Dismissed...Where to go?

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This Pastor has been at this parish for 10 years. He will be up for re-assignment soon. It may not be the healthiest response for the pastor if I leave, as this may be what he wants. If that is the case, he isn’t in the job of saving souls if he doesn’t care about mine.
Besides, he has mentioned his dislike about people who church shop/ parish hop, as many have left our parish. His preferential attitude of parishioners is There IS no where else to go. Am I wrong to think the Bishops office will be too hard on him, and to not trust they will handle this responsibly and professionally?

You of course have no ability to know what the dioceses knows about any particular pastor. There may be other reasons why they seem to have come down hard on him. I have dealt with difficult priests in the past. The response of course always needs to focus on the best for the People of God and that also includes you. If comfortable just attend Mass for awhile and take a break. You can every now and then attend at another parish. Usually the diocese will forward a letter or information to a pastor to allow him to correct the situation, but they usually delete any reference to who it came from. I take it he learned that the letter came from you via some other manner.

 

[jmcrae]

THE CCC is quite clear. it is a gravely disordered action. You can twist, and bend the interpretations any way you like but it doesn’t change the fact that it is a gravely disordered action. The CCC is is not confusing, but when we try to explain away all the possibilities, it becomes confused and muddied.

“Masturbation” is defined as bringing oneself to orgasm, while alone. Obviously, that isn’t what’s happening in the marriage bed between a married couple.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

THE CCC is quite clear. it is a gravely disordered action. You can twist, and bend the interpretations any way you like but it doesn’t change the fact that it is a gravely disordered action. The CCC is is not confusing, but when we try to explain away all the possibilities, it becomes confused and muddied.

The sin of masturbation is not the same as touching oneself or the partner during intercourse. If it facilitates and ends in intercourse it is ok.

 

[Cluny]

When I read your initial posting, my intuition told me there is more to this than you are telling.

Your subsequent postings have confirmed my hunch.

What this speaker said was correct, and it was even so taught BEFORE Vatican II (from what one old priest told me decades ago) that manual stimulation (by ether the individual or spouse) is permitted to facilitate marital intercourse.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please keep to the OP topic. Take any side discussions that arise to new or existing threads in the appropriate forum. Thank you all.

 

[maryjk]

Recently I wrote a letter to the Pastor regarding a guest speaker at our Parish that gave incorrect catechesis. I cited the CCC and asked for a public correction. There was no correction or response from the guest speaker or the pastor, therefore I requested a follow-up and response from the Bishops office. This person from the Bishops office referred me back to the Pastor. In turn, the pastor became angry at me for contacting the Bishops office and dismissed me from serving on the Pastoral Council and said the he “didn’t trust me” because of the "trouble " he go into. Needless to say I was very hurt and dismayed as my original intention was to help protect the parishioners from being misled. Where should I go from here? I’ve though about leaving the church, but I 'm wondering if there is a better solution.

Ok, to bring this back on topic…

It seems that you and your Pastor are in a disagreement about a teaching of the Catholic Church. Because you were sure you were right, you wrote the Bishop.

When contacting the Bishop’s office, they referred you back to your Pastor. (Maybe because they agreed with your Pastor?)

After that, you continued to have this disagreement and words were spoken. (I am sure both of you said things, not just your Pastor.) (And if they referred you back to your Pastor, I wonder if he really “got into trouble.” Or if he was just tired of trying to explain where you went wrong in your beliefs.)

And because of all of this, you are really thinking of leaving the Catholic Church.

Sometimes we need to realize that we are wrong in our beliefs. Maybe instead of going to the Bishop when you think the Pastor is wrong, you should make an appointment with him.

 

[quiet52]

To the OP: I don’t know that many parish councils are open to just anyone. In my parish, the pastor chooses the parish council members. They serve as sounding boards, they give advice. They have no “right” to be on the council, they serve at the whim of the pastor, and they serve him. The council is not the boss of the pastor or of the parish. And of course a pastor wants to be able to get along with his council members. You and your pastor don’t get along. This is something you must accept.
I hope you meant you want to quit the parish, not “the Church.” I hope that neither your faith or your sense of membership in the Church aren’t based on your emotions, and that you believe you belong to the Church established by our Lord Himself. Don’t judge the Church by her sinners. Judge the Church by her saints. Pray for your pastor, and be a saint yourself.
By the way, you have no idea whether the pastor personally talked with the guest speaker, after the talk, about any possible concerns.
I hope you’ll discern which of your gifts you can contribute to the Church, whether in your current parish or another.

 

[Seatuck]

CKnickerbocker,

Did the priest explain to you at all why you might be incorrect in your interpretation of what the speaker said ? In other words did he disagree with you that incorrect information about church teaching was given? Did you make an appointment to talk about this calmly? Did you ask for other resources? Did he give you any other resources to look at? That’s the issue I’d have . If he didn’t bother to teach you why you were wrong then he made an error. If he did and you disagree then you may be in the wrong as to how you proceeded. You need to weigh matters of importance before you go to the Bishop with an issue. Some battles are more important to pursue than others. You may indeed have made this priest feel threatened and that he couldn’t trust you . You may have jumped the gun in this case. It’s hard to tell.

From the little explanation of the situation that you’ve given here it is not clear that you are in the right. The CCC is a starting point for teaching. It does not contain the whole of theology whether biblical or moral. It is possible that you need to go deeper on the subject matter at hand. Perhaps getting some moral theology books that are known for orthodoxy . I recommend Jone’s Moral Theology for one. You can get a used copy for very cheap. You could also get one of the Theology of the Body studies and look deeper there. Two book recommendations on the matter of sexuality I have are Christopher West’s Good News about Sex and Marriage and also Greg Popcak’s Holy Sex. You might call the Diocese and ask to speak to a moral theologian to see if your position is correct. I realize in this format of a message board it is difficult to explain certain details without getting inappropriate. A private telephone call with a moral theologian could allow you to do that and he could give you resources to show to your priest if indeed your position is correct.

And as always pray on a matter such as this before , during and after you embark on a course of action.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Because, I’m hurt. His actions have affected my sense of peace and trust.

Maybe he feels the same way about YOU and that is why he asked you to step down from the parish council since he NEEDS to have people on the council that he can trust & depend upon and because of what has transpired, he no longer FEELS that way about you. Remember, nobody has an ENTITLEMENT to be on the parish council.

 

[CKNICKERBOCKER]

There are bylaws. It is the parishioners who elect the Pastoral Council with the Pastor.
If the Pastor just wants to accept everything he is agreeable to, then it is not representative
of the parish.

To the OP: I don’t know that many parish councils are open to just anyone. In my parish, the pastor chooses the parish council members. They serve as sounding boards, they give advice. They have no “right” to be on the council, they serve at the whim of the pastor, and they serve him. The council is not the boss of the pastor or of the parish. And of course a pastor wants to be able to get along with his council members. You and your pastor don’t get along. This is something you must accept.
I hope you meant you want to quit the parish, not “the Church.” I hope that neither your faith or your sense of membership in the Church aren’t based on your emotions, and that you believe you belong to the Church established by our Lord Himself. Don’t judge the Church by her sinners. Judge the Church by her saints. Pray for your pastor, and be a saint yourself.
By the way, you have no idea whether the pastor personally talked with the guest speaker, after the talk, about any possible concerns.
I hope you’ll discern which of your gifts you can contribute to the Church, whether in your current parish or another.

 

[jmcrae]

There are bylaws. It is the parishioners who elect the Pastoral Council with the Pastor.
If the Pastor just wants to accept everything he is agreeable to, then it is not representative
of the parish.

The pastor is not required to “represent the parish” - he is required to represent Christ and the true teachings of the Church.The members of the Parish Council represent the parish, and they are the means of communication between the various organizations in the parish, and the Pastor. They bring reports of the activities of these groups to the Parish Council meetings for the pastor to hear, and then he gives them messages to bring back to the various groups - assignments of things for them to do, etc…

 

[Sir_Knight]

There are bylaws. It is the parishioners who elect the Pastoral Council with the Pastor.
If the Pastor just wants to accept everything he is agreeable to, then it is not representative
of the parish.

It is the Pastor who is ultimately responsible for the parish and he needs people on the council that he FEELS that he can work with.

 

[Phemie]

The problem is that most people who are on parish councils think that the Parish Council has a mandate to run the parish. It doesn’t. Canon Law says that “if there is a parish council” it is a consultative body only. The priest can do whatever he wants and there’s not much the PC can do about it unless he’s violating state or canon law.

The wise priest will surround himself with people who have no agenda beyond what’s best for the Parish and, by extension, the Church.

 

[adowcday]

Recently I wrote a letter to the Pastor regarding a guest speaker at our Parish that gave incorrect catechesis. I cited the CCC and asked for a public correction. There was no correction or response from the guest speaker or the pastor, therefore I requested a follow-up and response from the Bishops office. This person from the Bishops office referred me back to the Pastor. In turn, the pastor became angry at me for contacting the Bishops office and dismissed me from serving on the Pastoral Council and said the he “didn’t trust me” because of the "trouble " he go into. Needless to say I was very hurt and dismayed as my original intention was to help protect the parishioners from being misled. Where should I go from here? I’ve though about leaving the church, but I 'm wondering if there is a better solution.

You went over the pastor’s head because you didn’t get the answer you wanted. Writing to the bishop was intended to have the bishop overrule your pastor. What did you think would happen? I think the pastor was correct in asking you to step down from the pastoral council. You attempted to get the pastor in trouble, now you’re hurt and dismayed because it backfired?

I would’ve done the same thing and for the same reason. From your actions, I would expect you to attempt to overrule the pastor and get him in trouble with the bishop over and over again. Not a good basis for trust and peaceful working relations. I’m not sure what leaving the church will accomplish. Maybe a different parish?

 

[Orogeny]

Recently I wrote a letter to the Pastor regarding a guest speaker at our Parish that gave incorrect catechesis. I cited the CCC and asked for a public correction. There was no correction or response from the guest speaker or the pastor, therefore I requested a follow-up and response from the Bishops office. This person from the Bishops office referred me back to the Pastor. In turn, the pastor became angry at me for contacting the Bishops office and dismissed me from serving on the Pastoral Council and said the he “didn’t trust me” because of the "trouble " he go into. Needless to say I was very hurt and dismayed as my original intention was to help protect the parishioners from being misled. Where should I go from here? I’ve though about leaving the church, but I 'm wondering if there is a better solution.

You were on the Pastoral Council? Why did you write a letter instead of just talking to your pastor in private or even at a PPC meeting?

Peace

Tim

 

[Catholic90]

Recently I wrote a letter to the Pastor regarding a guest speaker at our Parish that gave incorrect catechesis. I cited the CCC and asked for a public correction. There was no correction or response from the guest speaker or the pastor, therefore I requested a follow-up and response from the Bishops office. This person from the Bishops office referred me back to the Pastor. In turn, the pastor became angry at me for contacting the Bishops office and dismissed me from serving on the Pastoral Council and said the he “didn’t trust me” because of the "trouble " he go into. Needless to say I was very hurt and dismayed as my original intention was to help protect the parishioners from being misled. Where should I go from here? I’ve though about leaving the church, but I 'm wondering if there is a better solution.

The speaker said that masturbation within marriage is not a sin. He said nothing within the marital bed is a sin. The ccc states that it is a gravely disordered action, along with pornography etc.

Ok…you listened to a speaker who YOU THOUGHT gave incorrect information (which really was NOT incorrect, since self-touch within the marital bed is okay). You wrote to the pastor, he did not respond in the way YOU WANTED, so you went over his head. The bishop referred you back (so obviously the bishop did not agree that it was wrong, either). The priest is mad at you for going over his head (well, no kidding!). So you stamp your foot and want YOUR WAY.

Hmmmm. If you sat on the council, I would hope you would be able to schedule a meeting with this man and discuss it face to face, which is exactly what should have been done in the first place.

The CC states that masturbation is a sin, as it happens by a person alone. A person is allowed to touch oneself during the marital act! A little humility is called for, I believe.

Or…you can stamp your foot, pick up your toys, and leave. But seriously…

 

[CKNICKERBOCKER]

No, really, the situation was that he got in trouble by the Bishops office. I can’t believe that when a parishioner has a concern about the flock possibly being misled, that they can’t make that point without the fear of retaliation. This Pastor has a very busy schedule. It can be months before getting an appointment. The PC meeting are not the appropriate forum, as one council member was already corrected about bringing up the same issue.

I’ve already decided to re-address the issue with the Bishop’s office since the issue has deteriorated to the point engaging in substandard ethical dilemmas.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Sir_Knight]

As with everything else in life, you pick your battles and deal with the consequences of those choices – either negative or positive.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi,

I am sorry for your pain. It is sad to say, but once you need to go to the Bishop, you will not be comfortable in that Parish. Once you had to go to the Bishop to get a response, you know that there is a problem. And since you need to leave anyway, please do tell the Bishop that you were dismissed from the Parish Council, and felt the need to change Parishes.

I would also explain that the error was not corrected, but be certain that you are not mistaken in your facts.

I think I may have gone back to the Pastor, or another parish priest, before I went to the Bishop, but since it is too late for that, I would not let the matter be left unresolved.

Lux

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

PS–I’m sorry—I didn’t read all the posts before I responded. I think it is not the masturbation itself which is a problem, but where ejaculation occurs. I definitely would not have gone to the Bishop with this one, but that is your choice.

Prayers for a solution which will bring you peace.