Discussion on the Koran or Quran

[jakasaki]

For our muslim members, can you please provide the **internet **koran link you use.

For non-muslim members, can you also please provide the internet koran link you use.

I’ve noticed in quite a few chapters, verses repeat. Why is that? I noticed a while back planten has quoted something from the koran with different verse numbers but the “statement/scripture” was the same.

I asked him about it, but he did not respond to the post.

Here is one for example:

Chapter 2:
#134 That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!

#141 That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:

searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=2&translator=2

Chapter 2:
Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which ye earn. And ye will not be asked of what they used to do. (#134)

Those are a people who have passed away; theirs is that which they earned and yours that which ye earn. And ye will not be asked of what they used to do. (#141)

quranexplorer.com/quran/

Both of these are authentic koran islamic sites and their “wording” is **not **the same.

So besides the wording not being the same the real question is why is there a repeat on verses. I’ve seen duplicates before. Has anyone else seen them.

Do you have any to share and again, why the duplication?

 

[jakasaki]

I found 2 more I’d like to post…

And they will turn to one another, and question one another.
( سورة الصافات , As-Saaffat, Chapter #37, Verse #27)

Then they will turn to one another and question one another.
( سورة الصافات , As-Saaffat, Chapter #37, Verse #50)

searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=question&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&search_word=all&start=20&records_display=10&phonetic=

Chapter 37:

And some of them draw near unto others, mutually questioning. (27)

And some of them draw near unto others, mutually questioning. (50)

quranexplorer.com/quran/

 

[AJTheMan]

I use the Quran search at islamicity.

islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

Why does the Quran repeat it’s self? I’m not a Muslim, so I don’t know. I find that the bible repeats as well, so it doesn’t really bother me. A Muslim may have a better response.

 

[SalomeBintullah]

I like to use this one because it has a Qur’an search as well as a hadith search elsewhere on the website. The two Qur’an translations provided are Yusuf Ali and Pickthal, neither of which I’m particularly fond of, but they seem to be the most widely used among English-speaking Muslims, so it seems best to use them. On the other hand, this Qur’an search is really great, because it searches the original Arabic script, a transliteration of the original, and English translations (Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Muhsin Khan, and Shakir).

 

[qui_est_ce]

So besides the wording not being the same the real question is why is there a repeat on verses.

Is it possible there are different translations, as the Bible has different translations? Is this why the Koran has to be read in Arabic, because it “loses the meaning in translation?”

I guess this would be a problem because Islam has no equivalent to Catholic Magesterium. Perhaps this is why Isamists disagree among themselves over what Islam is.

 

[jakasaki]

Is it possible there are different translations, as the Bible has different translations? Is this why the Koran has to be read in Arabic, because it “loses the meaning in translation?”

I guess this would be a problem because Islam has no equivalent to Catholic Magesterium. Perhaps this is why Isamists disagree among themselves over what Islam is.

Thanks Christine, perhaps our Arabic speaking/reading members can confirm the passages are written the in the same Arabic letters for those mentioned above.

 

[famdigy]

So besides the wording not being the same the real question is why is there a repeat on verses. I’ve seen duplicates before. Has anyone else seen them.

Do you have any to share and again, why the duplication?

The wording is not the same because you are reading translations, the translator used his discretion in translating each one differently, However the arabic script its written in is exactly the same, there are no differences between the duplicate verses.

The Quran is written in a poetic form, repetitions are linguistically and grammatically is correct, and a common occurrence. As far as I am aware, they exist to emphasize a particular point and to focus the reader’s attention to it.

For example, almost every Surah begins with a declaration of God’s Mercy and compassion. “In the name of Allah the compassionate, the merciful”, this serves to emphasize to the reader that he is beginning in His name, to be mindful and conscious of Him in his actions, to remember God’s compassion to all His creation, even those who refuse to believe in Him who are not deprived by God of daily sustenance and favour, and to be hopeful of God’s special mercy when standing before Him on the Judgment day.

This is repeated in every surah so that we don’t become neglectful or forget. The same goes for the two verses you quoted.

 

[jakasaki]

I like to use this one because it has a Qur’an search as well as a hadith search elsewhere on the website. The two Qur’an translations provided are Yusuf Ali and Pickthal, neither of which I’m particularly fond of, but they seem to be the most widely used among English-speaking Muslims, so it seems best to use them. On the other hand, this Qur’an search is really great, because it searches the original Arabic script, a transliteration of the original, and English translations (Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Muhsin Khan, and Shakir).

Thanks Salome - I know about sites you provided and I do use it quite often for comparison.

Be well…

 

[jakasaki]

The wording is not the same because you are reading translations, the translator used his discretion in translating each one differently, However the arabic script its written in is exactly the same, there are no differences between the duplicate verses.

The Quran is written in a poetic form, repetitions are linguistically and grammatically is correct, and a common occurrence. As far as I am aware, they exist to emphasize a particular point and to focus the reader’s attention to it.

For example, almost every Surah begins with a declaration of God’s Mercy and compassion. “In the name of Allah the compassionate, the merciful”, this serves to emphasize to the reader that he is beginning in His name, to be mindful and conscious of Him in his actions, to remember God’s compassion to all His creation, even those who refuse to believe in Him who are not deprived by God of daily sustenance and favour, and to be hopeful of God’s special mercy when standing before Him on the Judgment day.

This is repeated in every surah so that we don’t become neglectful or forget. The same goes for the two verses you quoted.

Hi Famidgy and thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I need to think about what you wrote…

Best regards…

 

[famdigy]

Hi Famidgy and thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

I need to think about what you wrote…

Best regards…

No problem,

here’s another example showing that repetition is part of the literary style of the Quran.

Surah 55, 13-23

So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
He created man from clay like [that of] pottery.
And He created the jinn from a smokeless flame of fire.
So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
[He is] Lord of the two sunrises and Lord of the two sunsets.
So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
He released the two seas, meeting [side by side];
Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses.
So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
From both of them emerge pearl and coral.
So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?

 

[SalomeBintullah]

Here’s one I’ve found that some of you might like. You can pick from three different English translations, and you can also hear it recited in Arabic and read aloud in English while looking at the text. Both the English and the Arabic texts are provided.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… why the duplication?

It’s probably to divert our attention from the fact that the Qur’an specifically denies Christ died on the Cross (see Qur’an 4:157).

 

[Hadi]

It’s probably to divert our attention from the fact that the Qur’an specifically denies Christ died on the Cross (see Qur’an 4:157).

What is the significant of him dying on a cross as opposed to dying somewhere else

 

[Eucharisted]

I use whatever Internet Qu’ran I can. It’s all the same to me.

Verses are repeated for various reasons: the Qu’ran is poetic, the Qu’ran is a compilation of different translations (the other translations were destroyed, along with the original Qu’ran), and the Qu’ran is the product of man, who likes to repeat himself when speaking and writing.

 

[bpbasilphx]

I’ve noticed in quite a few chapters, verses repeat. Why is that? I noticed a while back planten has quoted something from the koran with different verse numbers but the “statement/scripture” was the same.

---

**Keep in mind that Mohammed the Pedophile was illiterate, and other people wrote down his supposed revelations. Doublets and repetition are to be expected in what is essentially an oral tradition.

And there are doublets and reptition in the Bible itself.**

 

[Eucharisted]

What is the significant of him dying on a cross as opposed to dying somewhere else

Open a new thread, Hadi.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

What is the significant of him dying on a cross as opposed to dying somewhere else

Open a new thread, Hadi.

Hadi,

I have to agree with Eucharisted, because knowing significance of Him dying on The Cross as opposed to dying somewhere else will change your life.

 

[hamba2han]

Arabic is incredibly accurate and there is no such thing as synonyms in the language and this is especially so in the Qur’an where each word used has a distinct meaning.

Here is a short illustration of the inimitable eloquence of the Qur’an which makes it really quite impossible to accurately translate into another language:

An Example of Eloquence in the Qur’an: The Preposition ‘of’ in Verse 42:43

Source: “The Miracles of the Qur’an” Shaykh M Mitwalli Al-Sharawi.

The language of the Qur’an is unsurpassed in its accuracy of meaning and expression. Each letter and word has its place while the language is free from fault. These unique features are found manifested in the use of one single letter or a preposition, as is demonstrated in the following verses:

**Ya bunayya aqimi alssalata wa/mur bialmaAAroofi wainha AAani almunkari waisbir AAala ma asabaka inna thalika min AAazmi al-omoori

“…and bear patiently that which befalls you; surely these acts require courage; ”… (Al-Qur’an 31:17)**

Walaman sabara waghafara inna thalika lamin AAazmi al-omoori

“And verily whoso is patient and forgiveth - lo! that, verily is (of) the steadfast heart of things.”… (Al-Qur’an 42:43)

In the second verse the preposition “of” (LAMIN) may pass unnoticed or be taken as an emphatic synonym. But this is not so, because every letter or word in the language of the Qur’an is selected with the utmost care to convey one intrinsic meaning and definite purpose.

There is no such thing as synonymity in the Qur’an. Each letter and word has its own fixed meaning which no other word can express as accurately, irrespective of their seeming similarity. If we consider thoughtfully the meticulous selectivity of the words in the above verses and their underlying meaning, we soon come to realize that there are two kinds of patience.

In the first kind there is no direct adversary or person responsible for hardship or misfortune; for example a brick falling from a building under construction onto the head of an unsuspecting pedestrian, or the collapse of a newly-built house over peacefully sleeping tenants. In all incidents and mishaps of this nature no individual bears the responsibility for the victim’s misfortune. It is therefore easy for the unfortunate man to restrain his anger and accept his misfortune as an act of Allah. This kind of patience does not require a great deal of energy and can be easily achieved.

But patience which is “verily of the steadfast heart of things“ is that which involves an antagonist against whom a victim has the freedom to retaliate and avenge himself, but prefers to suppress his anger and vengeful tendencies and forgive him. This kind of patience is deemed by Allah to be worthier than the first, because in this kind the aggrieved is dominated by his instinctive anger and feelings of injustice, and has to exercise a great deal of self-restraint. He is restrained by his fear of Allah, and refrains from responding to evil with evil. In the above verses, Allah defines the merits of the two types of patience and their corresponding heavenly rewards. He also describes the human responses of retaliation that ought to be observed in each case by the faithful.

Thus, in the first case they are commanded to accept what befalls them with humility and resignation to His will. In the second they are commanded to be forgiving and to maintain their faith in Allah’s justice.

The preposition ‘of’ has obviously been used to accentuate the distinction between the kind of patience in which forgiveness is not a necessity, and that in which forgiveness represents a test of endurance of injustice and of the believer’s trust in Allah’s providence and will. This shows how a single letter or preposition can bear such depth of meaning and discriminating power in the language of the Qur’an.

The above example clearly demonstrates just how very difficult it is to accurately translate even one short verse of the Qur’an involving the use of just a single preposition ’of’ within it, such is the supreme eloquence of the language used in the Qur’an.

Therefore, as we can all imagine, it is simply not possible to translate the over 6,000 verses of the entire Qur’an into another language without losing much of the accuracy of their true meaning.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Arabic is incredibly accurate and there is no such thing as synonyms in the language and this is especially so in the Qur’an where each word used has a distinct meaning.
{snip}
The above example clearly demonstrates just how very difficult it is to accurately translate even one short verse of the Qur’an involving the use of just a single preposition ’of’ within it, such is the supreme eloquence of the language used in the Qur’an.

Therefore, as we can all imagine, it is simply not possible to translate the over 6,000 verses of the entire Qur’an into another language without losing much of the accuracy of their true meaning.

Does this mean we can’t know God unless we speak Arabic?

 

[jakasaki]

Having read and compared different online koran’s, their interpretation/translations are also different.

That’s OK with me - no problem. But, since this is the case, why are muslims complaining about the different interpretation/translations of the Bible when it exists within the koran?

Also, one of the posters claimed the Bible repeats verses. Maybe I’ve missed them, but I haven’t seen any like the ones in the koran.

And since the koran can only be understood in Arabic, well then it isn’t a book for all man kind since not everyone speaks and understands Arabic.

Since their was no original koran at mohamads time and there were many different koran books written, how can muslims claim that it is identical to this day as it was from the beginning…?? Which koran tablet is in heaven with allah?