Disturbing News on TLM

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sodak said:
If money drives the bus, and Spanish Mass generates very little money, then why don’t they discontinue it?
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Because the Bishop more or less forced the “Spanish Ministry” on our parish. We got the Spanish Ministry, and next closest parish got the Teen Ministry.
 
peregrinus_WA said:
My parish uses Chant in both forms of the Mass. I prefer Chant and I go to the Ordinary Form Mass.
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Glad to hear that. But the dozen or so in my local don’t use it. They can’t even sing very well. Sounds like the The Sound of Music soundtrack playing every time you go to Mass.
 
bkovacs said:
Funny how their is no call for Gregorian Chant. But the Pope has put a pride of place for it. I thought that meant, that it is preferred over modern day folk music, and should be used over folk music…
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It does the Pope is turning things around. 😃
But people prefer guitars over Gregorian Chant. Gregorian Chant is left to cd’s on amazon.com, not a bad thing. But not in a church where it belongs. America wants it’s own separate Catholic Church. A happy clappy Catholic Church. Nothing whatsoever tied to the past and the Medieval Roman Catholic Church.
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I don’t think so. Have you spent any time here on these forums.
I would not be at all surprised if there is a separation in the future, like what happened in the US Episcopal Church. Not only over this but many other issues. Just my opinion!.
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Doesn’t matter all of use will stay with the Bishop of Rome.
 
bkovacs said:
Glad to hear that. But the dozen or so in my local don’t use it. They can’t even sing very well. Sounds like the The Sound of Music soundtrack playing every time you go to Mass.
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You really have no TLM parishes in your diocese?
 
bkovacs said:
Not in the Philadelphia Archdiocese!.
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Hey, have you checked out this link which lists Latin Masses throughout the United States and Canada?

web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm

I see a Latin Mass at Our Lady of Consolation and Our Lady of Lourdes.

Check the website once in awhile, because the trend of Latin Masses being offered in more and more parishes is in fact growing … It just may take awhile longer in your area.

PAX ET BONUM,

~~ the phoenix
 
the_phoenix said:
Hey, have you checked out this link which lists Latin Masses throughout the United States and Canada?

web2.airmail.net/carlsch/MaterDei/churches.htm

I see a Latin Mass at Our Lady of Consolation and Our Lady of Lourdes.

Check the website once in awhile, because the trend of Latin Masses being offered in more and more parishes is in fact growing … It just may take awhile longer in your area.

PAX ET BONUM,

~~ the phoenix
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I used that link, and I’m so excited to go to a TLM service that I’m going Tuesday morning bright and early. I just couldn’t wait any longer.
 
holdencaulfield said:
You really have no TLM parishes in your diocese?
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Only a couple on Sunday at 2:00pm and around 30 to 40 miles away. Impossible to attend. Night shifter !. 9:00 or 10:00 would be ideal. And no Novus Ordo Masses use Gregorian Chant.
 
bkovacs said:
Glad to hear that. But the dozen or so in my local don’t use it. They can’t even sing very well. Sounds like the The Sound of Music soundtrack playing every time you go to Mass.
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Being a Bass/Baritone, I cannot sing many of those songs unless I specifically know the Bass/Baritone part. And for many of those songs, I have no desire to learn them.

With Chant, I know how do it within the Bass/Baritone range.
 
bkovacs said:
Only a couple on Sunday at 2:00pm and around 30 to 40 miles away. Impossible to attend. Night shifter !. 9:00 or 10:00 would be ideal. And no Novus Ordo Masses use Gregorian Chant.
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Yea that’s no good at all. I got lucky my closest one is only 12 miles away.
 
Brother_John said:
Back to the Teen Mass… those were three of the prayers said in Latin, along with the “Mystery of Faith” and the “Through Him, With Him…”
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At least around here, parishes tend to “drag out the old Latin” during Lent. Could be what you bumped into at the Life Teen.
 
I don’t mean to throw a monkey wrench into people’s request for a TLM. I just want to state one fact. Many of our parishes are staffed by religious Orders or religious congregations. They are doing us a favor.

Religious Orders were not founded to staff parishes. Bishops also have to be very careful not to demand something from a religious superior that he does not want to do. Even though the Bishop is the highest authority in the diocese, he has no authority within the religious Orders. All religious Orders are of Pontifical Right. This does not apply to all religious congregations.

But, if you an order: Caremelite, Franciscan, Benedictine, Dominican, Augustinian, Trinitarian or Jesuit, they have the right to leave the parish on a moments notice if the bishop’s demands conflict with those of the religious superior. The religious superior outranks the bishop when it comes to the assignments of the religious and what the religious can and cannot do.

I know a diocese where a bishop and a religious superior had a difference of opinion on parish matters. The details are not important. They were unable to reconcile their differences. The religious superior gave the bishop a six month notice that he was pulling his order out of the diocese. It left four parishes without priests. The Bishop appealed to Rome. The Holy See responded that the Order had Pontifical Rights and did not have to serve in parishes, because they were not founded to do so and that their service in parishes was a favour to the local church, not an obligation.

We have such an order in my parish. Fortunately, the relationship between the superior and the bishop is very good. Our situation is even more unique. Our Order is an order of Brothers. Every priest is a Brother. The superior is a Lay Brother, so the pastor is subject to a Lay Brother, as are the three priests in the parish. They were not founded to do parish work. They were founded to preach and to live in community. They only take on parishes because there is a clause in their rule that says that they should help the diocesan clergy as long as it does not interfere with their life of prayer and community.

In some cases, the TLM may cause problems within the religious community. The religious superiors have to avoid this at all costs. Their first obligation is to preserve the unity of their religious house. Most bishops understand this.

We must also understand the pickle that bishops are in when they have a shortage of priests of their own and have to borrow priests from the reiligious orders. In fairness, they don’t want to cause a problem within the religious orders, because they are doing the diocese a favor. And the bishops want to respect the orders.

I know that the Diocese of Arlington VA has a larger number of their own priests. The bishop has the luxury of many secular priests. This is not the case for every bishop. Just like there are religious orders who have no conflicts among their members over the TLM. The superior does not have to worry about conflicts that hurt or divide his community. This is not the reality for everone.

We, the laity, must also be sympathetic to these conditions. Priests, especially religious priests, are technically not employees of the diocese or even members of the diocese. We need to keep these priests, unless someone can muster more secular priests. But right now it’s the religious priests who make up the largest number.

Let’s be patient and understanding of these situations.

JR 🙂
 
holdencaulfield said:
Is Byzantine a language?
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No. Byzantine are the churches of the East. They are united to Rome, but each church has its own rite and its own language. They have never used Latin. They were founded by the Apostles and are in communion with Rome, but Rome respects their tradition. They use their national languages: Croatian, Russian, Greek, Arabic, Polish, Serbian and so forth. They also have a different missal and lectionary and a different liturgical calendar.

Hope this helps.

JR 🙂
 
Eilish_Maura said:
No call for Gregorian chant does not mean the congregation is against it or does not ‘appreciate it’ or whatever other insertion some try to make into my words.
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So just “appreciating” Gregorian Chant equals “pride of place?” I do recall certain “norms” being set down regarding Gregorian Chant. James has posted them on this thread in fact. It doesn’t matter whether no one in the parish wants it or not, it should be done.
 
Dauphin said:
I was under the impression that seminarians were required to learn :atin and that Traditional seminaries were filled to the brim with young men. Does this frighten you? Is there something offensive about the revival of Latin?

Pope Benedict seems to be doing it, and I daresay that the Pope is in a position to make substantial improvements. Traditional communities are growing and traditional seminaries are full. It will take time, but the work of young people will return Latin to its pride of place in the Church.

If “the count” had ever mattered to Christians, then the apostles would have seen the numbers and the odds, and they would have given up trying to spread the faith.

Just because something isn’t popular does mean it isn’t great. In a world steeped in sin and with a massive aversion to all things Catholic, we should expect that the Traditional Latin Mass won’t be the most popular thing. True worship of God - and not of ourselves - is an unpopular notion.
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Great post Dauphin! 👍
 
Dauphin said:
I.
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Bishops are concerned about the level of vocations, and the number of priests being ordained. If the simple solution were to teach Latin and their seminaries would be full as a result, I am sure that would happen.Your statement is simplistic.
There isn’t one ‘full’ seminary in the United States. Check out how many young men are being ordained in any diocese in the U.S. Some diocese have years where there is no one ordained. Pick a diocese, and put it up on the Internet for a look-see. That’s your proof. Generally latin is taught in High School. If you have to teach someone Latin in the first year of Seminary, it is not going to work. Latin is not that easy.

I haven’t done this, but you could research on the Internet how many young men were ordained in any particular year.

Your Abbott
 
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