Disney creates bisexual lead character

[Thorolfr]

I would posit that part of the problem is the unproven assumption that sexual identity makes a person a “type”.
When all we have to go on for a person’s sexual identity is their own self-report.

Most people are straight and don’t really need to identify themselves that way. But if someone let’s others know that he’s “gay,” it’s a useful way to signal where his romantic interests lie. Otherwise, how would he be able to find other gay men or to let his parents know that he’s unlikely to bring a girlfriend or later a wife to family get togethers?

And what’s the point in bringing up that a person’s sexual orientation can only be known from their own self report? Just because what goes on in someone’s head can’t be verified yet by others doesn’t make it any less real.

If someone goes to the doctor and says he’s feeling depressed, how does the doctor know if he’s telling the truth? Eventually the doctor will probably prescribe the patient an antidepressant based on his own self report. Most psychiatric conditions are diagnosed based on a clinical interview with the patient. There’s no blood test to confirm that the patient is accurately reporting what’s going on in his head.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I guess because I have seen a shift in the gay narrative in my own lifetime.

As in, when I was a kid, one only came out as an adult after a long period of reflection.
It was generally understood that homosexual feelings and actions could be transitory for teens (and in truth they often were), so there was no need to slap a label on oneself in the teen years.

To nowadays when kids as young as 10 or 11 are declaring themselves as an LGBT identity.
Before they’ve even gone thru puberty.
And these kiddos know all the terminology and slogans.
And before they have a clear understanding of what makes babies start.
Hmmm.

We know from history that non standard sexualities have manifested different ways in different times and places.

 

[Thorolfr]

I guess because I have seen a shift in the gay narrative in my own lifetime.

As in, when I was a kid, one only came out as an adult after a long period of reflection.
It was generally understood that homosexual feelings and actions could be transitory for teens (and in truth they often were), so there was no need to slap a label on oneself in the teen years.

To nowadays when kids as young as 10 or 11 are declaring themselves as an LGBT identity.
Before they’ve even gone thru puberty.
And these kiddos know all the terminology and slogans.
And before they have a clear understanding of what makes babies start.
Hmmm.

We know from history that non standard sexualities have manifested different ways in different times and places.

I’m almost 60 and I don’t know anything about it ever being “generally understood that homosexual feelings and actions could be transitory for teens…so there was no need to slap a label on oneself in the teen years.” Back in the 70s, kids didn’t come out as early because there was so much stigma attached to being gay that they would have been afraid to do so. And there could have been serious consequences for doing so like being bullied by their classmates or abused or disowned by their families.

I became aware of gay feelings by the time I was 11 or 12, but I didn’t come out until I was 21. The main reason for that was plain old fear of what might have happened to me if I had come out sooner.

And I’m not aware of this consensus you speak of that homosexual feelings might be transitory in young people.

Things have changed a lot in the last 40 years. There’s not all this stigma or shame attached to being gay and many parents and other family members and classmates are no doubt more understanding now. So it’s not surprising that young people are coming out at a younger age because it’s much safer to do so. I think that’s a positive thing. I wish it had been like this when I was in my teens and it would have saved me from years of anguish and fear.

 

[Peebo]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’m almost 60 and I don’t know anything about it ever being “generally understood that homosexual feelings and actions could be transitory for teens…

If that’s the narrative you want to claim, have at it.

But every book I ever read about adolescent sexuality back when I was a kid learning about sex claimed you couldn’t really know what your orientation was in your teens, and yes, it could change in those years. Girl crushes, sexual experimentation did not mean a teenager was gay.
No. I’m not going to fetch a bibliography for you.

But quite frankly, this is coming across as a bit of gaslighting — hinting that teens don’t experiment or that feelings in teenagers can be fluid.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

I’m almost 60 and I don’t know anything about it ever being “generally understood that homosexual feelings and actions could be transitory for teens…

If that’s the narrative you want to claim, have at it.

But every book I ever read about adolescent sexuality back when I was a kid learning about sex claimed you couldn’t really know what your orientation was in your teens, and yes, it could change in those years. Girl crushes, sexual experimentation did not mean a teenager was gay.
No. I’m not going to fetch a bibliography for you.

But quite frankly, this is coming across as a bit of gaslighting — hinting that teens don’t experiment or that feelings in teenagers can be fluid.

What I said is not a “narrative” in the sense that you are implying, i.e. “a way of presenting or understanding a situation or series of events that reflects and promotes a particular point of view or set of values.” It was just my own personal experience growing up as a gay teen in a small town during the 1970s. Back then, there wasn’t any Internet and most of what I could find about homosexuality was in books about “abnormal psychology” or in mailings that my grandmother got from the Moral Majority which said things like, “Remember, since homosexuals cannot have children of their own, the only way for them to expand their ranks is to recruit your children and mine.” Boys suspected of being gay were bullied and tormented by some of the other boys. I never read anything at that time which suggested that normal teens experimented with gay sex or were unsure of their sexual orientation. After all, until 1973, homosexuality was still classified as a mental illness in the DSM.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Boys suspected of being gay were bullied and tormented by some of the other boys.

That’s something I’ve tried to emphasize to some of the younger posters here. It is relevance to conversations on acceptance of LGBT people and transitions in attitudes over time. I’ve encountered a few people that appear to have not realized that for some knowledge that a person was gay was sufficient for motivating physical assault and for others was enough to get them to turn a blind eye.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I see some people online who I don’t think are even particularly young and want to pretend this stuff never happened. Part of the narrative of LGBT rights going “too far” is to basically pretend there wasn’t a time when LGBT people suffered any kind of generalised abuse in society.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I see some people online who I don’t think are even particularly young and want to pretend this stuff never happened. Part of the narrative of LGBT rights going “too far” is to basically pretend there wasn’t a time when LGBT people suffered any kind of generalised abuse in society.

Among the many threads about the “LGBT Agenda” (this phrase is often presented as to represent something dubious) was “to get acceptance.” In those threads, “acceptance” is presented as a bad thing. Juxtaposed to historical responses “acceptance” is a pretty low bar and isn’t acting for much. It allows a person to exist without being assaulted.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I came to work for a company that had merged. Before the merger, the two companies had very different cultures. One company was composed mostly of morally conservative Christians. The other company was a lot more liberal and was known for being LGBTQ friendly. How these two companies became one is outside of my knowledge, but it does without saying that there were a number of conflicts that arose. Eventually, the company made diversity training mandatory for everyone as a once-a-year event. While the training covered a lot of different types of diversity (religious, racial, gender, so on…) I think it was primarily motivated by trying to assure better interactions on the diversity of sexuality and sexual identity.

Wasn’t long ago that I was in a grocery store line and a customer was staring at the bum of the young lady in front of him. He then made some remarks inviting her to have a sexual experience with him. She replied back that she was gay.

I don’t know if she really was gay or was just saying this to discourage the advances of this man, but to summarize his response he declared that if he were to force a sexual interaction with her it would “cure” her of being gay. That was sufficient to get the responses of the rest of us in the line to make him uncomfortable enough to just leave the line and the store, and the woman was safely escorted to her car without further incident.

But it did remind me of the informal “conversion therapies” that people would suggest upon finding out a person was gay. For women, rape was usually suggested. For men, it was always some form of physical assault to make the man tough.

I think I was in college about the time MTV released a reality show called “The Real World” that had a gay man among the cast. The openly gay man did not fit any of the stereotypes that were popular about gay men. Among my peers, I remember that something that caused them to question what they knew about gay people since this man was so “normal.”

 

[ThinkingSapien]

It’s unfortunately quite common. I think the public response, if it occurred on a larger scale, might help curb such behaviour.

A gay relative of mine in a grocery store line and the woman behind him made some derogatory remark about him being gay. I found his response to her to be thought provoking. With a loud voice he made sure that everyone within earshot knew what the woman said to her and repeatedly demanded an explanation on why she thought it was okay to do that. She didn’t respond. He repeatedly did this and followed her all the way to the car keeping her on full display.

I could not imagine myself doing that, but as I thought about it at the time I wondered if the experience would give her second thoughts about trying to make comments to someone else in the future. I could not make any determination on if I thought the response was appropriate or not. After all, all he was doing was shining a light on her behaviour.

Fast-forward to modern times, this same thing probably would have occurred with a cell phone recording what happened and amplifying the audience, strength of reaction, and possibly follow them around for a few years.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

With this being the USA, I could see this easily escalating to a situation with a gun and the person being able to use lethal force with the “I felt threatened” defense. So yes, this was very risky.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I’m someone who is supportive of LGBT rights generally, but I do recognize that, as @Anonkun alluded to, there are some people who essentially put gay people on a pedestal and make them somehow above criticism. A gay person is just as capable of being a jerk as a straight person, and should be subject to the same expectations as far as behavior.

I do wonder, though, if your experiences with gay people have mostly been high school and college students, whether you’ve really gotten a representative sample. 17 year olds are kind of obnoxious about things by nature, and it’s not surprising that they would build their identity around whatever makes them distinctive. That same kid at 35 may have settled down quite a bit.

For me personally, the gay people I’ve known have been like anyone else. Some are great, some aren’t. Just like any other large group.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

but I do recognize that, as @Anonkun alluded to,

I know of a person that, while I don’t know if he were trying to be a jerk, is someone that had a “license” to act in ways that would not otherwise be socially acceptable. He was gay, but I don’t think him being gay was the itself the reason for said license. He had a sister that had committed suicide, and he himself was known to be easily stressed. There is a possibility he had depression too. A combination of issues did raise concerns in how to deal with him and possible HR issues.

Now in all fairness, it is possible that the alleged depression may have been related to experiences from him being gay. This specific person was also a low productivity person. But he survived several rounds of layoffs. It wasn’t until the company decided to hire outsiders to make decisions on layoffs that he was affected. The outsider had no information on those concerns that others had, and laid him off I think for reasons of productivity alone.

He got laid off, and he was okay. The concerns may have been misplaced.

 

[RidgeSprinter]

Also when it becomes less trendy. LGBTQ+ is a hot topic now, but it’s likely to always be a small percentage of the population. Once it ceases to be a hot topic, it won’t be played up as much.

True, but I think that also relies also on those not playing up against it. Every action as an equal an opposite reaction.

 

[sallybutler]

Anyone who thinks cartoons were and/or are models to base one’s life on needs to re-think things.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit is not exactly a model for dressing modestly. Micky in Fantasia gets into all sorts of trouble as an apprentice wizard because he disobeys the wizard. (beautiful movie though). Talk about witchcraft. Donald Duck has a temper. Scrooge McDuck is a miser.

Those are just some Disney characters. I stopped letting my kids watch Saturday morning cartoons in 1985 when my oldest was 3. Smurfs did it for me. Of course, this may be partially because I was never a big fan of cartoons. Too much violence, lack of proper clothing (how many don’t wear pants ), bad moral characters (Tweety always teasing poor Sylvester and then tattling on him).

 

[Ridgerunner]

Mark 9:42. Jesus said

“And whosoever shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me; it were better for him that a millstone were hanged around his neck, and he were cast into the sea.”

 

[WingedHussar]

Apparently our fate is to be ruled by degenerate cry-bullies. Give me the Vikings and the Visigoths instead.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Micky in Fantasia gets into all sorts of trouble as an apprentice wizard because he disobeys the wizard. (beautiful movie though).

The version of Fantasia prior to the edits that occurred during the civil rights movement has some questionable imagery.

Mojo (youtube channel) did a video a couple of years ago on their “Top 10 LGBTQ+ cartoon characters.” I’m pretty sure that there are some that a few people will recognize. One of them (Kora, from one of the Airbender series) is currently being promoted on Netflix.

 

[GKMotley]

Patience. They are busy in Seattle and Portland right now.