Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

[Lapell]

**
There is much double standard in christianity.

Easy to say from the outside!!

Everything good for Jesus.

Only God is only good, you know! And if Jesus is a divine person, which He claimed and the Church has continually claimed, it would follow, wouldn’t it?.. I know you don’t believe it, though. It doesn’t follow from your not believing it that it’s necessarily untrue.

Love for Jesus. Everything bad for muhammad. hatred for muhammad.

You call this one of our Church’s teachings? Where did you get it from? The Vatican?

Only Jesus is sinless. No one else, not even other prophets (Abraham, Jacob and Moses) are sinless.

Well, Mary his mother is also sinless. She had to be to bear the Son of God Himself.But like I said, you don’t believe this. It’s a matter of grace and of faith.

These are problems with church teachings. they have a strange balance which is un-naturally originally tilted in their favor.**

Un-naturally “tilted” in their favor in which way(s)? What do you mean?

 

[Lapell]

I should have put a (-) in front of my paragraphs, but anyhow, my replies are there in every 2 paragraphs, and you can distinguish them with what is said in them, can’t you?!

 

[Reuben_J]

I think whatever good seed planted by the Holy Spirit of God into our hearts will also only accept that which will nourish it and make it grow to the true intention of our Creator for us which is GOOD. And anything that is not in line with your true nature will be convicted by the Holy spirit as false and unacceptable.

Remember** “He who started a good work in you, will also be faithful to complete it GOOD in you”:**thumbsup:

God bless you Rueben J, for God gave you a discerning heart

Thank you for your encouraging words. Please do pray for each other even as we indulge ourselves in the Internet because we never know what we are dealing with. As Christians we can’t fight the world on its term. Very often, like the Lord says, we are just like sheep being led to the slaughterhouse.

It strikes me in the other thread where a poster mentioned that there is great possibility that some posters of the other religion are engaging in the activity of brainwashing – keep saying that we worship three deities to justify their bigotry. It also put us targets for conversion and subjugation.

At least it makes us wary and aware that some inherent dubious scheme is at work and that we should maintain our steadfastness in our faith in the Lord. God helps us. I agree it is the Holy Spirit that prompted me that the things I saw in the Quran are not compatible with what that’s in me.

God bless you too.

+Lord, cover us with the most precious blood of your Son, Jesus, which was shed on the cross, to shield us from the scheme and the trickery of the Evil One. Grant that we may be strengthened in our own faith and may you bless us with wisdom to recognize what is not from you and protect us from all deceits and lies. In Jesus name. Amen.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning it is now world without end. Amen. +

 

[paarsurrey]

I can’t say about Hindus or Buddhists.

Hindus and Buddhists. Don’t compare them to the Jews. Hindus and Buddhists have nothing on them.

Hi

Please explain as to what you mean by “Hindus and Buddhists have nothing on them”?

Why Hindus and Buddhists cannot be compared with Jews?

I think they are as humans as Jews. Jews don’t have three eyes and four ears;the sam erring human beings.

If Jews have some good words in their religios books in their praise; Hindus have even more words in their books. If Jews are proud of OTBible an old book for guidance; Hindus Vedas are even more ancient.

Equity, please

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi my dear swariffin!

In my opinion that the issue “Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross” is in the centre of the subject **adding sense to Islam and/or Catholicism **.

If you don’t want to argue about the Quran verse, and you choose to bring the subject of “Jesus did not die a cursed death on Cross”, so, please present your analysis for this. I hope you bring a new idea about this, not from the old posting of yours which has been answered many times.

I hope you can see my face and my eyes, so you know that I am writing this, in the friendly way.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

A good question from Muslim Woman. Only Islam’s Revealed Book Quran respects Jesus and Mary; for others Reuben J should quote from Hindus,Jews,Buddhists,Zoroastrians. He cannot. Can he?

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishan

Thanks

Why would the Hindu or Buddhist scripture has something about Jesus. Those religions have existed thousands of years prior to Jesus. Their book would not have anything about Jesus, the Romans, the Jews of the Cross at all. It is illogical if you expect their books mentioned anything about Jesus.

The Jew did acknowledge that Jesus died at the cross. In fact, they were the ones who did the crucifiction in collaboration with the Romans.

If Quran respects Jesus, why the shahada only mentioned Muhammad? and yet you claim that Muhammad is equal to all prophets? Quran said that Jesus is Kalimatthulah and none in Quran nor Hadiths mentioning Muhammad as Kalimathullah. And yet, Muhammad attached his name beside Allah in the Shahada.

 

[swariffin]

I have read it a few times but everytime when I did I was so revolted that I just could not continue. It is full of hatred and being non-Muslims we are so alienated there. There is so much threats and criticism I feel there is something evil about it that I can’t quite explain. Maybe I was biased but that how I feel whenever I read and touch the Quran.

The Meccan verses of Quran, I have no problem with. Muhammad may claim to come from God, and I won’t say anything although I disagree.

But the violent Medina verses lead me to believe (a) Muhammad was tricked by the devil, so he wan unable to differentiate good and evil, or (b) Uthsman in the 700AD rewrote/corrupted the unknown real verses since it was burnt. He did that, because the Medina verses give him the full un-overthrown-able leadership.

Well, how can we know for sure since the original is burnt already. Authenticity can only be given by arguments or claims. No facts, nor even logic can be presented.

 

[swariffin]

Dear planten, This sounds to me like a strong, exaggerated accusation! That because “the rest of Christian friends” are quiet it would mean that they are “allowing” that “abuse” and thus we would be “equally guilty”!
First of all, not all of the Catholics (nor all the other Christians either) do participate in the CAF! Far from it!
And then, not every Christian, even among us Catholics, necessarily draws the same conclusions as R_not’s! But among them there are many who feel what R_not has said might reflect true facts at least of a portion of Islam, or rather of the Muslims.
For this reason, I am sure it keeps them from “saying anything”.
Also, not so many of us are interested when we feel it’s just a battle of words, or something looking like a political debate where the participants try to make us swallow some lies along with maybe some truths, and so a number of us simply balk away, with good reason.

I missed that. I can’t believe that Planten also accuse me as kafir too, as I am equally guilty by not warning R_not to obey Islamic law

 

[planten]

Of course, they don’t hold themselves to their own standards - their own kill, torture, kidnap/enslave, etc others and they do nothing. but, gee - when there is a cartoon - they all get out in force and riot and kill…

**Reply to R_Not, AS far as I know,

1. Jesus was Jew.
2. Jesus was circumsized.
3. Jesus followed the law of Moses a.s. i.e. his superior prophet.
4. Jesus observed the sabath.
5. Jesus never ate the flesh of swine.
6. Jesus LOVED his enemies.

I do not see any sign of any of the above in R_nots now and yet they try to be followers of Jesus. It is about time we looked into some nonsense of the present day christianity too.**

 

[planten]

There is much double standard in christianity.

Easy to say from the outside!!

Everything good for Jesus.

Only God is only good, you know! And if Jesus is a divine person, which He claimed and the Church has continually claimed, it would follow, wouldn’t it?.. I know you don’t believe it, though. It doesn’t follow from your not believing it that it’s necessarily untrue.

Love for Jesus. Everything bad for muhammad. hatred for muhammad.

You call this one of our Church’s teachings? Where did you get it from? The Vatican?

Only Jesus is sinless. No one else, not even other prophets (Abraham, Jacob and Moses) are sinless.

Well, Mary his mother is also sinless. She had to be to bear the Son of God Himself.But like I said, you don’t believe this. It’s a matter of grace and of faith.

These are problems with church teachings. they have a strange balance which is un-naturally originally tilted in their favor.

** I do not know who has mixed up my post with replies, all got mixed. It would be better not to read the above statements because they do not tell who has written each line.**

 

[R_not]

I missed that. I can’t believe that Planten also accuse me as kafir too, as I am equally guilty by not warning R_not to obey Islamic law

Thanks, I figured I was a kafir well before he had the courage to openly pronounce that upon me. I felt proud that I earned that name.

:dancing: I felt like one of these guys ====> :knight1:

 

[paarsurrey]

The Meccan verses of Quran, I have no problem with. Muhammad may claim to come from God, and I won’t say anything although I disagree.

But the violent Medina verses lead me to believe (a) Muhammad was tricked by the devil, so he wan unable to differentiate good and evil, or (b) Uthsman in the 700AD rewrote/corrupted the unknown real verses since it was burnt. He did that, because the Medina verses give him the full un-overthrown-able leadership.

Well, how can we know for sure since the original is burnt already. Authenticity can only be given by arguments or claims. No facts, nor even logic can be presented.

Hi friend sister swariffin!

Which verse irritates you the most;please.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

**Reply to R_Not, AS far as I know,

1. Jesus was Jew.
2. Jesus was circumsized.
3. Jesus followed the law of Moses a.s. i.e. his superior prophet.
4. Jesus observed the sabath.
5. Jesus never ate the flesh of swine.
6. Jesus LOVED his enemies.

I do not see any sign of any of the above in R_nots now and yet they try to be followers of Jesus. It is about time we looked into some nonsense of the present day christianity too.**

R_not is imperfect, Planten, I pray that Jesus will touch R_not so he becomes more and more perfect, as the Father in heaven is perfect.

 

[R_not]

There is much double standard in christianity.

Easy to say from the outside!!

Everything good for Jesus.

Only God is only good, you know! And if Jesus is a divine person, which He claimed and the Church has continually claimed, it would follow, wouldn’t it?.. I know you don’t believe it, though. It doesn’t follow from your not believing it that it’s necessarily untrue.

Love for Jesus. Everything bad for muhammad. hatred for muhammad.

You call this one of our Church’s teachings? Where did you get it from? The Vatican?

Only Jesus is sinless. No one else, not even other prophets (Abraham, Jacob and Moses) are sinless.

Well, Mary his mother is also sinless. She had to be to bear the Son of God Himself.But like I said, you don’t believe this. It’s a matter of grace and of faith.

These are problems with church teachings. they have a strange balance which is un-naturally originally tilted in their favor.

** I do not know who has mixed up my post with replies, all got mixed. It would be better not to read the above statements because they do not tell who has written each line.**

There is no double standard. Read each text of each book. Oh and that means NOT your version of the Bible - but the real Bible. You have never met the challenge of proving the Bible was corrupted other than by the words of an illiterate pagan who was not a Christian or a Jew. when you read the koran and hadiths - you can find that mohammed was not a nice guy. When you read the Bible, you get a different picture of Jesus.

And then there is the history of islam, its imperialistic nature, its trail of blood that it leaves behind it and how islam glorifies those who murder people, and enslave women and children, and are told to deceive us whenever they need to do so.

Sorry, but your indignation is not justified because you are in denial about it all - that is your problem. Read your texts. I post them all the time - it is YOUR, or islam’s, texts - not mine.

 

[planten]

The Meccan verses of Quran, I have no problem with. Muhammad may claim to come from God, and I won’t say anything although I disagree.

But the violent Medina verses lead me to believe (a) Muhammad was tricked by the devil, so he wan unable to differentiate good and evil, or (b) Uthsman in the 700AD rewrote/corrupted the unknown real verses since it was burnt. He did that, because the Medina verses give him the full un-overthrown-able leadership.

Well, how can we know for sure since the original is burnt already. Authenticity can only be given by arguments or claims. No facts, nor even logic can be presented.

Swariffin, did you read the bible OT? Did you notice any difference in the verses pertaining to the period that Moses a.s. was inside Egypt and the verses that pertain to the period when Jews came out of Egypt.???

If you obseved any difference then please tell us what was all that. Thanks.

 

[Trishie]

I would hope that thread headings such as ‘the Nonsense of Islam’ are never used again. Just as we would be offended by a similar thread title regarding Christians as a Catholic Christian I found it offensive to have such a title applied to someone else’s beliefs. Of course it would offend!

We ought always to treat others as we wish to be treated and when we don’t, we’re ignoring Jesus’ teaching to ‘love others as ourselves.’ I don’t think it was intended to be un-Christian but that it was a result of the OP’s enthusiasm…nevertheless, could moderators please seek agreement with the poster to change thread titles like this one?

 

[paarsurrey]

Why would the Hindu or Buddhist scripture has something about Jesus. Those religions have existed thousands of years prior to Jesus. Their book would not have anything about Jesus, the Romans, the Jews of the Cross at all. It is illogical if you expect their books mentioned anything about Jesus.

Hi sister swariffin!

Please don’t be angry. Jesus had a role to play which the Catholics don’t know, as the NTBible does not present full account of his life; Paul drifted them away from Jesus. When Jesus absented himself from Judea; he emerged in India and then spent more than double the age he had lived in Judea. Hindu sources duly record glimpses of it.

Religion has no boundries of time and space; Hindu claim that Jesus was mentioned in their scriptures hundreds years before his arrival in India.

Buddhist sources also meniton of Jesus in India.

If Jesus was for the whole world , as do the Catholic claim; then India is in this world not out of it. What is so illogical about it?

May be it does not suit the Catholics; so they tailor their concepts, in my opinion, so that Jesus suits them. To me, the Catholics should mould themselves to the real Jesus, in stead of the mythical one.

You are a nice friend.

Thanks

 

[R_not]

“Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.” (The Qur’an: 033.057)

Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

there are too many surahs about killing others, stealing from them, enslaving them, and subjugate them to post.

Then there is the deception. How can one trust any muslim?!
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”

Qur’an 66:2 “Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows.”

And this is a common tactic to use to prevent people from questioning - to also brainwash them:

Qur’an 5:101 “Believers! Do not ask questions about things which if made plain and declared to you, may vex you, causing you trouble.”

Qur’an 5:102 “Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account they lost their faith and became disbelievers.” duh, no kidding!

Then we have the looter, the thief (oops, another commandment is broken!!):

Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

Ironic that mohammed waged offensive battles and raids, not defensive ones - here he is talking about people just defending themselves. And this is repeated to this day - the muslims claiming victimhood when the ones they attack just defend themselves!

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides…their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

There are too many to list that are a problem in the koran. Basically the majority of the book is a problem!

 

[Eucharisted]

I would hope that thread headings such as ‘the Nonsense of Islam’ are never used again. Just as we would be offended by a similar thread title regarding Christians as a Catholic Christian I found it offensive to have such a title applied to someone else’s beliefs. Of course it would offend!

We ought always to treat others as we wish to be treated and when we don’t, we’re ignoring Jesus’ teaching to ‘love others as ourselves.’ I don’t think it was intended to be un-Christian but that it was a result of the OP’s enthusiasm…nevertheless, could moderators please seek agreement with the poster to change thread titles like this one?

You make a good point and now I understand what the fuss is about the thread offending Islam. I apologize to Muslims for the title and I think the title should definitely be changed since it offends. Maybe to “Discussion on the Qu’ran and Hadith”?

 

[R_not]

I would hope that thread headings such as ‘the Nonsense of Islam’ are never used again. Just as we would be offended by a similar thread title regarding Christians as a Catholic Christian I found it offensive to have such a title applied to someone else’s beliefs. Of course it would offend!

We ought always to treat others as we wish to be treated and when we don’t, we’re ignoring Jesus’ teaching to ‘love others as ourselves.’ I don’t think it was intended to be un-Christian but that it was a result of the OP’s enthusiasm…nevertheless, could moderators please seek agreement with the poster to change thread titles like this one?

Then you really need to do some reading of the koran and some of the hadiths. faithfreedom.org has plenty there, and as for how they treat non-muslims - go to jihadwatch.org for news worldwide.

a couple of books,
‘A Never Ending War’,
‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’ and
‘They Must Be Stopped: Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Can Do It’
The Third Jihad - 30 minute free version