conversion. Is there a parish which has no screen? Never seen one without.

 

[g_ncl]

Anytime you receive face to face, it is purely because the priest has chosen to allow it in that instance

That’s good enough for me. I only need it the instance I go from the priest I go to

Well, here’s a few reasons: 1) space - since anonymous must always be available, there isn’t always room for both an anonymous and face-to-face option in the same space.

I don’t quite see what you mean, Corki. Does the priest not have an office? A sitting room? Confession is not liturgy and it does not need to happen in church. One time I confessed in the priest’s kitchen: we sat across each other at the kitchen table with cups of coffee in front of us. The last time I went to confession Fr. suggested we sit in the garden. Don’t priests in Texas have gardens? I bet you have much more sunshine than we do!

1. money

See above.

A priest might think that face-to-face with no one else within eyesight is not prudent.

I am sorry but this is exactly what I am a bit weary of. The priest surely knows that he isn’t going to do anything he shouldn’t. He should also be reasonably sure that the penitent won’t. I understand that he may expose himself to false allegations, that’s the sickness of our society, but I don’t think this should be an obstacte.

1. diocisan policy - not common in the US but in other countries, face-to-face is unheard of

I am sorry but in this you are mistaken. I am from Eastern Europe and as you can see on my profile, I live in England. Apart from emergencies I have never confessed any other way than face to face.

1. personal preference. You have expressed a strong preference for face-to-face. Why is it so hard to understand that a priest might have the opposite preference?

Because he is not the one confessing (when he does, he can do it as he prefers - oh, btw, have you ever met a priest who confesses in a confessional?). When he hears my confession, he acts as a servant of God’s people. And since I am not asking for anything illegal, illicit or unheard of, I think I should be able to confess face to face. This said, I would obviously not ask a priest who is uncomfortable with face to face confessions to hear my confession this way. I would probably never even get as far as going to him at all.

The Church does not allow a priest to only offer face-to-face confessions.

. Corki, I have clearly stated in my previous post that I did not support offering only f2f.

I don’t know of any parish that doesn’t have scheduled times.

Well, we have quite a few and also many churches have maybe half an hour a week + “and by appointment” on the notice board and the newsletter.

I was around when the Church suddenly allowed face-to-face and

Corki, confession was widely practised in the Church before the first joiner put a saw to the plank of wood that was going to be the first ever confessional. The practice of individual confession precedes confessional boxes.

I tried it (face-to-face) twice and didn’t go back for over 20 years.

Whereas I look forward to it. I am going this Saturday, already have the appointment and I am already happy when I think how I will get to sit down with Fr., probably in his sitting-room (way too cold for the garden in England now! ) and I will be able to openly and simply confess my sins to the Lord, with Fr. accompanying and helping me in this wonderful encounter.

 

[superamazingman]

I don’t quite see what you mean, Corki. Does the priest not have an office? A sitting room? Confession is not liturgy and it does not need to happen in church. One time I confessed in the priest’s kitchen: we sat across each other at the kitchen table with cups of coffee in front of us. The last time I went to confession Fr. suggested we sit in the garden. Don’t priests in Texas have gardens? I bet you have much more sunshine than we do!

But canon law says that confession should he heard in a confessional unless there’s a good reason. And not wanting to celebrate the sacrament in the normative way sure doesn’t seem like a good reason on it’s own.

If you have a confessional, you should be in it, Face to face or otherwise.

 

[Dies_Irae_1]

…oh, btw, have you ever met a priest who confesses in a confessional?..

Yes! I saw my priest walk out of the confessional one time. I guess he prefers the dark box + grille for himself too.

 

[po18guy]

Do you sleep with a screen, curtain, and wooden wall between you and your husband with no way to touch or even see him?

What kind of question is this? I thought that she explained her reasoning quite well. Would you knowingly force her into a clearly uncomfortable situation, even though the Church makes no such rigid requirement?

 

[mcw013]

I would like to see a confessional in the parish, but it honestly seems that no one in the Archdiocese uses confessionals at all, (from my observations at least). A couple times I visited parishes here, and people looked at me strangely when I asked them “Where is the confessional?” Many times some said “Sorry? Confessional?”

Anyway, I’m not here for an extremely long period, so while I’m here I’ll just do what everyone else does, and that means confession in the church without a confessional.

maybe your parish should look at investing in a confessional…

Can. 964 §2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

 

[superamazingman]

What kind of question is this? I thought that she explained her reasoning quite well. Would you knowingly force her into a clearly uncomfortable situation, even though the Church makes no such rigid requirement?

keep reading… see post 58

 

[TimothyH]

I confessed in the front seat of a "99 Ford once.

Father: Tim, can you give me a lift to the airport on Saturday?
Me: Yes Father. Can you hear my confession on the way?
Father: Sure, I have to pack my stole anyway (smiles). Can you pick me up by 8:30?

How anyone confesses is such a non issue. Do it in the way which is most comfortable for you. That’s all.

-Tim-

 

[superamazingman]

I would like to see a confessional in the parish, but it honestly seems that no one in the Archdiocese uses confessionals at all, (from my observations at least). A couple times I visited parishes here, and people looked at me strangely when I asked them “Where is the confessional?” Many times some said “Sorry? Confessional?”

Anyway, I’m not here for an extremely long period, so while I’m here I’ll just do what everyone else does, and that means confession in the church without a confessional.

Well… if they were more frequently used, instead of kitchens and gardens, we wouldn’t have such a problem, would we now? You kinda just proved my point.

 

[superamazingman]

I confessed in the front seat of a "99 Ford once.

Father: Tim, can you give me a lift to the airport on Saturday?
Me: Yes Father. Can you hear my confession on the way?
Father: Sure, I have to pack my stole anyway (smiles). Can you pick me up by 8:30?

How anyone confesses is such a non issue. Do it in the way which is most comfortable for you. That’s all.

I’ve confessed many different places as well, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a non issue, and say whatever you feel most comfortable doing is best. Canon law tells us to use confessionals whenever possible for a reason…

 

[Corki]

I don’t quite see what you mean, Corki. Does the priest not have an office? A sitting room? Confession is not liturgy and it does not need to happen in church. One time I confessed in the priest’s kitchen: we sat across each other at the kitchen table with cups of coffee in front of us. The last time I went to confession Fr. suggested we sit in the garden. Don’t priests in Texas have gardens? I bet you have much more sunshine than we do!

But the Church says that Confession is to be heard in a Confessional, in a Church unless there is a very good reason to do otherwise. It’s a Sacrament. The proper place for a Sacrament is the Church, not a kitchen.

Can. 964 §1. The proper place to hear sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

§2. The conference of bishops is to establish norms regarding the confessional; it is to take care, however, that there are always confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

§3. Confessions are not to be heard outside a confessional without a just cause.

I am sorry but this is exactly what I am a bit weary of. The priest surely knows that he isn’t going to do anything he shouldn’t. He should also be reasonably sure that the penitent won’t. I understand that he may expose himself to false allegations, that’s the sickness of our society, but I don’t think this should be an obstacte.

In the US, the Bishops have implemented a program called Protecting Gods Children. Priests, along with teachers volunteers and aides, have strict guidelines that include not being in situations that could be perceived as compromising. This is for the protection of the priest too. And why would you not want to protect your priest from false allegations?

I am sorry but in this you are mistaken. I am from Eastern Europe and as you can see on my profile, I live in England. Apart from emergencies I have never confessed any other way than face to face.

Sorry to tell you but the world is more than Europe. I have lived in two South American countries where there is no face-to-face Confession other than in a hospital.

Because he is not the one confessing (when he does, he can do it as he prefers

Well, he also gets to do what he prefers when he is the one hearing the confessions.

• oh, btw, have you ever met a priest who confesses in a confessional?).

Yes! I have seen this many times on retreats and pilgrimiges.

When he hears my confession, he acts as a servant of God’s people. And since I am not asking for anything illegal, illicit or unheard of, I think I should be able to confess face to face.

Well, yes you are. The Church has said that the choice is the priests and you are asking for that choice to be taken away. That’s illicit.

Well, we have quite a few and also many churches have maybe half an hour a week + “and by appointment” on the notice board and the newsletter.

That is a sad state of affairs. We have quite a few parishes with Confession scheduled multiple times a week. One near me has Confession times every day.

Corki, confession was widely practised in the Church before the first joiner put a saw to the plank of wood that was going to be the first ever confessional. The practice of individual confession precedes confessional boxes.

And I may be wrong but I am guessing that you weren’t around then. I was around when the current change happened. That’s all I said.

 

[mcw013]

I simply described how things are done in my current parish. That was all,

I would like to see a confessional in the parish, but it honestly seems that no one in the Archdiocese uses confessionals at all, (from my observations at least). A couple times I visited parishes here, and people looked at me strangely when I asked them “Where is the confessional?” Many times some said “Sorry? Confessional?”

Anyway, I’m not here for an extremely long period, so while I’m here I’ll just do what everyone else does, and that means confession in the church without a confessional.

 

[po18guy]

I’ve confessed many different places as well, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call it a non issue, and say whatever you feel most comfortable doing is best. Canon law tells us to use confessionals whenever possible for a reason…

Are you a canon lawyer? Just asking, because your argument sounds more legalistic and less pastoral (to me).

 

[po18guy]

Too true, about 70% of professed Catholics make Reconciliation one a year or less (i.e. never), according to the Fordham U. study.

We are blessed to have private confession. If we look to Nehemiah 9:1-3, we see that the Israelites stood up and publicly confessed their sins and those of their fathers. Who wants to do that?

 

[YoungTradCath]

Are you a canon lawyer? Just asking, because your argument sounds entirely legalistic and less pastoral (to me).

Canon Law and pastoral action are not contradictory.

 

[po18guy]

Canon Law and pastoral action are not contradictory.

Neither should they strangle one another. With the recent history of under-reacting to liberal abuses and excesses in the Church, I think that it is prudent to avoid the natural tendency to overreact and fall into Pharisaic rigidity. A damper needs to be placed upon the pendulum, and fortunately, we have the hierarchy to do that for us.

 

[superamazingman]

Are you a canon lawyer? Just asking, because your argument sounds more legalistic and less pastoral (to me).

Are you saying that the essence of being pastoral is breaking the rules? That is precisely the opposite of reality. We have been given the church (including canon law) by Christ. Following Christ does not mean going against the church, and anyone who holds that as wrong most certainly does not understand the true nature of Christianity.

 

[po18guy]

Are you saying that the essence of being pastoral is breaking the rules? That is precisely the opposite of reality. We have been given the church (including canon law) by Christ. Following Christ does not mean going against the church, and anyone who holds that as wrong most certainly does not understand the true nature of Christianity.

Does canon law forbid face-to-face confession?