Dissenters: Why do you call yourself a Catholic?

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Joe_5859 said:
Of course, that statistic only applies to those Catholics that are alive today. If you factor in the number of Catholics that did not use artificial birth control throughout history, you’d probably get a different number.
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Hell will be full of Catholics who came into sexual maturity in the 1960s and 1970s! Probably OK for previous centuries, unless other sins than contraception can get you there.
 
“Your attempts at sarcasm are duly noted. I shall refrain, and remind you that my opinions do not well up on their own, but are the result of examination of many and several well known biblical exegetes whose professional career is spent studying these issues. I am persuaded by the evidence that such analysis is correct. You may of course follow the CCC. I’ll refrain from the eye rolling as well. Have a good one”
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SpiritMeadow said:
You misunderstand. I have no desire to convince you of anything. I was simply stating my opinion and where it came from. You may do your own research if you so desire. I have no need or desire to revisit old research. I might suggest you start with Anchor books on the individual books of the NT. Especially i would look at those passages referring to “and on this rock I will build my church.” If you go to Anchors web page you can discover the particular author and book associated with the particular NT book. I’m not sure without looking which one this particular reference comes from other than that it is from the Gospels certainly. You might also try Mier who did a 3 book study of Jesus.
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Again, the page number(s) and book, etc, etc, is what people were asking for, not ‘try this book and search for the general subject’. If you know it you know it, if you dont, then please say so. And if you dont care to persuade others, then why bother saying anything in the first place?

Your attitude is incredibly condescending: “I have no need or desire to revisit old research.” “You may look it up yourself.” This seems to be the general trend in your posts on other threads as well and for me personally it is a thread killer. There are plenty of other people that have degrees above the bachelor level who post on these boards yet they refrain from wearing it on their sleeve.

If you were to have a little more respect for others you will find many people(including myself) will reciprocate even if they strongly disagree with your opinion.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
Your attempts at sarcasm are duly noted. I shall refrain, and remind you that my opinions do not well up on their own, but are the result of examination of many and several well known biblical exegetes whose professional career is spent studying these issues. I am persuaded by the evidence that such analysis is correct. You may of course follow the CCC. I’ll refrain from the eye rolling as well. Have a good one.
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So I guess that makes you Baptist or Protestant?

Yes, I’ll follow the CCC…because I’m Catholic!😃
 
MarcellusW said:
Again, the page number(s) and book, etc, etc, is what people were asking for, not ‘try this book and search for the general subject’. If you know it you know it, if you dont, then please say so. And if you dont care to persuade others, then why bother saying anything in the first place?

Your attitude is incredibly condescending: “I have no need or desire to revisit old research.” “You may look it up yourself.” This seems to be the general trend in your posts on other threads as well and for me personally it is a thread killer. There are plenty of other people that have degrees above the bachelor level who post on these boards yet they refrain from wearing it on their sleeve.

If you were to have a little more respect for others you will find many people(including myself) will reciprocate even if they strongly disagree with your opinion.
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Uber ditto!!!😃

I know I’m just a dumb poster barely out of HS, but please Spiritmeadow, at least cite your sources! Unless of course these are personal revelations?:confused:
 
SpiritMeadow said:
You misunderstand. I have no desire to convince you of anything. I was simply stating my opinion and where it came from. You may do your own research if you so desire. I have no need or desire to revisit old research. I might suggest you start with Anchor books on the individual books of the NT. Especially i would look at those passages referring to “and on this rock I will build my church.” If you go to Anchors web page you can discover the particular author and book associated with the particular NT book. I’m not sure without looking which one this particular reference comes from other than that it is from the Gospels certainly. You might also try Mier who did a 3 book study of Jesus.
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So, the authority for you is someone other than Christ’s vicar on earth?
 
SpiritMeadow said:
You misunderstand. I have no desire to convince you of anything. I was simply stating my opinion and where it came from. You may do your own research if you so desire. I have no need or desire to revisit old research. I might suggest you start with Anchor books on the individual books of the NT. Especially i would look at those passages referring to “and on this rock I will build my church.” If you go to Anchors web page you can discover the particular author and book associated with the particular NT book. I’m not sure without looking which one this particular reference comes from other than that it is from the Gospels certainly. You might also try Mier who did a 3 book study of Jesus.
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If Christ did not say that, knowing as history shows us the fallen nature of man and his willingness to promote disordered ideas, how could Christ justifiably claim to be a Good Shepherd if He did not leave a visible and authoritative Church before He ascended to the Father? The Holy Spirit could convict men to the point of overriding their free will, but plainly God did not choose to do that. He chose, based on 2000 years of consistent teaching, to leave a Church with an appointed head.

Does it really matter when and how the words were added to the Bible? The Church assembled the Bible. It has been through Tradition held to be divinely inspired. Even if the words were added much, much later, does that mean Jesus did not say them? Why?

If you do not believe the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and the Bible therefore is divinely inspired as proclaimed by the Church, is your assent to Church teachings wholly intellectual?

I’m not trying to be snarky. I am curious. I have run into the argument of disbelief due to biblical scholarship and dismissed it partly because of faith, partly because of the internal consistency of the metaphysical integrity of the Gospel and the Church in revealing the meaning in a deeper way to me than just the passion play itself if simply read has given me.

In the same way that nature can serve as a “proof” of God, so too does the wisdom of the Church and its integrity of its metaphysics for 2000 years. The testimony of the saints is no mean thing.

God bless
Sidebar for PATHIA
Perhaps you stay not because it is familiar or comfortable, but that you who have had such difficulties and had to stand without support so often can recognize Truth. Truth, once you get a taste of it, you can’t go anywhere else but to it. Based on your posts I have read, I think you tasted the Truth deep within the theology, and you won’t suffer for anything less.

God bless.
 
With all due respect, I have seen many dissenters who dissent because they have done things against God’s will and will not admit it even to themselves. It becomes a denial game. Perhaps they use contraceptives or have had an abortion. I wish they would honestly look at themselves and ask themselves if they are simply running from the truth because they fear Confession, don’t want to bother with ‘getting into’ the Faith,prefer this world to God’s teachings, feel guilty about some sin, just like to be contrary and ‘different’ etc. Please, ask yourself if you are really being honest with yourself. Search your conscience. God is waiting for you! God bless.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
It is based on no “authority” as I assume you mean it, but on the considered expert opinion of a goodly number of biblical exegetes. I am convinced by the number and quality of the arguement that references to church in the NT are almost always later additions. It should be remembered that this was not done for any nefarious reason, but was based on belief at the time and was added in the opinion of experts in order to make the text clear and unequivocal. That does not change the fact that most do not believe they were the exact words of Christ.
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Ah…
The ‘because I believe that’ proof.:rolleyes:

Prove your assertion.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
I might suggest you start with Anchor books on the individual books of the NT…If you go to Anchors web page…You might also try Mier who did a 3 book study of Jesus.
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You claim that Anchor, the website, and Mier have more authority then God’s church.

Do you believe you are Catholic?
 
reggieM said:
You seem surprised by that fact. Narrow is the path and few there are that find it.
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I don’t know how you read surprise into it. The Church has been proclaiming for years that most people will go to hell if they sin, and since most Euro-American Catholics unrepentantly commit the supreme sin of contraception, they will probably end up in hell. Of course, it was probably an overstatement for me to say that “hell will be full,” because God as the wise designer and chief architect would have devised a Hell large enough to hold all the unrepentant sinners.
 
drpmjhess said:
I don’t know how you read surprise into it. The Church has been proclaiming for years that most people will go to hell if they sin, and since most Euro-American Catholics unrepentantly commit the supreme sin of contraception, they will probably end up in hell. Of course, it was probably an overstatement for me to say that “hell will be full,” because God as the wise designer and chief architect would have devised a Hell large enough to hold all the unrepentant sinners.
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As much as it appears that you enjoy the idea of people being in hell (from the tone of your posts on the subject), let’s remember that Jesus told us that hell was created for the devil and his angels.
 
LCMS_No_More said:
As much as it appears that you enjoy the idea of people being in hell (from the tone of your posts on the subject), let’s remember that Jesus told us that hell was created for the devil and his angels.
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No one enjoys the idea of people being in hell. Where does it say ONLY the devil and his angels are in hell?? Where do you think Hitler, etc. are today?
 
vz71 said:
You claim that Anchor, the website, and Mier have more authority then God’s church.

Do you believe you are Catholic?
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What in the world are you talking about? BIblical exegesis and form criticism are accepted methodologies used by Catholic seminaries and Catholic universities. I don’t believe I am Catholic, I have the papers to prove it. You are not required to become intellectually curious about the bible, however there is no Catholic ban on doing so, and I am not aware of any injuncture that prohibits any of these experts from publishing (many are well known Catholics) or their being used in Catholic institutions.

It is not a matter of authority. It is a matter of intellectual honesty. The Church, so far, does not prohibit that either.
 
SpiritMeadow said:
What in the world are you talking about? BIblical exegesis and form criticism are accepted methodologies used by Catholic seminaries and Catholic universities. I don’t believe I am Catholic, I have the papers to prove it. You are not required to become intellectually curious about the bible, however there is no Catholic ban on doing so, and I am not aware of any injuncture that prohibits any of these experts from publishing (many are well known Catholics) or their being used in Catholic institutions.

It is not a matter of authority. It is a matter of intellectual honesty. The Church, so far, does not prohibit that either.
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You have presented no evdience whatsover that passages concerning Peter were added to Scripture later. All you have done is tell us you read it somewhere and said it might be in one of the 3 books written by one guy or in one of about 50 books on a website.

I would think if such a claim had been made it would be front and center on every anti-catholic website on the internet.
 
MarcellusW said:
Again, the page number(s) and book, etc, etc, is what people were asking for, not ‘try this book and search for the general subject’. If you know it you know it, if you dont, then please say so. And if you dont care to persuade others, then why bother saying anything in the first place?
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I do not have the particular page numbers and so forth at hand. These are matters I addressed some years ago when I was attending a Catholic college. I have no desire to pursuade as I find that that is essentially not possible here. Anyone can study these things, but I have no need to prove anything. I simply stated my opinion and what it was based upon.
Your attitude is incredibly condescending: “I have no need or desire to revisit old research.” “You may look it up yourself.” This seems to be the general trend in your posts on other threads as well and for me personally it is a thread killer. There are plenty of other people that have degrees above the bachelor level who post on these boards yet they refrain from wearing it on their sleeve.
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You mistake me for the one doing the eye rolling and calling it “Spiritmeadow’s opinion.” Such is patently condenscending and moreover ludicrous. To suggest that I simply read the bible and come up with weird interpretations oot of my head is but a method of making nonsense of what I said. It’s a common practice here for some. I have been invited to do exactly that on many occasions. I have direct the person to the appropriate area to locate the information. I am not going to spend my time doing so, I’ve already done it. Ignore my posts if you find them so unuseful. I have done a ton of research on innumerable subjects for people here. Most has been rejected out of hand without even a cursory remark, so one learns to save one’s time.
If you were to have a little more respect for others you will find many people(including myself) will reciprocate even if they strongly disagree with your opinion.
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As I said, look to the person who was so insulting to me before casting the stone at me my friend.
 
iamrefreshed said:
So I guess that makes you Baptist or Protestant?

Yes, I’ll follow the CCC…because I’m Catholic!😃
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It must indeed feel wonderful to insult me knowing that I will be the one accused of being uncharitable. You may assume what you wish, since apparently you desire to do so. I shall continue to attend my parish as I always have and enjoy my faith, because I’m Catholic. 😃
 
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