Disturbing News on TLM

[brotherhrolf]

Oh, as we say down here, Mon Dieu! Eilish Maura , no one is asking you to forsake your beloved OF. We didn’t dispute HMC back in 1969. There were a whole lot of us who werenen’t happy back then but it was beyond our imagination to dispute HMC. Forty years later it is now OK to dispute what HMC has to to say. We’ve got the HF saying what we have been saying for the last 40 years. No one, and I mean no one is asking you to give up your OF. No one. So what’s the big deal? What are you scared of? In my diocese the MP was merely “acknowledged” and followed by an attack editorial from the chancellor of the diocese who said that “no one wants the TLM”.

I grew up with this Mass. Didn’t change until I was in high school. Pardon me, sir, but exactly where do you get off telling me I am wrong in the way I desire to worship. It would indeed be moot if we were talking about a revitalization of a long dead rite. Unfortunately, you have this really big problem in that there is a whole bunch of us who are alive today who are not dead yet.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Oh, as we say down here, Mon Dieu! Eilish Maura , no one is asking you to forsake your beloved OF. We didn’t dispute HMC back in 1969. There were a whole lot of us who werenen’t happy back then but it was beyond our imagination to dispute HMC. Forty years later it is now OK to dispute what HMC has to to say. We’ve got the HF saying what we have been saying for the last 40 years. No one, and I mean no one is asking you to give up your OF. No one. So what’s the big deal? What are you scared of? In my diocese the MP was merely “acknowledged” and followed by an attack editorial from the chancellor of the diocese who said that “no one wants the TLM”.

I grew up with this Mass. Didn’t change until I was in high school. Pardon me, sir, but exactly where do you get off telling me I am wrong in the way I desire to worship. It would indeed be moot if we were talking about a revitalization of a long dead rite. Unfortunately, you have this really big problem in that there is a whole bunch of us who are alive today who are not dead yet.

Why do you turn things into a personal attack against you?

Where did I say you were wrong in your preferences??

 

[Your_Abbott]

Why do you turn things into a personal attack against you?

Where did I say you were wrong in your preferences??

You will find that these people are venomous in their attacks. Accept it. A wounded animal always snaps back.

Your Abbott

 

[GerardP]

Yes, they are. They are teaching them to veer away from Latin.

So who is disobedient to the Second Vatican Council?

“the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites.”

It is the language of dead Romans. The language is dead. So too the Latin Mass. It is time to give it a decent burial.

This looks dangerously close to contempt for Catholicism.

It seems from the count, there is a latin mass for every one million catholics. Keep that number in your head. Yes, “lex orandi, lex credendi” is telling us that the latin mass is over, “Ite Missa est”. “Deo Gratias”.

From Summorum Pontificum:

But in some regions, **no small numbers of faithful adhered **and continue to adhere with great love and affection to the earlier liturgical forms. These had so deeply marked their culture and their spirit that in 1984 the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II, moved by a concern for the pastoral care of these faithful, with the special indult 'Quattuor abhinc anno," issued by the Congregation for Divine Worship, granted permission to use the Roman Missal published by Blessed John XXIII in the year 1962. Later, in the year 1988, John Paul II with the Apostolic Letter given as Motu Proprio, ‘Ecclesia Dei,’ exhorted bishops to make generous use of this power in favor of all the faithful who so desired.

Following the insistent prayers of these faithful, long deliberated upon by our predecessor John Paul II, and after having listened to the views of the Cardinal Fathers of the Consistory of 22 March 2006, having reflected deeply upon all aspects of the question, invoked the Holy Spirit and trusting in the help of God, with these Apostolic Letters we establish the following…etc. etc.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Yes, they are. They are teaching them to veer away from Latin. It is the language of dead Romans. The language is dead. So too the Latin Mass. It is time to give it a decent burial.

The older priests outnumber the youngsters, and the youngsters don’t see these old duffers doing anything to preserve the Latin rite. It is up to the oldies, but they are not doing it.

It seems from the count, there is a latin mass for every one million catholics. Keep that number in your head. Yes, “lex orandi, lex credendi” is telling us that the latin mass is over, “Ite Missa est”. “Deo Gratias”.

Your Abbott

I have seldom read such drecht in all my life. Taurine foecal matter if you ask me. Hey Abbott!

youtube.com/watch?v=tPrm6luPmME

What are you so afraid of Abbott? OHHH, evil nasty pre-Vatican II Catholics wanting to avoid the “introduce yourself to the people next to you”; join your hands together to do the “wave” for the Pater Noster; have Father run up and down the main aisle during the sign of peace?

If you are happy with that, fine. No one is trying to impose what we would like to see on you. Whatcha gonna do with a cathedral choir that routinely sings chant and Latin motets from a choir loft and with an organ? Rip it out? Holy guacamole Batman - brand new choir loft; brand new organ reinstalled in 1992. Hmmmm, might have something to do with this.

 

[MrS]

From the Abbot…
*Yes, they are. They are teaching them to veer away from Latin. It is the language of dead Romans. The language is dead. So too the Latin Mass. It is time to give it a decent burial. *

*The older priests outnumber the youngsters, and the youngsters don’t see these old duffers doing anything to preserve the Latin rite. It is up to the oldies, but they are not doing it. *

It seems from the count, there is a latin mass for every one million catholics. Keep that number in your head. Yes, “lex orandi, lex credendi” is telling us that the latin mass is over, “Ite Missa est”. “Deo Gratias”.

I have seldom read such drecht in all my life. Taurine foecal matter if you ask me. Hey Abbott!

youtube.com/watch?v=tPrm6luPmME

What are you so afraid of Abbott?

Your youtube feed was just what I was thinking too. Hilarious, and we all need a good laugh no w and again.

I was also remined of the winner of the British Talent Show, Paul Potts.

Whenever he sings he gets standing ovations and many tears for the beauty of the song, the sincerity of the delivery, and the quality of his voice too. And it is not even in English, yet many have an emotional understanding of what he is doing.

Perhaps some of the Latin detractors here should or could have their posts edited… to eliminate all the words they use which have a Latin root. That could be a win-win. And it might even improve the post…

.

 

[CradleCath]

CradleCath;3407099:

Actually you “suggested” that if the people in the congregation don’t appreciate Gregorian Chant, then leave it out. While many parishes have done just that, it’s not intended to be this way. Vatican II reminds us that "Gregorian chant is specially

suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services."

Please show where I said that.

I believe you are adding to my actual post.

Is there a reason that you post in the Traditional Catholicism forum? Besides that of arguing for argument’s sake?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Eilish Maura;3407165:

Is there a reason that you post in the Traditional Catholicism forum? Besides that of arguing for argument’s sake?

Sorry but you seem to be the one looking to make trouble - here and on at least one other forum.

Just relax.

 

[holdencaulfield]

From the Abbot…
*Yes, they are. They are teaching them to veer away from Latin. It is the language of dead Romans. The language is dead. So too the Latin Mass. It is time to give it a decent burial. *

*The older priests outnumber the youngsters, and the youngsters don’t see these old duffers doing anything to preserve the Latin rite. It is up to the oldies, but they are not doing it. *

It seems from the count, there is a latin mass for every one million catholics. Keep that number in your head. Yes, “lex orandi, lex credendi” is telling us that the latin mass is over, “Ite Missa est”. “Deo Gratias”.

I don’t get it.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Actually you “suggested” that if the people in the congregation don’t appreciate Gregorian Chant, then leave it out. While many parishes have done just that, it’s not intended to be this way. Vatican II reminds us that "Gregorian chant is specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services."

I love the Gregorian Chant.

 

[Brother_John]

I attended a Life Teen Mass today, and some of the prayers were said in Latin…very distracting, to be honest.

If you don’t KNOW all the Latin, it’s just so many “words” that don’t have any meaning when you hear them.

 

[holdencaulfield]

I attended a Life Teen Mass today, and some of the prayers were said in Latin…very distracting, to be honest.

If you don’t KNOW all the Latin, it’s just so many “words” that don’t have any meaning when you hear them.

Then don’t got to services in Latin. I don’t speak Latin, however I find it to be quite beautiful. It doesn’t bother me.

 

[Brother_John]

Then don’t got to services in Latin. I don’t speak Latin, however I find it to be quite beautiful. It doesn’t bother me.

Only certain prayers were said in Latin. I do think it is admirable that the priest is exposing the teens to Latin…It was just distracting and very paradoxical, considering the music that was used for the Mass.

It was kinda like being in a Catholic blender, with the button on “high” speed.

NOT griping, just an observation. Kinda like the pastor at my parish. He will occasionally veer off and say certain prayers in Spanish…I’m sure he has his reasons, but it’s distracting. If I want Mass in Latin, I’ll go to Latin Mass. If I want Mass in Spanish, I’ll go to the one o’clock Spanish Mass.

 

[Dauphin]

Yes, they are. They are teaching them to veer away from Latin. It is the language of dead Romans. The language is dead. So too the Latin Mass. It is time to give it a decent burial.

I was under the impression that seminarians were required to learn :atin and that Traditional seminaries were filled to the brim with young men. Does this frighten you? Is there something offensive about the revival of Latin?

The older priests outnumber the youngsters, and the youngsters don’t see these old duffers doing anything to preserve the Latin rite. It is up to the oldies, but they are not doing it.

Pope Benedict seems to be doing it, and I daresay that the Pope is in a position to make substantial improvements. Traditional communities are growing and traditional seminaries are full. It will take time, but the work of young people will return Latin to its pride of place in the Church.

It seems from the count, there is a latin mass for every one million catholics. Keep that number in your head.

If “the count” had ever mattered to Christians, then the apostles would have seen the numbers and the odds, and they would have given up trying to spread the faith.

Just because something isn’t popular does mean it isn’t great. In a world steeped in sin and with a massive aversion to all things Catholic, we should expect that the Traditional Latin Mass won’t be the most popular thing. True worship of God - and not of ourselves - is an unpopular notion.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Only certain prayers were said in Latin. I do think it is admirable that the priest is exposing the teens to Latin…It was just distracting and very paradoxical, considering the music that was used for the Mass.

It was kinda like being in a Catholic blender, with the button on “high” speed.

NOT griping, just an observation. Kinda like the pastor at my parish. He will occasionally veer off and say certain prayers in Spanish…I’m sure he has his reasons, but it’s distracting. If I want Mass in Latin, I’ll go to Latin Mass. If I want Mass in Spanish, I’ll go to the one o’clock Spanish Mass.

You have a point.

 

[James0235]

NOT griping, just an observation. Kinda like the pastor at my parish. He will occasionally veer off and say certain prayers in Spanish…I’m sure he has his reasons, but it’s distracting. If I want Mass in Latin, I’ll go to Latin Mass. If I want Mass in Spanish, I’ll go to the one o’clock Spanish Mass.

Could he just be forgetting and slipping into Spanish? Several times I have seen elderly priests do things like say the offertory or the Our Father twice.

Vatican officials have repeatedly said that we should be incorporating more Latin into otherwise vernacular Masses. The USCCB event went so far as to name 3 specific Latin Chants that every congregation should know - 1 particular version of the Kyrie (actually Greek) , Agnus Dei, and Sanctus. I think using 3 short chants like these fulfills the desires of the Pope and the 2nd Vatican Council for more Latin in the Mass and it still leaves an overwhelming majority in the vernacular.

James

 

[holdencaulfield]

Could he just be forgetting and slipping into Spanish? Several times I have seen elderly priests do things like say the offertory or the Our Father twice.

Vatican officials have repeatedly said that we should be incorporating more Latin into otherwise vernacular Masses. The USCCB event went so far as to name 3 specific Latin Chants that every congregation should know - 1 particular version of the Kyrie (actually Greek) , Agnus Dei, and Sanctus. I think using 3 short chants like these fulfills the desires of the Pope and the 2nd Vatican Council for more Latin in the Mass and it still leaves an overwhelming majority in the vernacular.

James

However for those that prefer NO, it looks like more and more parishes are going to be adding TLM services as well.

 

[bkovacs]

No call for Gregorian chant does not mean the congregation is against it or does not ‘appreciate it’ or whatever other insertion some try to make into my words.

If valid options provided by the HMC are used, and pride of place is not defined by her according to level of usage, there is no problem and no need to worry about a choir being capable of doing Gregorian chant.

Funny how their is no call for Gregorian Chant. But the Pope has put a pride of place for it. I thought that meant, that it is preferred over modern day folk music, and should be used over folk music… But people prefer guitars over Gregorian Chant. Gregorian Chant is left to cd’s on amazon.com, not a bad thing. But not in a church where it belongs. America wants it’s own separate Catholic Church. A happy clappy Catholic Church. Nothing whatsoever tied to the past and the Medieval Roman Catholic Church. I would not be at all surprised if there is a separation in the future, like what happened in the US Episcopal Church. Not only over this but many other issues. Just my opinion!.

 

[Brother_John]

Could he just be forgetting and slipping into Spanish? James

Nope…he would actually switch Sacrementaries back and forth.

Back to the Teen Mass… those were three of the prayers said in Latin, along with the “Mystery of Faith” and the “Through Him, With Him…”

As a side note, last time I went to the Teen Mass, the piano played softly in the background during the consecration. It was very nice, but I’m told not cool with Canon Law. This time the piano was silent.

This priest seems to be very careful not to break rules.

 

[sodak]

And we both know that Sunday collections drive the bus. … We already have the one Spanish Mass, which generates a pittance in comparison to the other Masses.

If money drives the bus, and Spanish Mass generates very little money, then why don’t they discontinue it?