R
ralphinal
Guest
Ask a Muslim if Muhammed ever sinned. Just ask and they will tell you no.
I should have said most Muslims. You are correct. However, I stand by what I say from experiance on this site and others.
- Status
L
Lujack
Guest
“‘And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he dies or is slain, will you turn back on your heels?”
That is directly from the Qu’Ran. While he is venerated as being a great man, I’m not so sure about his sinlessness.
He clearly did not consider himself to be sinless. Part of the reason why hadiths are such an oral tradition is that Muhammad did not allow his followers to write down anything he said that was not a Qu’Ranic recitation.
R
ralphinal
Guest
According to Muslim posters on this and other forum, no prophet is capable of sin. This would mean that Adam did not sin when he ate the apple, David did not sin when he stole Bathsheba, and nothing that Muhammed did was a sin.
Do some research into this. I am not sure that I disagree that he would have called himself sinless, but I do not blame him for making sure he was considered sinless according to the faith he created.
E
Eucharisted
Guest
Here is something of interest if anyone wants to take a shot at it: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=288243
I’m not bringing it up because I want to bash Muslims or make mself look good, but because I think it’s interesting that few people realize the similarities between offshoots of Christianity, as well as the “common interests” on Christiantiy and Islam.
For example, Muslims believe the Koran is incorrupt, Christians believe the Bible is incorrupt; Muslims believe Mohammed was prophecized in the NT, Christians believe Jesus was prophecized in the OT (and some Christians believe He was prophecized in pagan texts too); Muslims pray and fast, Christians pray and fast. It’s stuff like that that helps you come to a better understanding of Islam and Muslims. Nonetheless, it dose not take away from the fact that there are silly beliefs in Islam, like saying Jesus is the Word - a belief lifted from Christianity - yet redefining what “Word” means so as to be compatable to Islam.
There are a number of similiarites between offshoot churches and religons from Christianity, like I said, with Islam being one of them. A tail-tale sign that a religon, church, sect, or cult did not come from God is that it goes backword spiritually. By this I mean, it turns back toward Judaism and/or pagan religions, instead of going forward to Christ. For example: diety laws, animal sacrifice, Saturday as Sabbarth, worshipping icons or statues, etc.
As Padre Pio once said, “He who dose not go forward in the spiritual life goes backwards. It is as with a boat: If you do not row forward, the wind will push you back”. This is true of every religon, I’ve found, since they are all spiritual, caught up with God, Who is Spirit. The Catholic Church, the Bark of Peter, is the boat that goes forward. Many other religons, though, go backwards.
Anyhow, just thought I’d share that information. Sorry for going ofttopic again.
I’m not bringing it up because I want to bash Muslims or make mself look good, but because I think it’s interesting that few people realize the similarities between offshoots of Christianity, as well as the “common interests” on Christiantiy and Islam.
For example, Muslims believe the Koran is incorrupt, Christians believe the Bible is incorrupt; Muslims believe Mohammed was prophecized in the NT, Christians believe Jesus was prophecized in the OT (and some Christians believe He was prophecized in pagan texts too); Muslims pray and fast, Christians pray and fast. It’s stuff like that that helps you come to a better understanding of Islam and Muslims. Nonetheless, it dose not take away from the fact that there are silly beliefs in Islam, like saying Jesus is the Word - a belief lifted from Christianity - yet redefining what “Word” means so as to be compatable to Islam.
There are a number of similiarites between offshoot churches and religons from Christianity, like I said, with Islam being one of them. A tail-tale sign that a religon, church, sect, or cult did not come from God is that it goes backword spiritually. By this I mean, it turns back toward Judaism and/or pagan religions, instead of going forward to Christ. For example: diety laws, animal sacrifice, Saturday as Sabbarth, worshipping icons or statues, etc.
As Padre Pio once said, “He who dose not go forward in the spiritual life goes backwards. It is as with a boat: If you do not row forward, the wind will push you back”. This is true of every religon, I’ve found, since they are all spiritual, caught up with God, Who is Spirit. The Catholic Church, the Bark of Peter, is the boat that goes forward. Many other religons, though, go backwards.
Anyhow, just thought I’d share that information. Sorry for going ofttopic again.
R
R_not
Guest
islam isn’t even close to Christianity in its beliefs - or its pagan moon god, allah, that is more of mohammed’s alter ego than anything else. mohammed changed what allah was depending on his mood and as mohammed aged, his mood grew darker, more like a lecher and a very, greedy guy. There could be similarities with any religion and its offshoots, or terms.Here is something of interest if anyone wants to take a shot at it: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=288243
I’m not bringing it up because I want to bash Muslims or make mself look good, but because I think it’s interesting that few people realize the similarities between offshoots of Christianity, as well as the “common interests” on Christiantiy and Islam.
For example, Muslims believe the Koran is incorrupt, Christians believe the Bible is incorrupt; Muslims believe Mohammed was prophecized in the NT, Christians believe Jesus was prophecized in the OT (and some Christians believe He was prophecized in pagan texts too); Muslims pray and fast, Christians pray and fast. It’s stuff like that that helps you come to a better understanding of Islam and Muslims. Nonetheless, it dose not take away from the fact that there are silly beliefs in Islam, like saying Jesus is the Word - a belief lifted from Christianity - yet redefining what “Word” means so as to be compatable to Islam.
There are a number of similiarites between offshoot churches and religons from Christianity, like I said, with Islam being one of them. A tail-tale sign that a religon, church, sect, or cult did not come from God is that it goes backword spiritually. By this I mean, it turns back toward Judaism and/or pagan religions, instead of going forward to Christ. For example: diety laws, animal sacrifice, Saturday as Sabbarth, worshipping icons or statues, etc.
As Padre Pio once said, “He who dose not go forward in the spiritual life goes backwards. It is as with a boat: If you do not row forward, the wind will push you back”. This is true of every religon, I’ve found, since they are all spiritual, caught up with God, Who is Spirit. The Catholic Church, the Bark of Peter, is the boat that goes forward. Many other religons, though, go backwards.
Anyhow, just thought I’d share that information. Sorry for going ofttopic again.
I don’t see how anyone could see islam as ‘moving forward’! It was so bad that mohammed had to redefine sin to be whatever he said it was, or was not! That is why muslims think he is perfect - in the redefinition of sin it seems mohammed made himself come out smelling like roses! Gee - go figure:shrug:
J
JLSamuel818
Guest
Very good point. I’m getting tired of reading these arguments going in circles.
Someone seriously needs to research their facts, and compare there beliefs to the Gospels and New Testament because, we all have been going in circles in the same area of arguments.
-.-;
With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
R
Reuben_J
Guest
"requiemaeturnum:
This does not need proving actually, it is all in the Bible. The Bible, unlike the Quran, is arranged more in chronological order. You can read from the John Gospel and then Acts chapter 1.
In short summary, they tell us that Jesus told his disciple that the Paraclete would come after he went away (died; to the Father) and would tell them everything they need to know. You understand that the disciples were puzzled why Jesus needed to go away or why he needed to die. But Jesus said, you may not understand now but wait, a helper, an advocate, a comforter will help you. Remember he was talking to his disciples. So that promise was for his immediate listeners.
Jesus died but rose again and appeared to his disciples. He asked them to wait, again, for the power that come from on high.
The disciples waited and there it came - the power that came from on high. And at that very moment they knew everything. In fact they were transformed beyond imagination and full of knowledge and power because the Paraclete, the Advocate, the Helper and the Comforter had came like it been promised.
Thus the promise of the Paraclete in John Gospel had come to pass in the Book of Acts within the time frame of the lives of the disciples.
This makes it impossible that the Paraclete could be Mohammad who lived about 600 years later.
Allow me to interject here.
This does not need proving actually, it is all in the Bible. The Bible, unlike the Quran, is arranged more in chronological order. You can read from the John Gospel and then Acts chapter 1.
In short summary, they tell us that Jesus told his disciple that the Paraclete would come after he went away (died; to the Father) and would tell them everything they need to know. You understand that the disciples were puzzled why Jesus needed to go away or why he needed to die. But Jesus said, you may not understand now but wait, a helper, an advocate, a comforter will help you. Remember he was talking to his disciples. So that promise was for his immediate listeners.
Jesus died but rose again and appeared to his disciples. He asked them to wait, again, for the power that come from on high.
The disciples waited and there it came - the power that came from on high. And at that very moment they knew everything. In fact they were transformed beyond imagination and full of knowledge and power because the Paraclete, the Advocate, the Helper and the Comforter had came like it been promised.
Thus the promise of the Paraclete in John Gospel had come to pass in the Book of Acts within the time frame of the lives of the disciples.
This makes it impossible that the Paraclete could be Mohammad who lived about 600 years later.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
BTW, What probably could Mohammad tell about Jesus that the disciples (of Jesus) did not already known? Nothing. They knew for a fact that he was human and a teacher. At the most a prophet, for he had performed miracles. Their anxiety was that they would be leaderless if he went away. Certainly at that point in time, they did not know the theological mission of Jesus. Their understanding of a Messiah is one of a human savior, a leader or a King in the mould of the ancient Hebrew dynasty, someone like King David who would bring the glory of Jewish empire and rule. Jewish ancient Kings were anointed, meaning they were put there by God himself. Thus the term Messiah – the anointed one. The coronation of a King would involve the anointing by the High Priest of the temple. Traditional anointing process was usually by the pouring of expansive fragranced oil. Samuel anointed King Saul was one example.
But what the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit told them was knowledge; very much as if the physical Jesus was still with them, looking and caring for their daily affair. But it came with power too as Jesus was power – the miracles and the healings. These the disciples got during the coming of the Paraclete during that prophetic Pentecost day.
But can we go back to the ‘Nonsense of Islam’ as in the OP if there is any defence or interest?
But what the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit told them was knowledge; very much as if the physical Jesus was still with them, looking and caring for their daily affair. But it came with power too as Jesus was power – the miracles and the healings. These the disciples got during the coming of the Paraclete during that prophetic Pentecost day.
But can we go back to the ‘Nonsense of Islam’ as in the OP if there is any defence or interest?
L
Lujack
Guest
I’ll bite on the OP.
Regardless, I don’t see how this is any different than certain Jewish rules on purity.
This is a slight distortion of the case. One who farts during prayer would have to repeat their ablutions because it makes them unclean. It isn’t a sin or anything like that.
Regardless, I don’t see how this is any different than certain Jewish rules on purity.
I haven’t heard anything like this.
Yes and no. Muslims don’t believe in the Trinity, as far as I know, and in Islam, the spiritual guide who takes the place of the Holy Spirit is the Archangel Gabriel.
This is tricky ground that I don’t know well enough, so I’ll stay out of it.
I don’t know where this came from. I don’t think it is even remotely true.
I don’t know this well enough to argue it.
? What is this about?
I don’t know anything about this.
Technically correct, but not really accurate. Muslims believe that God would not have allowed a prophet to be crucified, and so believe that he was miraculously taken off the cross and replaced with a duplicate.
That is accurate; the direction of prayer did change. After the hijra, the direction of prayer was initially towards Jerusalem. When the Muslims decide to reclaim Mecca from the pagan Quraysh, however, the direction of prayer was reoriented towards Mecca.
This isn’t the Christian belief, but what makes it so nonsensical.
As far as I know, this is vaguely similar to the idea of the Rapture, that Muslims won’t have to face the end times. I’m not sure all Muslims even believe this, though.
Correct. In Islam, angels are extensions of God’s will. What makes this so nonsensical?
These are the beliefs of some Muslims, but it is far from being standard to the faith. I don’t know Muslim eschatology all that well, but these are also dumbed-down and distorted versions of the beliefs.
Again, this is a distortion. Muslims are supposed to remain in contact with other Muslims, and falling out of contact for more than three days is strongly discouraged. What is so nonsensical about this?
Yes. To some extent, we have this in Catholicism, such as when someone dies on their way to Confession. The ones who wouldn’t believe such a thing are the Evangelicals who think that the only way to Heaven is to accept Jesus as your personal savior, through faith alone.
Yes, considering they don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Holy Trinity. Unless you think everything a non-Christian does is nonsense, though, this isn’t nonsense.
A
avenger
Guest
R
ralphinal
Guest
One of the more interesting ones to me is the issue of who is in the Trinity. Islam, per the Qur’an, claims that Christians made Jesus and Mary to be gods along with Allah. Now, by the time the Qur’an was written (Recited, whatever), the Church had long since defined the Trinity clearly as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Now, if Allah knows everything, how was he wrong about this?
Now, if Allah knows everything, how was he wrong about this?
R
Reuben_J
Guest
This has caught my attention. When Muslims believe that God would not allowed a prophet to be crucified, does it mean that God will protect a prophet from harm or danger?
Is there a referrence in the Quran for this belief?
J
JLSamuel818
Guest
I don’t know what to say.
I fart when I pray a lot of the times. I am in the privacy of my own home, I am allowed to ‘toot’ if my body feels like don’t I?
I mean seriously. I can not fart when I pray? I never read this in the bible. I mean seriously. SERIOUSLY.
With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
I fart when I pray a lot of the times. I am in the privacy of my own home, I am allowed to ‘toot’ if my body feels like don’t I?
I mean seriously. I can not fart when I pray? I never read this in the bible. I mean seriously. SERIOUSLY.
With love and grace,
_[Samuel]
L
Lujack
Guest
I don’t know the exact belief. I don’t think it necessarily implies rescuing the prophet from harm or danger, but rather that God would not allow one of His prophets to die by crucifixion, due to both the pain and humiliation involved.
I don’t have a Qu’Ranic reference, though. Maybe one of the Muslims on here can flesh this out a bit further.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Thanks for the attempt. You’re one of the better informed Catholics about Islam here. Let’s wait then.
God bless.
P
planten
Guest
It is high level sense of Islam that it rescued (saved) the prophet Jesus a.s. from the adverse, ignoble (cursed) death on the cross. It is according to the teaching of the bible OT that any one who dies on the cross is cursed. That is not a teaching of the Quran. But it is the teaching of bible.
That is why the Jews (enemies of Jesus, teh Pharisees etc) were bent upon killing Jesus on the cross. The mission was to prove that he was not a man of God. That he was a cursed person.
The Quran clearly states that Jesus did not die on the cross. WE feel that is correct. Jesus sincerely prayed (to his God) in the garden before his arrest. That was to avoid the cup that was planned for him by his enemies. We believe that his prayer was accepted by his God. That is reported in the Quran and God (Allah) assured Jesus that he will not die on the cross.
The same is reported in the bible. It is said that an angel came to Jesus during his prayers and was strenghthening him, meaning that angel was helping Jesus and assuring him that his prayer was accepted.
S
swariffin
Guest
Off course, anything you disagree is called bashing.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Never mind about the Bible, planten.
Do you have any Quranic reference to say that God did not want Jesus to die on the cross or that God protected / rescued him from dying on the cross?
P
planten
Guest
Yes swariffin, there are clear verses about that. There is a clear statement “They could not kill him and they could not kill him on the cross. But it was made to appear to them like that… And they surely could not kill him” Al-Quran 4:157.
There are a few more on the same subject…
S
swariffin
Guest
That is why in Quran, there is no such thing of development of faith, or worse, no development at all. The high level sense of Islam is humanly sense, not Godly sense. The high level sense of Islam is with respect to human only, not with respect of God. So, the high level of Islam is reducing God into human way of thinking.
You are correct for this sense.
According to the Gospel of Barnabas, which is proven that the writer has no knowledge of the geography of the land of Judea (as has meny errors describing that). But, taken as the word of God by Muhammad.
Yes, Jesus said “Not mine, but thine will be done”. God accepted Jesus’ prayer. It is the will of God (not the will of Jesus) which prevails.
- Status