Dissidents Rally Opposition to John Paul's Beatification

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This is really awful, liberals intentions unvieled!!! Liberal Catholics I’m so sick of you! If you don’t like what we teach, then GET OUT!

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bones_IV:
This is really awful, liberals intentions unvieled!!! Liberal Catholics I’m so sick of you! If you don’t like what we teach, then GET OUT!

Link
Click to expand...
I think the list of complaints seems to support his beatification.
 
I knew he was a Saint long before he died. What are those IDIOTS thinking? They should join the dying Episcopal church.
 
I agree with the Archbishop of Krakow:

"Archbishop Stanislaw Dziwiszof Krakow, who served as the late Pope’s personal secretary, was more openly dismissive of the protest. “In principle, one should ignore these attacks,” said the Polish archbishop. “You only have to look at the list of people signing the appeal to be reassured about the process of beatification.”
Silly, silly, silly. He’ll be Saint John Paul the Great in short order and for some of the very reasons that they list as problematic.
 
DissidentCatholics said:
1. the “repression and marginalization” of controversial theologians;
2. the movement away from collegiality in Church governance;
3. the unwillingness to engage in “real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;”
4. the opposition to “a reconsideration-- in the light of the Gospel, science, and history-- of certain norms of sexual ethics;”
5. the adherence to the discipline of clerical celibacy–which, the statement said, continues despite the evidence that many priests in some geographical regions live with women, and the sexual abuse of children in other regions;
6. the lack of control over Church financial institutions, leading to the banking scandals of the 1980s;
7. the “ecclesial isolation” of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the failure to support the theology of liberation in Latin America." from Catholic News, Tuesday December 06, 2005
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I’m waitng for a reason.
 
#6 is unfortunate, but the mess was brewing for many years. John Paul II inherited the mess.

The other reasons that were listed don’t seem to have any connection to the saintly life that he led. It is just political carping.
 
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bauerice:
I knew he was a Saint long before he died. What are those IDIOTS thinking? They should join the dying Episcopal church.
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Especially with same-sex relationships, women priests and scandalous affairs going on in it’s hierarchy.
 
Originally Posted by DissidentCatholics
1. the “repression and marginalization” of controversial theologians;
2. the movement away from collegiality in Church governance;
3. the unwillingness to engage in “real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;”
4. the opposition to “a reconsideration-- in the light of the Gospel, science, and history-- of certain norms of sexual ethics;”
5. the adherence to the discipline of clerical celibacy–which, the statement said, continues despite the evidence that many priests in some geographical regions live with women, and the sexual abuse of children in other regions;
6. the lack of control over Church financial institutions, leading to the banking scandals of the 1980s;
7. the “ecclesial isolation” of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the failure to support the theology of liberation in Latin America." from Catholic News, Tuesday December 06, 2005
Click to expand...
None of these enumerated grievances against the deceased pope is either a plus or a minus against his beatification.

The beatification process isn’t supposed to be a popularity contest, it isn’t supposed to be whether or not the subject was a great pope, or a mediocre one. Its supposed to be about the subject’s holiness.

There were great popes who were never canonized, e.g. Paul III who convened Trent, or Julius II who designed St. Peter’s and commissioned Raphael and Michaelangelo to create some of their finest works. On the other hand, there were mediocre popes who were over their heads in the papacy like Celestine V , who were nonetheless canonized.
 
The group then lists a series of complaints about John Paul’s pontificate:

Here are some thought that come to mind regarding each point.
  1. the “repression and marginalization” of controversial theologians;
(What is the count? , about 24, wow !)
  1. the movement away from collegiality in Church governance;
What no AmChurch!
  1. the unwillingness to engage in “real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;”
What no priestesses!
  1. the opposition to “a reconsideration-- in the light of the Gospel, science, and history-- of certain norms of sexual ethics;”
What? marrige is a sacrament!
  1. the adherence to the discipline of clerical celibacy–which, the statement said, continues despite the evidence that many priests in some geographical regions live with women, and the sexual abuse of children in other regions;
What? priest are expected to live their vows?
  1. the lack of control over Church financial institutions, leading to the banking scandals of the 1980s;
Hey! wasn’t that the plot of the God Father Part III?
  1. the “ecclesial isolation” of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the failure to support the theology of liberation in Latin America."
What no marxism?

I say these points are solid evidence of Pope John Paul II exhibiting heroic virtues.
 
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MiddleBear:
The group then lists a series of complaints about John Paul’s pontificate:

Here are some thought that come to mind regarding each point.
  1. the “repression and marginalization” of controversial theologians;
(What is the count? , about 24, wow !)
  1. the movement away from collegiality in Church governance;
What no AmChurch!
  1. the unwillingness to engage in “real and serious debate about the status of women in the Roman Catholic Church;”
What no priestesses!
  1. the opposition to “a reconsideration-- in the light of the Gospel, science, and history-- of certain norms of sexual ethics;”
What? marrige is a sacrament!
  1. the adherence to the discipline of clerical celibacy–which, the statement said, continues despite the evidence that many priests in some geographical regions live with women, and the sexual abuse of children in other regions;
What? priest are expected to live their vows?
  1. the lack of control over Church financial institutions, leading to the banking scandals of the 1980s;
Hey! wasn’t that the plot of the God Father Part III?
  1. the “ecclesial isolation” of Archbishop Oscar Romero and the failure to support the theology of liberation in Latin America."
What no marxism?

I say these points are solid evidence of Pope John Paul II exhibiting heroic virtues.
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Amen!

You know what Leo XIII said about eliminating God from public, well this is exactly what these liberal theologians are trying to do with liberation theology.
 
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Maranatha:
I think the list of complaints seems to support his beatification.
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I agree - this seems to actually support beatification. All of those complaints save one were examples of fortitude and the speaking of the truth in the face of cultural opposition. We love you John Paul the Great!
 
Man these Liberals really have faith I mean they actually believe if they keep complaining long enough and loud that the Church is gonna up and overturn 2000 years of tradition just so they can feel all warm fuzzy inside when they have a “modern chruch” like that will ever happen! 😃
 
I wish all the liberals, the cafeterias , the heterodox, the dissenters, etc., would all just march out the door to their protestant churchs where they belong! I am soooooo tired of their self centered complaints against Holy Mother Church, all She is and all She stands for in this corrupt world.
Though we know the “gates of Hell will not prevail” against Her, a little less pounding by these people would be welcome to my ears.
JPII will be beatified, whether they like it or agree with it, or not.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t JPII revise the process for canonization? Didn’t his new process eliminate the option for canonization ‘by acclamation’ and didn’t it require a fairly long waiting period after the death of the person?

Isn’t it kinda disrespectful of his own wishes to violate the guideline he oversaw in regards to his own cause?

Seems odd to me. It’s not like he needs to wait at the gates until the canonization is done!
 
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manualman:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t JPII revise the process for canonization? Didn’t his new process eliminate the option for canonization ‘by acclamation’ and didn’t it require a fairly long waiting period after the death of the person?

Isn’t it kinda disrespectful of his own wishes to violate the guideline he oversaw in regards to his own cause?

Seems odd to me. It’s not like he needs to wait at the gates until the canonization is done!
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OK, you’re wrong. Canonization by acclamation has not occurred since the first millennium. JP2 actually speeded up the process of canonization. Formerly 25 years had to elapse between death and beatification and another 25 before canonization. He reduced this to 5 years.
 
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bones_IV:
This is really awful, liberals intentions unvieled!!! Liberal Catholics I’m so sick of you! If you don’t like what we teach, then GET OUT!

Link
Click to expand...
Code:
Hey Bones! Now you sound like Mother Angelica and you are in good company (including myself of course…:whistle: ). God bless you! :dancing:
 
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Kielbasi:
None of these enumerated grievances against the deceased pope is either a plus or a minus against his beatification.

The beatification process isn’t supposed to be a popularity contest, it isn’t supposed to be whether or not the subject was a great pope, or a mediocre one. Its supposed to be about the subject’s holiness.

There were great popes who were never canonized, e.g. Paul III who convened Trent, or Julius II who designed St. Peter’s and commissioned Raphael and Michaelangelo to create some of their finest works. On the other hand, there were mediocre popes who were over their heads in the papacy like Celestine V , who were nonetheless canonized.
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That’s true, but before anyone is declared “The Venerable”, the necessary first stage in becoming canonized, he must be proven to have lived ALL the virtues to a “heroic” extent. Any of his acts or omissions in the exercise of an office such as the papacy, could be relevant to a consideration of how well he lived such virtues as prudence, justice, charity, kindness, patience, and diligence.
 
Blessed are you, when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.

It seems that the scriptural evidence for John Paul’s beatification is compelling.
 
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