Discussing Radical Nazi Feminista/Feminism

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**Western women were deficient in social standing up til recently in historical terms.

For instance, in many American states married women had few legal rights and were essentially treated as minors (under the law). In fact, married working women in places like Texas didn’t even control their own wages (the money essentially belonged to their husbands, not them) (link to source: tshaonline.org/handbook/o…articles/jsw02).

Things were often even worse in offiicially Catholic countries.
For example, up til the 1970s in Spain (a country where Catholicism was the official state religion) women couldn’t become a judge or even serve as a witness in court, and married women’s property rights were severely restricted too (link to source: seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm…6_spain08.html). **

O.K. Now we know why you’re an angry atheist. 😃
 
We should take care in separating pagan morality from Christian morality- an enterprise the Church has been patiently and prudently undertaking for the last 2000 years. The current pagan mortality, under the auspices of modernism, argued that women were somehow deficient in social standing and they had “scientific” proofs to back this up- irrationality, short term thinking, and a whole other host of afflictions. This belief was nothing new, and the pernicious influence has been felt through history. But this has never been a part of the Christian ethic, and its reinforcement by the Enlightenment never made it more true. [As a quick aside, the very idea of rationality being an essence of being is an Enlightenment invention, as memory was driven out, and conscious became with synonymous with the Kantian ‘seat of critical judgment’…] It should be no surprise that what writers like Hume, Concordant, Schopanhauer and others wrote would not be conducive to dignity and equality that woman deserve.

We should not forget that it was men like Schopanhauer who wrote in “Of Women” (“Über die Weiber”,), that he was in opposition to what he called “Teutonico-Christian stupidity” on female affairs. He claimed that “woman is by nature are meant to obey” and he has wide ranging influence on 19th century thinking from Nietzsche to the feminists to the emerging science of the sexes.

This all flew right in the face of the equality the Church has long sought and equality between men and women written about by Saint Bonaventure. The Church worked long and hard to eliminate fornication (inequal and unjust sexual relations); concubinage, polygamy, bride-purchase and other violations of the justice of God.

As Miss Ansecombe wrote in her essay on contraceptives (an essay all Catholics should read,) "There always used to be a colossal strain in ancient times; between heathen morality and Christian morality, and one of the things pagan converts had to be told about the way they were entering on was that they must abstain from fornication. This peculiarity of the Christian life was taught in a precept issued by the Council of Jerusalem, the very first council of the Christian Church. The prohibition was issued in the same breath as the merely temporary retention of Judaic laws prohibiting the eating of blood - no black pudding! - and the prohibition on eating the flesh of animals that had been sacrificed to idols. And in one way these may have been psychologically the same sort of prohibition to a pagan convert… All the same the prohibition on fornication must have stood out; it must have meant a very serious change of life to many, as it would today. Christian life meant a separation from the standards of that world: you couldn’t be a Baal-worshipper, you couldn’t sacrifice to idols, be a sodomite, practice infanticide, compatibly with the Christian allegiance. That is not to say that Christians were good; we humans are a bad lot and our lives as Christians even if not blackly and grossly wicked are usually very mediocre. But the Catholic Christian badge now again means separation, even for such poor mediocrities, from what the unchristian world in the West approves and professes.

Christianity was at odds with the heathen world, not only about fornication, infanticide and idolatry; but also about marriage. Christians were taught that husband and wife had equal rights in one another’s bodies; a wife is wronged by her husband’s adultery as well as a husband by his wife’s. And Christianity involved non-acceptance of the contemptible role of the female partner in fornication, calling the prostitute to repentance and repudiating respectable concubinage. And finally for Christians divorce was excluded. These differences were the measure, great enough, of the separation between Christianity and the pagan world in these matters. By now, Christian teaching is, of course, known all over the world; and it goes without saying for those in the West that what they call “accepting traditional morals” means counting fornication as wrong - it’s just not a respectable thing. But we ought to be conscious that, like the objection to infanticide, this is a Jewish Christian inheritance. And we should realize that heathen humanity tends to have a different attitude towards both. In Christian teaching a value is set on every human life and on men’s chastity as well as on women’s and this as part of the ordinary calling of a Christian, not just in connexion with the austerity of monks. Faithfulness, by which a man turned only to his spouse, forswearing all other women, was counted as one of the great goods of marriage.

But the quarrel is far greater between Christianity and the present-day heathen, post Christian, morality that has sprung up as a result of contraception. In one word: Christianity taught that men ought to be as chaste as pagans thought honest women ought to be; the contraceptive morality teaches that women need to be as little chaste as pagans thought men need be. "

Further complicating matters is the transformation of traditionally recognized fatherhood roles from the man to the state. This has been an ongoing process for the last 200 years, and the 20 and 21st century feminists have been informed by these changes that came before and are reactionary to the facts on the ground.

So I wouldn’t go so far as to call them nazis but they are beknighted in the same ways that people living under ancient German law allowed for murder in family feuds. Feminists are supporting as much injustice as the old regime, and it is the mission of Christians to combat this with the same prudence and patience by words and deeds that the only true just relation are found in those abiding in Christ.
👍 The only improvement I can suggest to your post is the omission of a “k” - which otherwise implies recognition of noble services to the realm! 😉
 
Western women were deficient in social standing up til recently in historical terms.

For instance, in many American states married women had few legal rights and were essentially treated as minors (under the law). In fact, married working women in places like Texas didn’t even control their own wages (the money essentially belonged to their husbands, not them) (link to source: tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/jsw02).

Things were often even worse in offiicially Catholic countries.
For example, up til the 1970s in Spain (a country where Catholicism was the official state religion) women couldn’t become a judge or even serve as a witness in court, and married women’s property rights were severely restricted too (link to source: seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003294566_spain08.html).
The idea of a “Catholic” country, “Protestant” country, confessional state only goes as far back as the 16th century, or early Modernism, a period we don’t usually point to as the Church having a whole lot of power over temporal states.* I don’t think you appreciate how little the Church has ever had on changing a whole societies behavior. Again, I refer you to the long long struggle just to eliminate concubinage. Or, frankly, take a look around you in today’s world. The Church has always worked with the sexual mores of the times, and tried to steer it to truth, and have largely been ignored- much to the chagrin of a lot of Catholics, you can read all about it on a forum like this.

The biggest mistake Christians have made is wedding itself too closely to some concepts and language of the Enlightenment, but this is to be expected, it seems our cultural remembrance (outside of actual historians) runs in about a 300 year cycle. Anything before that becomes mythologized. But there is a noticeable progress from Roman times where women were possessions to the medieval manorial system were a womanhood was a status to modern times where women became contractors themselves. And underlying this is 2000 years of Church history which argued for consent allowed to and respect for women. It’s a slow march.
 
👍 The only improvement I can suggest to your post is the omission of a “k” - which otherwise implies recognition of noble services to the realm! 😉
haha, :D, that ‘K’ really sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
🤷 I don’t think you understood what I am saying. The idea of a “Catholic” country, “Protestant” country, confessional state only goes as far back as the 16th century, or early Modernism; and though the 16th and 17th centuries were probably the most religious in western history; I don’t think anyone would claim that the Church was extremely powerful in temporal matters at this time.* And I don’t think you appreciate how little the Church has ever had on changing a whole societies behavior. Again, I refer you to the long long struggle just to eliminate concubinage.

You cannot discount the influence of Roman law, starting with its reintroduction into German and Italian courts starting in the 13th century. As Henry Sumner Maine states in ‘On Ancient Law’, the modern progressive ideas of law is the move from status to contract- the same movements Roman Law was making until the collapse (but not elimination) of the Empire herself.

The biggest mistake Christians have made is wedding itself too closely to some concepts and language of the Enlightenment, but this is to be expected, it seems our cultural remembrance (outside of actual historians) runs in about a 300 year cycle. Anything before that becomes mythologized. But there is a noticeable progress from Roman times where women were possessions to the medieval manorial system were a woman was a status to modern times where women became contractors themselves. And underlying this is 2000 years of Church history which argued for consent allowed to and respect for women. It’s a slow march.

(*And no, I wouldn’t say the Roman world, or the Dark Ages, or the Medieval World reflected the Christian ethic either- but you seem to be assuming that the presence of Christians meant that they didn’t [or shouldn’t have] practice their traditional cultures. This is a bit loopy and a confusion between ideals and reality, and the Church and Caesar…as I said previously, with patience and prudence the Church has been working towards an equality not found in the nations.)
Precisely! The deeply embedded patriarchal mentality condemned by Jesus has always been an serious impediment to his command that we should love one another as God loves us without prejudice or discrimination.
 
👍 I thought it was rather cute - but your latest crack is even more amusing: 👍

I hope your username is only metaphorical!
I lost that thumb in the United Kingdom; for it was there where I stopped hitchhiking through life and decided to try, with the grace of God, to be a better Catholic. 😃
 
I lost that thumb in the United Kingdom; for it was there where I stopped hitchhiking through life and decided to try, with the grace of God, to be a better Catholic. 😃
Magnificent! Now I understand why you live in **New **England. :clapping:

I’m tempted to suppose that this spiritual desert made you thirst for living water…
 
LessThumb
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It’s a slow march.**

Yes, it is. As opposed to our modern perspective and our modern impatience, if you look at where women were in the cultures that Christianity first entered, you see that they are a lot better off than they were then. Think about the end of gladiatorial combat at the time of the first Christian emperor, Constantine. Think of human sacrifice to the gods in Central America when Columbus arrived. Think cannibalism in Africa and head-hunting in the Phillippines.

It’s a slow march toward civilization. Catholicism has been very much a part of that march, discouraging women today from butchering their own children in the womb, many of them female babies that are aborted in China because they are female.

How good is that for the liberation of women? Sounds more like barbarism unleashed.
 
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