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SoCalRC
Guest
We have to be clear that the contraceptive devices themselves are not intrinsiclly evil, just specific applications. For example, we have the unusual case of the nuns being permitted the use of oral contraceptives in the Congo to legitimately defend themselves against a systematic campaign of rape.
Similiarly, the use of emergency contraception in the case of rape is generally considered a licit form of self defense (provided, of course, that fertilization has not yet occured).
From my understanding of doctrine, I would have to say that the dissenters are misguided. But most of the response here strikes me as misguided as well. It is well and good to just label one’s ‘opposition’ as bad people with loose morals. But that would not be Christian. If you want to love your neighbor as yourself, you need to find some empathy and understanding for his/her position. You also have to view their comments in the most charitable light possible (as the Catechism instructs). Remember, on contraception, some Bishops, particularly in areas like sub-Saharan Africa, have made pleas and inquiries to Rome. Before we dismiss princes of the Church, people who have dedicated their lives to the Church, consider this;
Those Bishops deal, every day of their lives, with more poverty and human misery than most of us can possibly imagine. When one has true compassion, it certainly seems understandable to me that one could be seduced by a misapplication of proportionate reasons. We, particularly in the US, have no right to harshly judge. Our own birth rate makes it clear, the vast majority of US Catholics use contraception at the same rate as the general population. As a group, we are in no position to cast the first stone. Many of the dissidents are, in fact, trying to stop horrific human suffering.
Which leads to the second argument here, why don’t the sufferers just stop? Isn’t this all their fault? My suggestion would be, spend a month or two as, say, an 11 year old living homeless in an impoverished nation. Anyone who is absolutely certain that living on garbage scraps like a wild dog, experiencing true suffering from hunger and exposure, would not follow a promise of food, or even a nights rest without fear, into the evil trap of the sex trade, or some other modern form of slavery, is a stronger person than I.
They are our neighbors, to be loved as ourselves. And as such, we do have some responsibility towards their situation beyond finger waggling.
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onetimeposter
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Bravo. However, it is very difficult for rich and very pious North Americans to stop the wagging of the proverbial finger at poor unchaste Africans.
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rtconstant
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But very easy for them to throw condoms at a warzone filled with serial rape and slavery then turn their backs and say they “helped”.
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edwest2
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It is wrong to attempt to make people feel guilt as individuals wnen governments in Africa are often at fault. Who in America would condone arming 12 year old boys with AK-47s? Who here would allow the military to gun down aid workers attempting to deliver food to the starving and take it for themselves? Or who would say it is OK to tax food shipments to the starving, thereby taking away money that could buy more food?
The whole picture needs to be presented, not just a part.
God bless,
Ed
The whole picture needs to be presented, not just a part.
God bless,
Ed
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SoCalRC
Guest
Again, seemingly not a particularly Christian point of view. The larger problem is huge, so it is natural to become obsessed with a bandaide which does, demonstrably address one grievous symptom of the disease.
If the Italian press is to be believed, this is not an issue that our pope has dismissed out of hand, and there has even been supposed discussions and consideration among groups like the CDF.
I think that the real problem isn’t the dissent, compassion is understandable, even if miguided. I think that the problem is judgement in place of humility and shame. Instead of ‘how dare they!’, perhaps we should be asking ourselves how, as the wealthiest nation in the world, and the largest density of self described Christians in human history, not be doing more to provide a licid solution to the suffering? How sad that condoms offer more immediate hope than us…
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edwest2
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People are helping but even some of them are dying in the process:
nytimes.com/2008/07/16/world/africa/16fbriefs-AIDWORKERKIL_BRF.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/12/somalia2.aidworkers.ap/index.html
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1300179.stm
God bless,
Ed
nytimes.com/2008/07/16/world/africa/16fbriefs-AIDWORKERKIL_BRF.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/07/12/somalia2.aidworkers.ap/index.html
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1300179.stm
God bless,
Ed
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LRThunder
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Unwanted pregnancies and HIV transmissions will continue as long as the promiscious lifestyle continues. The Church doesn’t force them to engage in that lifestyle.
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onetimeposter
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But wags their finger afterwards? Where is the acceptance of reality and the compassion in that?
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LilyM
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No, they do the fingerwagging beforehand, like any good parent does, so that at least some of them don’t get into trouble in the first place. That IS acceptance of reality, and also compassion, to try to keep the sheep away from the edge of the cliff, no?
Afterwards, they give them the sacrament of confession and Catholic-charity-run counselling services to help restore their souls and psyches, and church-run hospitals and medical services to restore their bodies, not to mention St Vincents and church-run childminding and other services to make their lives easier in other ways. There’s much acceptance of the reality that they need ongoing help, and compassion, in these things too.
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KathleenElsie
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Layman
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Hee hee, they’ve been throwing condoms at kids in the West for twenty years now, and the number of illegitimate kids is way up.
What makes people think it’ll work in the savage parts of Africa? It’s intellectual conceit.
Thus Satan’s plan is accomplished: make humans treat sex casually, promote the illusion that it can be consequence-free, make babies seem a burden, promote a Hollywood fantasy of ‘plenty without care’…
This leads to ‘single parent families’.
Result: A selfish, angry and perverse generation.
Hah hah, it’s insane. **The answer to VD and bastard kids? **More sex! (using condoms).
What makes people think it’ll work in the savage parts of Africa? It’s intellectual conceit.
Thus Satan’s plan is accomplished: make humans treat sex casually, promote the illusion that it can be consequence-free, make babies seem a burden, promote a Hollywood fantasy of ‘plenty without care’…
This leads to ‘single parent families’.
Result: A selfish, angry and perverse generation.
Hah hah, it’s insane. **The answer to VD and bastard kids? **More sex! (using condoms).
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onetimeposter
Guest
A good parent would also teach their child more than one way to protect themselves.
The child will ultimately make their own decision, may as well arm them with all of the information and not just the information that you want them to hear.
A poor parent would only tell the youth to abstain and then act shocked later to find out that their child didn’t listen and contracted Hep C.
Confession wont help the Hep C go away.
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onetimeposter
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There were no illegitimate children before this generation and STD’s are a new phenomena!
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Spirithound
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But there is only one way to fully avoid pregnancy and/or STDs!
Have you read an article called Contraception: Why Not? ? It’s a transcript of a talk given by Professor Janet Smith at a Catholic Physicians Guild meeting at the Pontifical College Josephinum, Columbus, Ohio in May, 1994.
In it, she talks about Pope Paul VI’s predictions about contraception in Humanae Vitae, and how they’ve come true, among many other points.
A poor parent would just say “Abstain!!!” and then walk away. A good parent teaches chastity. That is the information I would want my child to hear.
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onetimeposter
Guest
Yes, but teenagers, young adults and those who make the choice to use drugs or alcohol, can make poor choices.
I really believe that there is a lower incidence of STD’s in Canada than in the U.S…and that is because there is no abstinence only education…rather it is a multi-faceted approach.
The Chaste teen may still make a mistake, but lets not make it a fatal mistake, rather lets give them all the information…not just the information that corresponds with a moral compass of chastity.
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Layman
Guest
Well, I live in the UK, and my experience is the opposite. The bureaucratic elite wring their hands here and say the answer is “more sex education, more awareness of artificial contraception and abortion on demand”.
The result:
More ‘single parent families’ than ever. STDs have boomed. Even homosexuals are being more careless about HIV. You have a generation that thinks nothing about having ‘f*ck buddies’.
They’re even talking here about ‘educating’ five year olds about sex.
It’s intellectual pride. And we know where that leads.
The result:
More ‘single parent families’ than ever. STDs have boomed. Even homosexuals are being more careless about HIV. You have a generation that thinks nothing about having ‘f*ck buddies’.
They’re even talking here about ‘educating’ five year olds about sex.
It’s intellectual pride. And we know where that leads.
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onetimeposter
Guest
That has nothing to do with sexual contraception…it has to do with a culture obsessed with pornography. It is a pornographic generation.
Internet pornography is a plague, and has nothing to do with contraception or sexual education.
These youths do not engage in sexual practices because they were told condoms can prevent the transmission of STD’s, rather they are immersed in a generation that is bombarded with sexual images from pop culture and they are quite literally being sexualized by the media and culture.
A person should look into the home for the parents to step up to the plate.
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Layman
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The availability of pornography is not a cause. It’s an effect. To forbid anything nowadays is seen as illiberal.
Now you have entire nations behaving decadently, but the ruling classes truly believe they’ve never been so pious (e.g. political correctness).
1808: Have sex outside marriage? The woman was considered a harlot, her life ruined and the man could be thrashed by her male relatives. Or worse.
2008: No problem.
Now you have entire nations behaving decadently, but the ruling classes truly believe they’ve never been so pious (e.g. political correctness).
1808: Have sex outside marriage? The woman was considered a harlot, her life ruined and the man could be thrashed by her male relatives. Or worse.
2008: No problem.
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JudieK
Guest
One Time- You still haven’t addressed the point that rapists and adulterers probably don’t care what the Church says about condoms. You seem to think that what the Catholic Church says is important to these folks. 
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