Disillusioned by the world

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News, I don’t think there’s much point discussing your girlfriend’s demerits. If she really pulled “your friends are liars” out of thin air, that’s indeed insane talk and little is needed further. Basically, a disturbed person, possibly someone afflicted with issues reducing her accountability. That, or it may be one of psychopathic traits (in which case the level of disturbance and accountability is a bit of an unknown). Passive-aggressive rudeness coming with open lies (relying on she says it so it outranks reality?) does point towards a psychopathic tendency. I’m no psychologist, but it does look a bit like a sado-masochistic relationship or something of that sort. To her merit, she worked hard, so maybe she was a very unhappy person who couldn’t act otherwise due to compulsions she wasn’t prepared to defeat, which might have been the reason why you stayed with her for so long.

The getting drunk etc. but not seeing you routine clearly showed the priorities, although it shows that she was disturbed to a great extent, so it’s debatable to what extent one could attribute her actions to anything like a real choice. Anyway, that kind of choice of priorities is not acceptable. Generally, at this point I’m prepared to let a woman go if this happens at least once after my bringing it up (which I will) and I’m not talking about necessarily getting plastered (which is a different kind of problem too).

Looks like horrible experience. You might do well to find a Catholic therapist to talk about it. Just so that you’re more sure that you’re ready when the right girl turns up.

The problem with psychopaths is that often logical inconsistencies are the only clue apart from the (not always so) obvious (especially to you) wrongness of their behaviour. They won’t always seem to be bad people. They won’t always be bad people. People with personality issues or psychic defects will often be suffering people and it’s hard to say bad things of them, while an attempt at a romantic relationship might prove disastrous and land you in the same place.

For comparison, my experience tends to involve unilateral decisions on timings without ill will and perhaps without a disturbed air, but generally always her timing, her decision, impotence of my arguments, lack of meaning of my concerns, no consideration of my feelings with regard to it, some internal opposition to taking my feelings into consideration let alone involving me in the timing decisions. Now I clearly see it as a red flag and something that basically shows someone doesn’t really need you as much. A girl who is in love with you needs to see you and doesn’t ration it.

Obviously, logical inconsistencies are a red flag too. No one will be perfectly consistent at all times, but some things indicate carelessness or lack of meaning of what one says. Some people are generally careless like that, so they will end up inconsistent in literal terms (e.g. this happens to me, so I have natural empathy for women with this problem), in other cases being in love will make people act that way (it distorts your logic) but when coupled with signs of disregard or low respect or low need for companionship, it probably means limited attachment and not very serious treatment. And therefore, red flag. Just note that even gross cases sometimes result from internal conflict, which is a problem of itself but doesn’t indicate dishonesty or disrespect (both of which are red flags, by the way).

Note: pick well. A Church Tribunal investigating cases won’t bail you out of a marriage with someone who does not have a diagnosed grave disorder affecting an essential property/element of marriage.

Eh, maybe one more note: Women will often be more collected, organised and focused on education, work etc. in terms of duties and chores, than men, which may result in sticking to a healthy lifestyle and cautious scheduling more so than in the case of men, so if it *really *concerns some duties or chores or a healthy lifestyle (meaning sleep hours etc.), then it doesn’t mean you’re low on the list of priorities, it means she’s responsible. Obviously, getting plastered with friends is not a duty and has little to do with healthy lifestyle. 😉 But you may meet a studious girl yet, so just so you know (which obviously doesn’t oblige you to be happy to accept a priority list position after a long list of extracurriculars, which basically shows the person in question isn’t really ready for a relationship).
 
Chev, thanks for the post, you always say the right things.

As for the ex, the one thing that I can say is that passive agressive is the best term I would use to describe her! Ya… overall, an unpleasant experience, that as you can tell has left me slightly uneasy about women and relationships in general.

You seem to have a lot of strength with all the red flagging and what not. I think I should employ that too. But all too often men are just told that red flags are actually just our own selfishness shining through. It’s hard to deal with that kind of thing. Never know what is or isn’t a reasonable or unreasonable thought or request.

Hey, if a women has priorities that are healthy I am all for being low on the priority list! Unless I’m married 😉 God should come first, then getting work done and all that. But placing bad habits ahead of me is a no no, but bad habits in the first place are a no no!
 
Well, News, can’t say I’m not uneasy myself, actually. I’m a bit too hasty to assign meaning to things if I don’t keep it in check, for example. As for strength, it’s hard to say. I often end up being soft and the last time, I kept ignoring problems on the grounds that one shouldn’t jump to conclusions after one or two (or three) sexualised elocutions or displays. In the end, they probably should have offered testimony of a secular system of values, which is not enough to build a healthy relationship on.
Red flags can be selfishness because it’s letting a whole person go because of one detail. That means one thing decides on ending or never starting a relationship. On the other hand, a good test is turning the table. Swap the sexes of the “bad” man and the" good" woman. If perception begins to change, it means something was fishy from start.

Don’t run into the “comfort” of low expectations, as if you can’t be disappointed if you don’t expect too much. There’s truth in that, but it doesn’t mean you should accept poor treatment. In the beginning, you’re just almost just another guy, so you can’t expect her to drop everything. Still, she should be respectful and offer you polite recognition. Work is work, but if she can’t make room for you, then she can’t make room for an interested guy, so what does that say about her readiness in terms of the place where she is in life? (Much more so if she claims to be interested.) Then, if she can’t make room for you vis-a-vis non-essential routines, this is a question of psychological readiness, not just place in life.

After God, family, maybe the best of friends, work, the place on list of priorities is not low at all. By contrast if meeting you fails to compete with drinking any beer watching anything that was able to be rented, or a session of window shopping, or she finishes early on a sudden decision to have an unscheduled gym visit or spa, then perhaps she simply isn’t all that into you but likes the attention or doesn’t want to miss out on a chance. Same goes if a meeting with you will be cancelled because friends have phoned with an offer of going to the pub, or the weather has become less than stellar. The other possibility is that she expects that you will always be around and ready to heed her every call and make adjustments to meet here. Here people say you just need to show her that you have your life too and this won’t happen. This somehow fits with human psychology.

…However, my preference would be to let go if possible. Obviously, she isn’t interested or doesn’t care and has a long way to make before she’s ready to share her life. Someone else, whether more interested in you or less self-focused, would treat you better. Love generally relies on reciprocity and what kind of reciprocity is that anyway? So skip it and don’t be a beta orbiter, as The Bucket was kind enough to put it in some other thread.

Heh, in fact, I believe I’ve observed a bit of a Runaway Syndrome in the course of my life. Good reason or bad reason, real excuse or fake excuse, the common theme is being unable to meet you or having to go all the time. I haven’t been able to discern the root of it, but it probably falls somewhere between lack of real interest in the man and lack of readiness for commitment. In rare cases–delicate internal balance which resists rapid change.

Reactions matter too, i.e. are reasons given, what reasons, in what way, is she sorry, is she angry with you for any reason, does she stay polite or does she not care etc. Speaking of, politeness and concern are very, very good thing for a person to have and you know where I’m driving at.
 
Again, interesting post. I might reply in more detail after I’ve made supper (if I have the energy :p)

But yeah, with regards to my ex girl, remember we had been dating for just under 7 months when all this was happening (getting trashed instead of seeing me etc) so I wasn’t an insignificant part of her life! At least, I though not. But to be honest, its a sore point for me in some ways, because it was one of HER reasons for the somewhat mutual break up. She said she needed someone who would go out with her to get smashed because thats what boyfriends do. Apparently, by staying at home being faithful not wasting my life drinking and by looking after her when she was drunk I was considered to be a bad person :confused::p:confused:😛

I too ignored red flags that were problems for me, especially with regards to some sexual things. I wont even get into how I was given a verbal attack after I asked her not to grind on 2 guys at the same time (grinding in general is just shocking stuff). I should have known better, indeed. Red flags are there for a reason. But as I said, I struggle to see where I’m being selfish or if I am being selfish. People used to tell me, dude just relax so what if your girl grinds guys/thinks Jesus was a hippy/believed in Tarot cards/thought nothing of sex. But I suppose, though I’m not sure, that when the right kind of person comes along red flags aren’t even an issue.
 
I agree on grinding, 'nuff said. Dancing moves being too sexual is a common problem and it may be unreasonable to cross someone out for milder sexualised forms (as much as heartbreaking they are to see), but grinding is not a mild form. (Not to pass judgement on your ex, but this has to be said about the actions themselves.) Neither is such kind of dancing compatible with monogamy as far as I go. I’m believed intolerant and even possessive because of these views. As for red flags not being an issue, well, perhaps they aren’t an issue when you meet the right person, but when they are not being an issue, then you can be pretty sure you’ll find the wrong person.

Speaking off, putting dancing style more firmly on my list of red flags. It’s just too hard to give up when you’ve already invested yourself. Probably better to avoid from start.
 
Again, interesting post. I might reply in more detail after I’ve made supper (if I have the energy :p)

But yeah, with regards to my ex girl, remember we had been dating for just under 7 months when all this was happening (getting trashed instead of seeing me etc) so I wasn’t an insignificant part of her life! At least, I though not. But to be honest, its a sore point for me in some ways, because it was one of HER reasons for the somewhat mutual break up. She said she needed someone who would go out with her to get smashed because thats what boyfriends do. Apparently, by staying at home being faithful not wasting my life drinking and by looking after her when she was drunk I was considered to be a bad person :confused::p:confused:😛

I too ignored red flags that were problems for me, especially with regards to some sexual things. I wont even get into how I was given a verbal attack after I asked her not to grind on 2 guys at the same time (grinding in general is just shocking stuff). I should have known better, indeed. Red flags are there for a reason. But as I said, I struggle to see where I’m being selfish or if I am being selfish. People used to tell me, dude just relax so what if your girl grinds guys/thinks Jesus was a hippy/believed in Tarot cards/thought nothing of sex. But I suppose, though I’m not sure, that when the right kind of person comes along red flags aren’t even an issue.
When the right person comes along, there won’t be any red flags. Red flags, especially the crimson ones that you speak of here…are indications to get out now. No need to entertain a girl who wants to go out, get drunk, grind on guys…and then throw it in your face. I think as Christians, we feel if we are not giving people the benefit of the doubt, we are somehow being uncharitable. You don’t have to tolerate bad behavior, to show you are tolerant. You can be loving from a distance. I think that at the end of the day,if someone robs you of your peace…and tries to put a wedge between you and your faith…it’d be best to move on. People can and do change, but they have to for themselves, rarely do people change (longlasting) if they are doing it because a bf/gf asks them to. I hope you find a good woman someday, who is on the same page as you. They’re out there, waiting to be ‘‘found.’’ 🙂
 
Well, News, can’t say I’m not uneasy myself, actually. I’m a bit too hasty to assign meaning to things if I don’t keep it in check, for example. As for strength, it’s hard to say. I often end up being soft and the last time, I kept ignoring problems on the grounds that one shouldn’t jump to conclusions after one or two (or three) sexualised elocutions or displays. In the end, they probably should have offered testimony of a secular system of values, which is not enough to build a healthy relationship on.
Red flags can be selfishness because it’s letting a whole person go because of one detail. That means one thing decides on ending or never starting a relationship. On the other hand, a good test is turning the table. Swap the sexes of the “bad” man and the" good" woman. If perception begins to change, it means something was fishy from start.

Don’t run into the “comfort” of low expectations, as if you can’t be disappointed if you don’t expect too much. There’s truth in that, but it doesn’t mean you should accept poor treatment. In the beginning, you’re just almost just another guy, so you can’t expect her to drop everything. Still, she should be respectful and offer you polite recognition. Work is work, but if she can’t make room for you, then she can’t make room for an interested guy, so what does that say about her readiness in terms of the place where she is in life? (Much more so if she claims to be interested.) Then, if she can’t make room for you vis-a-vis non-essential routines, this is a question of psychological readiness, not just place in life.

After God, family, maybe the best of friends, work, the place on list of priorities is not low at all. By contrast if meeting you fails to compete with drinking any beer watching anything that was able to be rented, or a session of window shopping, or she finishes early on a sudden decision to have an unscheduled gym visit or spa, then perhaps she simply isn’t all that into you but likes the attention or doesn’t want to miss out on a chance. Same goes if a meeting with you will be cancelled because friends have phoned with an offer of going to the pub, or the weather has become less than stellar. The other possibility is that she expects that you will always be around and ready to heed her every call and make adjustments to meet here. Here people say you just need to show her that you have your life too and this won’t happen. This somehow fits with human psychology.

…However, my preference would be to let go if possible. Obviously, she isn’t interested or doesn’t care and has a long way to make before she’s ready to share her life. Someone else, whether more interested in you or less self-focused, would treat you better. Love generally relies on reciprocity and what kind of reciprocity is that anyway? So skip it and don’t be a beta orbiter, as The Bucket was kind enough to put it in some other thread.

Heh, in fact, I believe I’ve observed a bit of a Runaway Syndrome in the course of my life. Good reason or bad reason, real excuse or fake excuse, the common theme is being unable to meet you or having to go all the time. I haven’t been able to discern the root of it, but it probably falls somewhere between lack of real interest in the man and lack of readiness for commitment. In rare cases–delicate internal balance which resists rapid change.

Reactions matter too, i.e. are reasons given, what reasons, in what way, is she sorry, is she angry with you for any reason, does she stay polite or does she not care etc. Speaking of, politeness and concern are very, very good thing for a person to have and you know where I’m driving at.
takes copious notes
 
When the right person comes along, there won’t be any red flags. Red flags, especially the crimson ones that you speak of here…are indications to get out now. No need to entertain a girl who wants to go out, get drunk, grind on guys…and then throw it in your face. I think as Christians, we feel if we are not giving people the benefit of the doubt, we are somehow being uncharitable. You don’t have to tolerate bad behavior, to show you are tolerant. You can be loving from a distance. I think that at the end of the day,if someone robs you of your peace…and tries to put a wedge between you and your faith…it’d be best to move on. People can and do change, but they have to for themselves, rarely do people change (longlasting) if they are doing it because a bf/gf asks them to. I hope you find a good woman someday, who is on the same page as you. They’re out there, waiting to be ‘‘found.’’ 🙂
Whenever I read your posts, I feel nicer inside :o

Thanks for that, it brightened my day a bit :o

I would by lying if I didn’t admit that I have lost some self respect, from allowing the relationship to continue in light of the red flags I ignored. No girl should ever be be doing anything sexually enticing to or with another man. Sigh. Makes me wonder (forgive the self pity) what is wrong with me and what I did wrong :mad: I have a slightly skewed view on most women now sadly, as if they’re all just there to bring me grief :rolleyes:

I’ll use this opportunity to thank God for all he has done, and to pray to St. Raphael.
 
I would by lying if I didn’t admit that I have lost some self respect, from allowing the relationship to continue in light of the red flags I ignored. No girl should ever be be doing anything sexually enticing to or with another man. Sigh. Makes me wonder (forgive the self pity) what is wrong with me and what I did wrong :mad: I have a slightly skewed view on most women now sadly, as if they’re all just there to bring me grief :rolleyes:
No no, don’t get stuck there. It’s a process. It’s over, and it sounds like you learned a lot from the experience. Now you know what to look for. Praise God, he has better things in store for you. Do you believe that? Time to move on.

We’re not all like that, you know.
 
takes copious notes
I’m glad if my outpourings can help you any. Psychopaths are far more dangerous and damaging to women than they are to men, I believe. This may be a romanticised outlook, but the way I see it, those (and I’m not necessarily talking about real psychos, but “psychos” maybe even more so) stand behind deranged post-traumatic women and deranged women stand behind jaded wounded folks like yours truly. In other words, it’s hurt people who hurt people, which leads to more hurt people. Avoid men who are abusive, who play your feelings, who disrespect you, who otherwise torment you. In doing this, you will also avoid hurting further people who would then hurt even further ones. I wish I had been in your current place when I was your age, and able to stay there (or rather, keep progressing from there).
 
Whenever I read your posts, I feel nicer inside :o

Thanks for that, it brightened my day a bit :o

I would by lying if I didn’t admit that I have lost some self respect, from allowing the relationship to continue in light of the red flags I ignored. No girl should ever be be doing anything sexually enticing to or with another man. Sigh. Makes me wonder (forgive the self pity) what is wrong with me and what I did wrong :mad: I have a slightly skewed view on most women now sadly, as if they’re all just there to bring me grief :rolleyes:

I’ll use this opportunity to thank God for all he has done, and to pray to St. Raphael.
It’s completely understandable to grow as they say, ‘‘jaded.’’ You are human, that happens when we’re kicked in the teeth a few times in life. (ok, that was dramatic, but you know what I mean) 😃 Put it this way…***we don’t need to eat a ton of junkfood to know it’s bad for us, right? ***Same with women who might not have YOUR best interests at heart…you don’t need to keep dating them to know the relationship is bad for you. It’s trusting your gut, and going with that, sometimes, that makes the difference. I know…a girl might be very pretty, so a guy tolerates just one more day of her shenanigans. A guy might be charming, so a girl will tolerate just one more indiscretion. I have been there…but as you continue on…again, you don’t need to experience something bad, to know it’s bad.

I will say that it COULD be you, if this it the type of girl you EXCLUSIVELY attract…if not, then don’t worry. We all tolerate more than we should, at various points in our dating lives…but, get to know yourself and your desires…and not that you shouldn’t bend, but don’t ever tolerate immorality. Jesus loved all sinners, and we are all sinners, so we should be like Jesus, and love everyone. But, Jesus didn’t tolerate sin…if anything, accepting sin is not loving. He prayed for people, He told them to sin no more…but, He didn’t tolerate nor teach us to tolerate sin. So…walking away from an unhealthy relationship, is not an unChristian thing to do…sometimes, that very stance can help a woman to grow…and realize, hey, my behavior here needs to change, or I’m going to continue to run off all the decent guys out there. Just food for thought.

Hugs. :hug1:*
 
I would by lying if I didn’t admit that I have lost some self respect, from allowing the relationship to continue in light of the red flags I ignored. No girl should ever be be doing anything sexually enticing to or with another man. Sigh. Makes me wonder (forgive the self pity) what is wrong with me and what I did wrong :mad: I have a slightly skewed view on most women now sadly, as if they’re all just there to bring me grief :rolleyes:
I understand you but just look there at a practicing Catholic girl who sincerely lives her faith. What grief will she bring you or, rather, what grief is she out to bring you? If you ever see golden cascades (or inkjet or red or auburn, or dirty brown, whatever) scattered over the top of a pew or a line of beads passing between gentle fingers, you will not think of any grief waiting for you, really. 😉
 
I understand you but just look there at a practicing Catholic girl who sincerely lives her faith. What grief will she bring you or, rather, what grief is she out to bring you? If you ever see golden cascades (or inkjet or red or auburn, or dirty brown, whatever) scattered over the top of a pew or a line of beads passing between gentle fingers, you will not think of any grief waiting for you, really. 😉
Aw that’s lovely 🙂
 
I’m very pro-life but I find your comparison between the Jews in the holocaust and unborn children repulsive.

Nothing is comparable to the horrors that the Jewish people went through. Nothing. Period. Abortion is a nightmarish evil, as was the holocaut.
I think everyone would agree that the horrors that the Jewish people had to go through during the holocaust were absolutely the worst kind of torture anyone could imagine. Approximately 6 million were killed!

But I don’t think the comparison to unborn children was repulsive. Did you know that there have been 20 to 30 million of the most innocent babies in the womb are legally killed every year!
 
I am SO glad I came across this site! As a model 22yr model living in L.A. I cannot stress to you how much I relate! I have changed so much (thanks be to God!) and meeting other young like-minded Catholics is almost impossible. The ones who don’t party, do drugs, and stay out of trouble like myself. It’s almost easier just to stay home and watch a movie, like you said.
I was starting to feel disillusioned by the world myself. It’s very refreshing and a relief to find truly good, GOOD people out there.
God bless and don’t lose hope in humankind!
 
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