Discuss: Married Sexuality

[Julianna]

It would be wise to keep ones noses and eyes out of everyone’s marital bedroom window…it is none of anyone’s business.

It is NOT a mortal sin to say “no dear…not tonight” by either party. Stop adding the desire of “bar the door katie” marital sex or the refusal thereof into the “scare tactic guilt trip” leading to the “hell in handbasket” mentality that doesn’t exist. It is very annoying and nosy. If the sex is pro-creative and unitive…that should settle it.

Why do these threads get so many pages…when common sense and a frank discussion between the “two people involved” will work just fine. Everyone else should MYOB.:

 

[violet81]

It would be wise to keep ones noses and eyes out of everyone’s marital bedroom window…it is none of anyone’s business.

It is not MY business, but it appears to be Gods business and by extention the Church’s business.

If I were right in front of you asking you for details about your sex life then I deserve to be punched in the face. The virtue of a message board is that people can post anonymously with questions and concerns.

I am glad that the topic is such a “no brainer” for you… I am glad you have never found a need to discuss it. But why pooh-pooh those of us who aren’t quite so lucky to be blessed with such an innate understanding of this very important topic?

 

[Julianna]

It is not MY business, but it appears to be Gods business and by extention the Church’s business.

If I were right in front of you asking you for details about your sex life then I deserve to be punched in the face. The virtue of a message board is that people can post anonymously with questions and concerns.

I am glad that the topic is such a “no brainer” for you… I am glad you have never found a need to discuss it. But why pooh-pooh those of us who aren’t quite so lucky to be blessed with such an innate understanding of this very important topic?

Honey…it’s “your” marriage…you and your husband. Your marriage is blessed by God and the Church. Go forth and dare to think for yourselves. You are going to get every answer from liberal to conservative. In the end…it’s YOU and your husband…no one else.

yes, you are right…it’s God’s business. The Church serves as a guidance, however, they are not welcome in my marital bed. Pro-creative and unitive…is all I need to know. The rest is someone’s opinion.

 

[violet81]

Some people have said this should not be discussed and others have said they like it being discussed.

Whose opinion is more valid?

I think that the choice to discuss it is a choice we should be able to have without condescension and belittling.

 

[C_S_P_B]

Some people have said this should not be discussed and others have said they like it being discussed.

Whose opinion is more valid?

I think that the choice to discuss it is a choice we should be able to have without condescension and belittling.

Are you saying it is inappropriate that some dismiss the opinions of others or resort to shaming language? (Incidentally men find the word “inappropriate” as confusing as “Fine!” but I will use it anyway.) Maybe this is different than condescension and belittling, but as a man, my emotional nuances are not all that refined.

Better the controversy occur here, rather than within a marriage, since people can think and consider the opinions of others, without all the emotional triggers and perceptions that often cause these discussions to be so contentious between a husband and a wife.

 

[violet81]

Are you saying it is inappropriate that some dismiss the opinions of others or resort to shaming language? (Incidentally men find the word “inappropriate” as confusing as “Fine!” but I will use it anyway.) Maybe this is different than condescension and belittling, but as a man, my emotional nuances are not all that refined.

Better the controversy occur here, rather than within a marriage, since people can think and consider the opinions of others, without all the emotional triggers and perceptions that often cause these discussions to be so contentious between a husband and a wife.

I am not sure if it is “inappropriate” since that is subjectively defined, but it is definitely unnecessary and unproductive.

 

[freerf]

I am not sure if it is “inappropriate” since that is subjectively defined, but it is definitely unnecessary and unproductive.

Violet, a bit of advice. Don’t resond unless it furthers the topic. The mods will come and shut the thread down for too much bickering. *I *happen to enjoy the discussion. Don’t bother defending your freedom to discuss.

 

[violet81]

Violet, a bit of advice. Don’t resond unless it furthers the topic. The mods will come and shut the thread down for too much bickering. I happen to enjoy the discussion. Don’t bother defending your freedom to discuss.

Point taken.

 

[freerf]

Violet wrote (snip)

It is my understanding that it is mortal sin to deny your spouse the marital debt.

OK, this is getting really uncomfortable now. I’m an adult convert, so maybe I’m missing something. Could we PLEASE have a someone with some real authority just answer the above? Is it a MORTAL SIN to deny your spouse the “Marital Debt”???

And Violet - FYI - you asked why I’m still reading… well, because this is because sometimes it is human nature to watch a train wreck in motion. What you are saying is so unloving and so against any Catholic teaching I received that I’m just really shocked.

Where on earth does it say that it is a mortal sin to deny sex to your spouse. Where on earth are you getting the idea that sex is the be all and end all of a relationship?

Sojo,
Don’t let this worry you. The OP has proposed *her opinion *of what is Catholic teaching. I’ve found or heard no official teachings supporting this opinion, nor has anyone quoted the CCC. All the “official” teachings so far seem to support moderation, charity, love, etc. rather than the “debt” or yoke you fear.

The OP chooses to express her love for her husband this way and more power to her imo. Going from “personal opinion” to “offical teaching” is light years away though.

Peace.

 

[violet81]

Let the husband render the debt to his wife: and the wife also in like manner to the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body: but the husband. And like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body: but the wife. Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer, and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency". (1Cor. 7:3-5)

 

[twoangels]

This is not actually true. I know many many men and women who can testify to that fact. I know men who accommodate their wife in every imaginable way and are still constantly rejected. I know women who are extremely accommodating wives but can’t get their spouse to budge even an inch in areas they want them to.

I agree that we should all try and do our best but if we are being severely taken advantage of after we have given it our all then one method of sending a strong statement is to withhold some of that selflessness, or possibly even separate for a time.

Oops issue with my pronouns. I meant that you as a spouse would be less likely to say no if you see your entire vocation in marriage as striving to give yourself in love 100%.

 

[freerf]

Let the husband render the debt to his wife: and the wife also in like manner to the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body: but the husband. And like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body: but the wife. Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer, and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency". (1Cor. 7:3-5)

So the husband shall make the wife wanton and the wife make the husband impotent. . .now where does that leave us? lol. Your interpretation of a single line of scripture should be supported by the whole of scripture, which (in my opinion) it is not. The idea of sex every night to a first-century Christian would probably be rather shocking. Even today, in a hyper-sexualized society, it is still shocking to some. Imagine back then, with the close quarters, unsanitary conditions, illness, etc. . . . sex every night?

 

[twoangels]

Let the husband render the debt to his wife: and the wife also in like manner to the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body: but the husband. And like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body: but the wife. Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer, and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency". (1Cor. 7:3-5)

Verses 1-2: “Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”

Verses 6-7 “But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandement. For I would have that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that.”

This passage in no way means that couples should go around having sex on a daily basis or that it is a mortal sin to say no. If anything, it is to recognize that abstaining from sex too long may lead your spouse into other sexual sins. But overall it is not a commandment. Overall I’d say this passage prefers NFP abstainence over abstaining for the total length of time you’re trying to avoid pregnancy. I also think NFP requires a greater act of submission to the will of God. Not having sex any time during a particular cycle makes it impossible to get pregnant. Having sex during your non-fertile time still leaves open a possibility. It may be a greatly reduced possibility, but it is still a possibility.

I don’t think anyone here is denying that spouses have conjugal rights. We’re just disagreeing with daily sex or as frequent as possible sex or being coerced with threats of Hell if you refuse your spouse ever.

 

[Julianna]

Verses 1-2: “Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.”

Verses 6-7 “But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandement. For I would have that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that.”

This passage in no way means that couples should go around having sex on a daily basis or that it is a mortal sin to say no. If anything, it is to recognize that abstaining from sex too long may lead your spouse into other sexual sins. But overall it is not a commandment. Overall I’d say this passage prefers NFP abstainence over abstaining for the total length of time you’re trying to avoid pregnancy. I also think NFP requires a greater act of submission to the will of God. Not having sex any time during a particular cycle makes it impossible to get pregnant. Having sex during your non-fertile time still leaves open a possibility. It may be a greatly reduced possibility, but it is still a possibility.

I don’t think anyone here is denying that spouses have conjugal rights. ** We’re just disagreeing with daily sex or as frequent as possible sex or being coerced **with threats of Hell if you refuse ****your spouse ever.

Thank you for making that clear. It is difficult to believe that there are women this day and age…especially in the US who do not have a clear understanding of this concept. The stockades and dunking ended centuries ago.

 

[violet81]

I read a statistic saying that the majority of men in this country have intercourse 3x a week and do the M word 2x a week.

That would lead me to believe that 5x a week is what the average man needs to avoid sin.

 

[monicatholic]

***The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.
A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.
Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
This I say by way of concession, however, not as a command. 1 corinthians 7: 3-6 ***

violet, it seems you skipped a seriously important portion of the scripture: i say this as a concession, not as a command.

again i assert: your interpretation is superCatholic and it should not be. adding to the understanding of the Church and then deeming all else mortally sinful is wrong. it’s scrupulosity; and that helps no one.

I don’t think anyone here is denying that spouses have conjugal rights. We’re just disagreeing with daily sex or as frequent as possible sex or being coerced with threats of Hell if you refuse your spouse ever.

right-O.

 

[monicatholic]

I read a statistic saying that the majority of men in this country have intercourse 3x a week and do the M word 2x a week.

That would lead me to believe that 5x a week is what the average man needs to avoid sin.

there is so much wrong with your conclusion.

 

[freerf]

I read a statistic saying that the majority of men in this country have intercourse 3x a week and do the M word 2x a week.

That would lead me to believe that 5x a week is what the average man needs to avoid sin.

This is probably an accurate statistic, but so what? This doesn’t imply a “need” so much as a want, one that is typically hyperactive.

What the average man in this country needs far more than sex is to learn restraint and self-control. That is the greater good.

(i’m sure your husband will hate me for saying this. . . I’m sure he’s quite happy with your position, accurate or not. it’s like that old joke about men voting to give women the vote. . .how’d we mess that one up?)

 

[freerf]

***The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband.
A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.
Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
This I say by way of concession, however, not as a command. 1 corinthians 7: 3-6 ***

violet, it seems you skipped a seriously important portion of the scripture: i say this as a concession, not as a command.

again i assert: your interpretation is superCatholic and it should not be. adding to the understanding of the Church and then deeming all else mortally sinful is wrong. it’s scrupulosity; and that helps no one.

right-O.

very good points.

 

[violet81]

This is probably an accurate statistic, but so what? This doesn’t imply a “need” so much as a want, one that is typically hyperactive.

I imagine it depends on a mans testosterone levels since that is also the sex hormone. A man with high levels of testosterone is going to have a harder time controlling his urge. As men age their testosterone levels decrease, and the aches and pains associated with intercourse increase…making the actual desire probably much less frequent.

If God gives a man (or woman) a high testosterone level then we assume it was for a reason. King David certainly seemed to one of those men, why else would he have so many concubines?

St Paul said that it is not preferable but it is acceptable to marry for concupiscence. I assume this is because self-control of this nature is virtually impossible for some people, therefore an accommodating wife is a huge blessing.