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Sandi
Guest
It’s not what you say–it’s the way you say it.
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Sixtus
Guest
There is a lot of hype about how Christians have been treated [or mis-treated] by Islam. I am not denying the misery that can be caused. But it is not only our solemn duty commanded by Christ that we ‘love one another’ Jn15:17 but also a forum rule.
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters
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cestusdei
Guest
And who do the Christians being persecuted in muslim lands complain to? Love doesn’t mean we ignore the murder of our fellow Christians.
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Kevin42
Guest
I completly agree with this.There is a lot of hype about how Christians have been treated [or mis-treated] by Islam. I am not denying the misery that can be caused. But it is not only our solemn duty commanded by Christ that we ‘love one another’ Jn15:17 but also a forum rule.
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters
I think were playing at a self-defeating game. When we say “I’ll respect Muslims when they respect me.” They can turn around and say the same thing. Furthermore, how do you plan to bring them to Christ if you show them no love? It’s obvious to anyone who has tried to evangelize that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
“Love one another as I have loved you.” The beatitudes.
We were unworthy of Christ’s love, but he gave it, and he expected us to return it to the least of His people. There was no asterisk when he said it, just a plain commandment. No one is saying that we have to believe Muslims or Islamic belief is right, but I think we must love and respect them. Jesus loves murders, adulterers, cheaters…I think we can love and respect Muslims.
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se_goat
Guest
No offense, but it is quite hard to respect a religion that says its more sinful to eat a ham sandwhich than is to divorce your wife!
Also, Hadith = Comedic gold
Example:
Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 450:
Narrated Salim’s father:
Once Gabriel promised the Prophet (that he would visit him, but Gabriel did not come) and later on he said, “We, angels, do not enter a house which contains a picture or a dog.”
Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 331:
Narrated Al-Bara’ bin 'Azib:
Allah’s Apostle ordered us to do seven things and forbade us to do other seven. He ordered us: to follow the funeral procession. to visit the sick, to accept invitations, to help the oppressed, to fulfill the oaths, to return the greeting and to reply to the sneezer: (saying, “May Allah be merciful on you,” provided the sneezer says, “All the praises are for Allah,”). He forbade us to use silver utensils and dishes and to wear golden rings, silk (clothes), Dibaj (pure silk cloth), Qissi and Istabraq (two kinds of silk cloths).
Sahih Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and comment on verse 68:42
“On the day of Judgment, God will open His leg and show His thigh to the Prophet.”
Bukhari is considered one of the most accurate sources, as well.
My respect for Islam lies somewhere on a scale between Danish cartoonists and Byzantine emperors. It is a foolish religion, perpetuated by fear.
Also, Hadith = Comedic gold
Example:
Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 450:
Narrated Salim’s father:
Once Gabriel promised the Prophet (that he would visit him, but Gabriel did not come) and later on he said, “We, angels, do not enter a house which contains a picture or a dog.”
Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 331:
Narrated Al-Bara’ bin 'Azib:
Allah’s Apostle ordered us to do seven things and forbade us to do other seven. He ordered us: to follow the funeral procession. to visit the sick, to accept invitations, to help the oppressed, to fulfill the oaths, to return the greeting and to reply to the sneezer: (saying, “May Allah be merciful on you,” provided the sneezer says, “All the praises are for Allah,”). He forbade us to use silver utensils and dishes and to wear golden rings, silk (clothes), Dibaj (pure silk cloth), Qissi and Istabraq (two kinds of silk cloths).
Sahih Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and comment on verse 68:42
“On the day of Judgment, God will open His leg and show His thigh to the Prophet.”
Bukhari is considered one of the most accurate sources, as well.
My respect for Islam lies somewhere on a scale between Danish cartoonists and Byzantine emperors. It is a foolish religion, perpetuated by fear.
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Dirk_Skene
Guest
Dang se_goat, you’re gooood!
The angels & dogs thing of course just shows their stupidity. That is totaly rediculas. The opening the thigh quote reeks of homosexuallity.I like your observations.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
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Sixtus
Guest
Amidst the insults and offence I reiterate what I have said above:
It is our solemn duty commanded by Christ that we ‘love one another’ Jn15:17. Respect for those of other faiths and no faith is also a forum rule.
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters.
I also fully endorse and offer my weight to the comment by Kevin 42
It is our solemn duty commanded by Christ that we ‘love one another’ Jn15:17. Respect for those of other faiths and no faith is also a forum rule.
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters.
I also fully endorse and offer my weight to the comment by Kevin 42
C
cestusdei
Guest
Tonight I watched a special on the history of the muslim brotherhood. Do you know what the moment of epiphany was for the founder? When he came to the US and saw couples dancing together cheek to cheek. He was horrified and upon his return founded this proto-terrorist group. This group was the one that got Osama started on his jihad. You want to know why they hate us and why 911 happened?
Because of a dance.
Don’t talk about respect when dealing with psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. If muslims want respect then they need to start reforming and working with us in fighting these terrorists. They can start by affirming full freedom of religion and equality for Christians.
Because of a dance.
Don’t talk about respect when dealing with psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. If muslims want respect then they need to start reforming and working with us in fighting these terrorists. They can start by affirming full freedom of religion and equality for Christians.
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Dirk_Skene
Guest
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onmywayagain
Guest
All this talk about respecting Muslims made me think back to a land that was once known for it’s strong Chiritian Faith, Phoenicia.
Phoenicia was a country that sat on the east coast of the Mediterranian and had beautiful mountains and beaches. It was a very Christian country that was in the middle east. Can you imagine a Christian Country in the Middle East today. This very same country that was influenced by America and the western society is know known to us as Lebanon.
In 1975, yes 1975, Lebanon was a Christian Faith based country. That is until Muslims from other parts of the middle east started to come over. Yes Lebanon, once had open boarders to the outside world and look how it turned out.
Islmaic radicals took up arms and overthrew the very gov. that welcomed them into the country. If we continue to let Islam and/or Muslims to do as they wish then guess what we will lose our Christianity just like the people of Phoenicia did.
Just a little history lesson on the religion and the peole of Islam who we should respcet, but have no respect for Christianity. Truth be told, all of Islam wants, i hope I spell it right, Halifa. Islamic rule all over the world.
One more thing to remember. Islamists are not just waging war on Jews and Christianity, but Hindus, Buddists and all other people who they label as “Infidels.”
Do you think I should still respect Islam, when Islam respects no one else?
Phoenicia was a country that sat on the east coast of the Mediterranian and had beautiful mountains and beaches. It was a very Christian country that was in the middle east. Can you imagine a Christian Country in the Middle East today. This very same country that was influenced by America and the western society is know known to us as Lebanon.
In 1975, yes 1975, Lebanon was a Christian Faith based country. That is until Muslims from other parts of the middle east started to come over. Yes Lebanon, once had open boarders to the outside world and look how it turned out.
Islmaic radicals took up arms and overthrew the very gov. that welcomed them into the country. If we continue to let Islam and/or Muslims to do as they wish then guess what we will lose our Christianity just like the people of Phoenicia did.
Just a little history lesson on the religion and the peole of Islam who we should respcet, but have no respect for Christianity. Truth be told, all of Islam wants, i hope I spell it right, Halifa. Islamic rule all over the world.
One more thing to remember. Islamists are not just waging war on Jews and Christianity, but Hindus, Buddists and all other people who they label as “Infidels.”
Do you think I should still respect Islam, when Islam respects no one else?
B
birdsong
Guest
Well well, in these days of ferocious and institutional “political correctness”, it’s seems that it is extremely difficult (if not impossible) for some people NOT to feel offended and hence demand special treatments or considerations …… muslims are a prime example of what I am talking about …… for instance, they claim to respect and have in very high esteem all the prophets from god, however, it is only when a few innocuous and harmless cartoons about their so-called prophet are published that they make public manifestations and shout from the rooftop “islamphobia”, “racism”, “death to democracy”, “slay those who offend the prophet”, etc, etc …. Nevertheless, when more denigrating things are said, displayed and published about Jesus and Mary His mother, for example, these same alleged “defenders of prophets” are nowhere to be seen or heard ……. And before my words are taken out of context, I am not saying that muslims (or anyone else) should also embark on stupid manifestations and killing of people every time Jesus/Mary are ridiculed in public …… the example I gave here is just to underline the insincerity and double-standards of muslims ……
Now Sixtus, all I have seen here from your muslim sisters and brothers in this forum is an immense and extraordinary capacity to feel offended whenever anyone dares to counter (with examples and details taken from their own muslim literature, no less!!) their propaganda and fruitless attempts at convincing us that their so-called prophet and message were from god …… the following is a very condensed version of the dynamics of these exchanges:
muslim: muhhamad and Koran are from allah, who is the same god of the bible, so you should also accept him as your true prophet ……
Christian responds: I can’t believe you, and that is in no small part because your alleged prophet did some very objectionable things (slept with a 9 year-old girl, ordered the murder of his enemies for minimal reasons, had people tortured to make them confess, raided caravans of unarmed people, etc, etc) that some entity called “allah” (clearly NOT the biblical god) condoned and even encouraged ……
muslim replies: you are offending my prophet!!! … you are offending me !!! … you are offending my religion!!! ……
so, Sixtus, is that the type of “disrespect” and insults” that you are encouraging your muslims bros and sis to report to the admins?
Now Sixtus, all I have seen here from your muslim sisters and brothers in this forum is an immense and extraordinary capacity to feel offended whenever anyone dares to counter (with examples and details taken from their own muslim literature, no less!!) their propaganda and fruitless attempts at convincing us that their so-called prophet and message were from god …… the following is a very condensed version of the dynamics of these exchanges:
muslim: muhhamad and Koran are from allah, who is the same god of the bible, so you should also accept him as your true prophet ……
Christian responds: I can’t believe you, and that is in no small part because your alleged prophet did some very objectionable things (slept with a 9 year-old girl, ordered the murder of his enemies for minimal reasons, had people tortured to make them confess, raided caravans of unarmed people, etc, etc) that some entity called “allah” (clearly NOT the biblical god) condoned and even encouraged ……
muslim replies: you are offending my prophet!!! … you are offending me !!! … you are offending my religion!!! ……
so, Sixtus, is that the type of “disrespect” and insults” that you are encouraging your muslims bros and sis to report to the admins?
Amidst the insults and offence I reiterate what I have said above:
It is our solemn duty commanded by Christ that we ‘love one another’ Jn15:17. Respect for those of other faiths and no faith is also a forum rule.
I would suggest that if a Moslem feel they have been insulted, it is your right to complain to the forum moderators.
I for my part as a Catholic offer my solidarity and respect to my Moslem brothers and sisters.
I also fully endorse and offer my weight to the comment by Kevin 42
V
Valke2
Guest
really? didn’t Abraham have his servant place his hand under his thigh? It was, I believe, an ancient ritual associated with making an oath/pledge.Dang se_goat, you’re gooood!
I like your observations.
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heathernoel
Guest
I think this thread shows me part of the battle going on within the Church. I am new to the Church, and I usually don’t notice things quite so quickly. 
It’s odd that we are being reminded that Jesus wanted us to love all. But I don’t think Jesus would have defined love as condoning acts of violence and terrorism. He wouldn’t be pleased with forced conversions to a False prophet.
He wouldn’t be pleased with how women are treated in that ‘religion’.
No…my Jesus wouldn’t blindly respect a religion that is NOT deserving of it. THe people…yes. I truly pray for the conversion of all Muslims, especially those forced into it.
Like I tell my children…I will always love you. But, I reserve the right to not like the things you do.
It’s odd that we are being reminded that Jesus wanted us to love all. But I don’t think Jesus would have defined love as condoning acts of violence and terrorism. He wouldn’t be pleased with forced conversions to a False prophet.
He wouldn’t be pleased with how women are treated in that ‘religion’.
No…my Jesus wouldn’t blindly respect a religion that is NOT deserving of it. THe people…yes. I truly pray for the conversion of all Muslims, especially those forced into it.
Like I tell my children…I will always love you. But, I reserve the right to not like the things you do.
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Sixtus
Guest
I cannot imagine the horror and sum of all the suffering endured accross the world but most by my American brothers and sisters in the horror and evils manifested on this great nation in 9/11.
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray you must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated you so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray you must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated you so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
S
Sixtus
Guest
I cannot imagine the horror and sum of all the suffering endured accross the world but most by my American brothers and sisters in the horror and evils visited on this great nation in 9/11.
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray we must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
Love means to respect, to wish well, to render assistance to a fellow in need, to pray for and above all to forgive.
That does not mean that we are not allowed to say how hurt we are. That is natural justice to be able to express our feelings but not in a derogatory or attacking way which lacks respect for human dignity
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated you so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray we must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
Love means to respect, to wish well, to render assistance to a fellow in need, to pray for and above all to forgive.
That does not mean that we are not allowed to say how hurt we are. That is natural justice to be able to express our feelings but not in a derogatory or attacking way which lacks respect for human dignity
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated you so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
S
Sixtus
Guest
I cannot imagine the horror and sum of all the suffering endured accross the world but most by my American brothers and sisters in the horror and evils visited on this great nation in 9/11.
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray we must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
Love means to respect, to wish well, to render assistance to a fellow in need, to pray for and above all to forgive.
That does not mean that we are not allowed to say how hurt we are. That is natural justice to be able to express our feelings but not in a derogatory or attacking way which lacks respect for human dignity
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated me so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
But, in respect of the Saviour’s command as difficult as it is [and no doubt prayers through gritted teeth may be necessary, but pray we must] for the Lord said: 'This is my commandement to love one another Jn 15: 17.
Love means to respect, to wish well, to render assistance to a fellow in need, to pray for and above all to forgive.
That does not mean that we are not allowed to say how hurt we are. That is natural justice to be able to express our feelings but not in a derogatory or attacking way which lacks respect for human dignity
The text goes on: ‘as the world hated me so it will hate you, the servant is not greater than the Master’ Jn 15:20.
Further down it says: ‘they will kill you in the name of religious duty’ Jn 16:3.
We know these things will happen but the Lord does not say that we must love everyone except for psychotic mass murderers who are motivated by hatred. The Lord does not say that. No, He simply commands us to love.
I know my friend that is very difficult and sometimes it appears impossible but with and through the Power of the Advocate [Jn 15:26] all is possible not only for their sake but for our healing too!
R
Rodrigo_Bivar
Guest
To the Christians,
I thought John 15 was Jesus talking to his disciples? If that is so, then 15;17 means a Christian loving another Christian. It has nothing to do with a Christian loving anyone else.
The non-disciples (i.e. non-Christians) are referred to as THEY in John 15.
Rodrigo
I thought John 15 was Jesus talking to his disciples? If that is so, then 15;17 means a Christian loving another Christian. It has nothing to do with a Christian loving anyone else.
The non-disciples (i.e. non-Christians) are referred to as THEY in John 15.
Rodrigo
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Dirk_Skene
Guest
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Sixtus
Guest
In Mark 11:25 He says: ‘If you have a grievance against anyone forgive them’. He did not say ‘against any believer’ no He did not say that, He said ‘anyone’!
The Disciples of Jesus were the early Church Fathers. They became our teachers. They passed onto us what they learned from the Lord. They likewise also passed onto their successors
Our Lord and Master says that if we belonged to this world it would love us but as it is, we do not so it hates us. Jn 15:18-19 but He bids us to love one another. He does not tell us ‘this is his advice to us’ nor that He ‘would like us to try to do this’ but ‘this is my commandment to you’. It cannot be plainer than that.
The most salutarly quote of the Lord for me is that we must ‘pass no judgement for the measure we give to others is the measure we shall receive’ and 'for as you judge others so yourselves will be judged Mt 7:1-2
God bless
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