Dissent will not renew the Church, Pope says at Chrism Mass
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rsantos
Guest
Certainly we don’t want chaos and this is perhaps what the pope is thinking in speaking out about calls for disobedience. But God sometimes chooses dissenters to wake us up. We do have 50,000 churches without a priest and no end in sight to a severe world-wide priest shortage. Imagine being a faithful Catholic whose church has closed for lack of priests and who is frantic and lost- no longer able to be with their faith community, with no access to Eucharist. Many seniors cannot make the journey to another church. Imagine living in an inner city area that has had its church shuttered and needing to talk to a priest about an ill relative, an abusive spouse, a drug-abusing teen. Who will help them? Could now be the time to invite on a case by case basis priests who have left to marry to help with ministry?
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Fiasco
Guest
The trouble is, the priest shortage is worst where the dissent is worst. One breeds the other.
The shortage is worst in the corrupt and decadent West.The blatant dissent has one good effect: it strengthens the resolve of those who are striving to defend the Faith.
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opus101
Guest
Fiasco, that is so true. There are more seminarians where there is more adherence to the magisterium, and the only religious orders that are growing are the ones that are more traditional.
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opus101
Guest
I agree that God sometimes uses dissenters to wake us up, but disagree with your conclusion. IMO, they point out the fact that many are ignorant of the true faith and have had deplorable catechesis. The dissenters awaken us to a more vigilant guarding of the faith, and a more zealous evangelization.
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rsantos
Guest
I love the church and had excellent catechesis- 8 years of Catholic schooling and an MDiv. I’ve taken many graduate courses in Roman Catholicism including one in canon law and am a life-long practicing Catholic. So it hurts me very deeply to see the church in the condition it is presently. Ironically the persons we label “dissenters” are often the ones who are most faithful and learned in Catholicism. People who do not dissent, often do not care or are ignorant of the faith. Currently, we are in violation of canon 1752 which states that salvation of souls is the highest law of the church. We are allowing churches, Catholic schools, food pantries, and social services to close due to a severe shortage of priests. Jesus never said only celibate men can confer sacraments but Jesus did say love your neighbor, love God, and spread God’s word. If we were being true to our faith, we would invoke canon 1335 which allows the use of married/ irregular priests in the conditions we have now-a severe world-wide priest shortage. If we really believe Eucharist is Christ’s Real Presence, we will set aside man-made celibacy mandates to ensure we have enough priests to provide access to Eucharist and work towards salvation of souls-divine laws. We will put divine law above man-made laws not the other way around and we will show the world we believe in Christ’s Presence in Eucharist by showing it is more important than our enchantment with celibacy.
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Pat_the_elder
Guest
Whilst I agree with your main thrust that celibacy is a man-made rule and could be overturned, I’m not sure that allowing priests to marry or taking on ex-priests who are married would solve anything. Non Catholic denominations worldwide are seeing the same problem - there aren’t enough people who feel they have the calling to the ministry.
I sometimes feel hypocritical even talking about this - we all look to someone else to fill the gap. An old priest, sadly now retired and a wee bit wandered, gave an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. His finall summing up was that it was only God that could solve this problem and if we just prayed hard enough the solution would become obvious.
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St_Francis
Guest
Priests cannot marry–married men can be ordained.
ETA: the main point of the dissenters seems to be the ordination of women, and since that really is dissent, since married men *can *be ordained, I think that the issue of women’s ordination is the dissent.
ETA: the main point of the dissenters seems to be the ordination of women, and since that really is dissent, since married men *can *be ordained, I think that the issue of women’s ordination is the dissent.
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Brendan
Guest
The disciplinary rule is against ordinating men who are already married into the priesthood.
That is diffrent that allowing men who are currently priests to enter into marriage.
The first is theologically permissible and simply a disciplinary rule, the second is not.
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M-Dent
Guest
Is this a line from a Monty Python film?
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OriginalJS
Guest
This distinction is difficult for the ordinary person to understand.I used to go to a church that lost a good priest who got married; that priest was replaced by a married protestant pastor with children who converted and was ordained a priest. Both were, and as far as I know, are good men.
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rsantos
Guest
Research shows a severe priest shortage in Roman Catholic church and no shortage in non-Catholic churches. See
americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=3311
Catholic priests marry all the time, whether we like it or not.
The question is not are they still priests-theologically and canonically, they are- ordination is permanent.
The controversy is kicking out priests who marry and i say this is morally and theologically wrong given the severe shortage of priests.
We have thousands of priests who married who would fill the voids if we allowed them so i am saying it would ease the priest shortage to allow married priests to minister. That’s all.
Canon 1335 allows for ministry of priests who married after ordination when there is just cause. Please look up this law yourself if you want proof. Thank you and God bless.
americamagazine.org/content/article.cfm?article_id=3311
Catholic priests marry all the time, whether we like it or not.
The question is not are they still priests-theologically and canonically, they are- ordination is permanent.
The controversy is kicking out priests who marry and i say this is morally and theologically wrong given the severe shortage of priests.
We have thousands of priests who married who would fill the voids if we allowed them so i am saying it would ease the priest shortage to allow married priests to minister. That’s all.
Canon 1335 allows for ministry of priests who married after ordination when there is just cause. Please look up this law yourself if you want proof. Thank you and God bless.
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curlycool89
Guest
I would rather have less priests who are faithful to their calling them more priests who seem to only care about what’s best for them. Selfishness has no place in the priesthood.
As a priest you are called to give up your life for Jesus Christ. If you can’t commit to doing that, then don’t become a priest or get your priorities in order before entering the seminary.
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