Disney's World of W.I.T.C.H.

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In my opinion your fears about the occult are much ado about nothing in this context. If your children are well grounded in their faith and you talk to them about witchcraft and sorcery and other fantasies, they are going to see them for what they are (and are not). The bigger concern to me is what sort of messages these shows seem to portray when it comes to morality and personal conduct. Moral relativism is the rule on TV land and, sadly, the ends always seems to justify the means. Children need to be taught that there are absolute rights and wrongs, so they can learn to make right decisions in life, both with respect to religion and morals.

-Peace
 
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homeschoolhelen:
Why, you want to practice? Look up the names and do the homework.
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YOU made a claim, That the Spells in HP are Real and that the names in the book are the names of demons. Since you are making the positive assertion, You have the burden of proof. So Please show me some examples that what you claim is true, or withdraw your claim.

I have read the books, and the spells in the books are just latin or latin sounding words. Most of the names describe an aspect of the person.
 
It was among the many many things that I read. I can’t give you the concrete evidence you need. I do find that there is a lot of hostility with this discussion that I only wanted to make a couple of observations and then find that I am under attack. Or at least I feel attacked. Could it be that when the discussion is turned to what is right and wrong, black and white, you feel attacked?

Unfortunately I have had knowledge about the occult since I was about ten or eleven. I guess I have my own scare in my heart about it, so reading about Harry Potter being so popular etc. doesn’t surprise me, it sickens me. On that note, I don’t like or bring any of the borderline occult into my house of happiness. We practice our faith and don’t go into gray areas.

This is the last time I am writing on this subject, I don’t want to debate with such anger.
 
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homeschoolhelen:
It was among the many many things that I read. I can’t give you the concrete evidence you need. I do find that there is a lot of hostility with this discussion that I only wanted to make a couple of observations and then find that I am under attack. Or at least I feel attacked. Could it be that when the discussion is turned to what is right and wrong, black and white, you feel attacked?

Unfortunately I have had knowledge about the occult since I was about ten or eleven. I guess I have my own scare in my heart about it, so reading about Harry Potter being so popular etc. doesn’t surprise me, it sickens me. On that note, I don’t like or bring any of the borderline occult into my house of happiness. We practice our faith and don’t go into gray areas.

This is the last time I am writing on this subject, I don’t want to debate with such anger.
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If you have knowledge and proof that what you say is true than post it. You have made an accusation that J.K. Rowling has knowingly made the spells in her books the same as used in the Occult, You have also accused her of using the names of demons in her books. This is a SERIOUS accusation. If you are unwilling to post proof of your assertion than you should withdraw your claim. I am not angry, I just have seen this argument several times and no one has yet to show me proof when I ask for it. Have you read the Books? Checked to see if what you calim is acctualy true? Or, are you just restating what some one else told you?

Before I go, a quote:
It is an established maxim and moral that he who makes an assertion without knowing whether it is true or false is guilty of falsehood, and the accidental truth of the assertion does not justify or excuse him.
– Abraham Lincoln, chiding the editor of a Springfield, Illinois, newspaper, quoted from Antony Flew, How to Think Straight, p. 17
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Bill_A:
Theres cinderella the witch and sabrina the teenage witch, God knows how many witch shows Disney had. I read somewhere that Disney was a Mason. Walt Disney also has a Gay day every year at Walt Disney world and they give Gay spouses beinfits.
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Walt Disney does not have a gay day every year, he is dead. Disneyworld, Disneyland, and the various Disney production and consumers companies are not owned and operated by members of the Disney family, but by a conglomerate run by a board and CEO who have misused the Disney name and reputation shamefully.
 
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homeschoolhelen:
You want proof . . . here is the proof, take your time and read the first website all the way through. This is the best I can do. I hope this helps.

cana.userworld.com/cana_harrypotter.html
lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract7.html
spotlightministries.org.uk/hpquestions.htm
garnertedarmstrong.ws/harrypotter.htm
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Not one word about what spells in Harry Potter are the same as used in the Occult. Some talk about the same type of spells, but no where did I find where it said that the spell used in the Occult it the same as in HP. Your Claim:
Did you know that the spells in Harry Potter are real occult spells?
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Also Not one word about Demon names in Harry Potter. Your Claim:
I think I made a mistake, the spells in Harry Potter aren’t the problem, it is the names of the demons. Sorry.
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If this is all of the evidence for your claim about HP, Then you should withdraw the claim, as you have shown no evidence.
 
jjmO8, Your daughter may read these books and not be harmed, but why take the chance? In taking a stand against these and other books/movies that portray occult practices as harmless you are sending a clear message that witchcraft is wrong. Blessedbe13 says that her Mum is a strict Catholic who allows her younger siblings to read Harry Potter, this is from a 19 year old who is into witchcraft, what more proof do you need that these types of books desensitize young minds to the evils of the occult?
 
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BlessedBe13:
Witchcraft utilizes the natural energies around us. It is scientifically proven that everything is made up of energy. God supposedly created everything in nature, so it is using energies coming from God.
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Good description, BlessedBe13.
This is pretty much why Christians are instructed to avoid the practice of witchcraft, sorcery, casting spells, divination, etc.
The practitioner attempts to exercise powers which rightfully belong to God alone.
He hasn’t granted his creatures authority to use these powers, nor has He instructed us in their use.

There was one who defied God in the beginning, asserting that he would “be like unto the Most High.” He promised our first parents that they, too, if they did as he instructed, would become just like God.

The allure of “power” in many forms is a weakness to us humans.
God provides us with all we need.
If we needed Godly powers, He would grant them.
Since He does not, we accept all the good gifts He gives, we accept the sufferings which He permits, and we avoid attempting to exercise powers which He has not granted permission to use.

As for the Disney stuff, I’m more offended by the seduction and sensuality in their movies marketed to children than the magic.

Bottom line: there are much better things young people can be doing to nourish their minds and souls than indulging in this … garbage.

Pax Christi. <><
 
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Monarchy:
If this is all of the evidence for your claim about HP, Then you should withdraw the claim, as you have shown no evidence.
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I am wondering, what is your point to all of this? I did produce proof and you refuse to see it. The discussion started out talking about the W.I.T.C.H. and turned into proving Harry Potter is with the occult. Why are you so bent on being right about this? I am just curious.

A quote from cana.userworld.com/cana_harrypotter.html

There are elements of fantasy and good story-telling in this book. At the same time, the whole story in set in an occult context, and with references to real occult practices and views mixed in with fantasy. The hero of the book is a wizard/witch/sorcerer whose goal is to learn how to use his powers through the occult. Much is made of the fact that the author wrote while on welfare on scraps of paper at a cafe. This makes it sound like everything is totally from her imagination; however, she did not imagine alchemy, charms, scrying, Nicolas Flamel, astrology, the Dark Side, or many other occult concepts and information. It is only reasonable to assume that Rowling did some research or has had some exposure to occult and magical practices.

The idea of using sorcery to fight evil, or using “good” magic to fight “bad” magic, is a major component of the plot. In 1996, a movie called The Craft taught the audience that using witchcraft to fight evil is good. This movie helped to galvanize the growing Wicca/witchcraft movement and attracted a lot of teen girls to Wicca (Llewellyn’s New Worlds of Mind and Spirit, Sept/Oct. 1996, p. 6: “Whether you loved it or hated it, The Craft created a surge of interest in magick, the occult, and Witchcraft”). Ask any Wiccan how to defend the practice of witchcraft, and many will respond that it is okay to use one’s powers “for good.” How does this message differ from the Harry Potter books? Harry Potter, far from teaching against the occult, gives a rousing cheer for it. Those opposed to witchcraft or wizardry are mocked and painted as stupid.

We are not in world where witches are crones with black robes and pointed hats or where wizards and sorcerers exist only in Disney movies. We are in a world where ordinary people seriously practice witchcraft, sorcery, spells, and other occult methods. Many witches, psychics, Neo-pagans and others involved in the occult were my clients when I practiced astrology. A June 14, 1999 article of “Publishers’ Weekly Online,” discusses how popular pagan books have become among younger readers. At that point, Teen Witch had sold more than 50,000 copies. Llewellyn’s director of trade sales stated that his company (which publishes occult titles) started “repackaging ‘classic’ pagan titles with more youthful covers, and sales often jumped tenfold as a result,” (Michael Kress, “Bewitching Readers With Pagan Lore, <www.bookwire.com/pw/images2/relig2.jpg>). One of the books discussed is a book on “white witchcraft.” Essential to this philosophy is to not go over to the “dark side” and practice “dark” or “black” witchcraft, exactly what is taught in Harry Potter.

There is a difference between fantasy and the occult. Fantasy can be used in a way that totally leaves out references to the occult. But this is not what happens in this book; instead, fantasy feeds on the occult and is fueled by it. Yes, this is just a story, but stories can teach and influence. Stories can present ideas and endorse worldviews. Does this book desensitize children to the occult? What happens when they get older and encounter peers who practice magick, cast spells, and attempt spirit contact? These practices are becoming more popular, and are already widespread among adolescents.

Harry Potter glorifies the occult. God condemns the occult. Should we take a book lightly that endorses what God has so seriously forbidden?

If your children are already reading these books, then use the books as a tool to teach them from God’s word what He says about the occult. Teach them how to share this information gently and lovingly with their friends. It is essential they be equipped to deal with the increasing acceptance of occultism in our culture.
 
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Monarchy:
Not one word about what spells in Harry Potter are the same as used in the Occult. Some talk about the same type of spells, but no where did I find where it said that the spell used in the Occult it the same as in HP. Your Claim:

Also Not one word about Demon names in Harry Potter. Your Claim:

If this is all of the evidence for your claim about HP, Then you should withdraw the claim, as you have shown no evidence.
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I went to church this morning and prayed for you. I looked at all the other subjects you wrote on and realized you don’t/won’t believe in God? Are you here trying to have someone prove heaven and hell? Are you searching or do you think you have all the answers? May God bless and guide you in your search.
 
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Bill_A:
Theres cinderella the witch and sabrina the teenage witch, God knows how many witch shows Disney had. I read somewhere that Disney was a Mason. Walt Disney also has a Gay day every year at Walt Disney world and they give Gay spouses beinfits.
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When I found this thread, and saw “Disney” & “Witch”, I had to chuckle and wonder how many posts I would have to scroll through to find a Masonic “connection” ( only** 9** ) ,* and the possibility that innocent babies are bar-b-qued on the 4th of July*.

Walt Disney was NOT a Mason. For an interesting list of those who AREN’T Masons ( but sometimes thought to be ) please see:

www.masonicinfo.com/famousnon.htm

As for the Gay Day thing, I HAVE read that it goes on, and I’m glad that gay employees receive benefits for their partners - aren’t you ?

What a boring world this would be ( including the Wonderful World of Disney ) withOUT gay folk !

Think about it. ( Well, I DID have to think TWICE about Richard Simmons…) :bounce:
 
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homeschoolhelen:
I am wondering, what is your point to all of this? I did produce proof and you refuse to see it. The discussion started out talking about the W.I.T.C.H. and turned into proving Harry Potter is with the occult. Why are you so bent on being right about this? I am just curious.
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No you didn’t. You stated the the spells (not the pracitices) in HP were real. You have produced nothing to prove that. Here is a list of five of the spells in HP. Please show me where they are used in HP (BTW I am trying to make this easy for you, I don’t have to do this):

Wingardium Leviosa
Lumos
Expecto Patronum
Expelliarmus
Accio

You also have claimed that the names in HP are the names of Demons. You haven’t even tried to prove that. Here are five names from HP. Please tell me what demon they are named after. If they aren’t, Please list the names that are.

Albus Dumbledore
Sirius Black
Remus Lupin
Rita Skeeter
Voldemort

When you make a positive claim about something (this is so) you have the burden of proof, not the person challenging you.

IOW, if I claim that you owe me $10,000,000, it is up to me to prove that. Otherwise I could have your wages garnered, or put a lein against your house with no proof at all.
 
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Monarchy:
No you didn’t. You stated the the spells (not the pracitices) in HP were real. You have produced nothing to prove that. Here is a list of five of the spells in HP. Please show me where they are used in HP (BTW I am trying to make this easy for you, I don’t have to do this):

Wingardium Leviosa
Lumos
Expecto Patronum
Expelliarmus
Accio

You also have claimed that the names in HP are the names of Demons. You haven’t even tried to prove that. Here are five names from HP. Please tell me what demon they are named after. If they aren’t, Please list the names that are.

Albus Dumbledore
Sirius Black
Remus Lupin
Rita Skeeter
Voldemort

When you make a positive claim about something (this is so) you have the burden of proof, not the person challenging you.

IOW, if I claim that you owe me $10,000,000, it is up to me to prove that. Otherwise I could have your wages garnered, or put a lein against your house with no proof at all.
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You are reaching for something, I’m not sure what. But you won’t find it through Harry Potter. Read “Home Sweet Rome” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. You are wasting your time and mine by trying to prove Harry Potter is not with the occult. There is a huge amount of proof out there. Spells, witches etc.

May God guide you to his son,
 
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homeschoolhelen:
You are reaching for something, I’m not sure what.
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Do get you to prove your claim.
But you won’t find it through Harry Potter. Read “Home Sweet Rome” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. You are wasting your time and mine by trying to prove Harry Potter is not with the occult.
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I am not trying to do so, You made SPECIFIC claims, and I am attempting to get you to show me the specific facts supporting such. I even helped you by listing some spells and names (since I feel I would be safe in betting you haven’t acctually read the books) and you still have not shown any evidence for the specific claims you made. This is akin to me saying that you are an atheist, and then showing as my proof the fact that you post to www.infidels.org (many christians post there BTW). You make a specific claim but then give General proof. Doesn’t work that way. Until you can prove that the specfic claims you made are true. I have right to think of you as a liar, or a person who doesn’t know what she is talking about.
There is a huge amount of proof out there. Spells, witches etc.

May God guide you to his son,
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homeschoolhelen:
You are reaching for something, I’m not sure what.
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Do get you to prove your claim.
But you won’t find it through Harry Potter. Read “Home Sweet Rome” by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. You are wasting your time and mine by trying to prove Harry Potter is not with the occult.
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I am not trying to do so, You made SPECIFIC claims, and I am attempting to get you to show me the specific facts supporting such. I even helped you by listing some spells and names (since I feel I would be safe in betting you haven’t acctually read the books) and you still have not shown any evidence for the specific claims you made. This is akin to me saying that you are an atheist, and then showing as my proof the fact that you post to www.infidels.org (many christians post there BTW). You make a specific claim but then give General proof. Doesn’t work that way. Until you can prove that the specfic claims you made are true. I have right to think of you as a liar, or a person who doesn’t know what she is talking about.
There is a huge amount of proof out there. Spells, witches etc.

May God guide you to his son,
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Then please show the information that proves your specific claim.
 
Has anyone thought about other films/books with are basically using witchcraft, only without naming it so?

I mean, okay, it may be silly, but the definition of witchcraft given somewhere above as about using the energy located in everything… Now, I think the Start Wars series describe the Force as this.

Would you forbid your children from watching Star Wars? It has people with god-like powers, does it not?
 
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UKStudent:
Has anyone thought about other films/books with are basically using witchcraft, only without naming it so?

I mean, okay, it may be silly, but the definition of witchcraft given somewhere above as about using the energy located in everything… Now, I think the Start Wars series describe the Force as this.

Would you forbid your children from watching Star Wars? It has people with god-like powers, does it not?
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In nomine Jesu I offer you all peace,

Sorry guys, but I have to draw the line with Star Wars. That was my Childhood mythology which introduced to me that there is something else to seek besides material goods.

Peace.
 
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genevieve.oz:
Blessedbe13 says that her Mum is a strict Catholic who allows her younger siblings to read Harry Potter, this is from a 19 year old who is into witchcraft, what more proof do you need that these types of books desensitize young minds to the evils of the occult?
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What does this have to do with anything? I do not speak to my family. If I told my mother I was involved in witchcraft she would tell me I was going to hell. Last time I spoke to them, neither my brother nor sister had any interest in the occult or in any religion other than Catholicism.
 
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