Disturbing Night At Youth Mass! Please Read

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Gregory24

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I attended a “youth mass” tonight because I didn’t attend my normal church in the morning. I am 24 years old and converted 3 years ago and am in love with the catholic church. However I was greatly upset tonight. I walked into this 6 pm mass. And there was very loud music playing by in the front of the church. When I attempted to pray I couldn’t even hear myself think and this started things badly. The sanctuary was louder and people were talking more than I have ever seen at a church it was very distracting. Most of the people there were teenagers. I noticed they were high fiving each other and even sitting on top of the pews while talking. I couldn’t believe the lack of reverence in the presence of the eucharist. The mass was supposed to start at 6 pm however we practiced all these songs until 6:15. I noticed that they didn’t follow the music in the missal but had there own, and the profession of faith was completely different. I went to church tonight w/ my wife and sister both non-catholics and I decided to leave after the second reading. I was so upset at the lack of reverence I felt was in the church. The one thing that I love about the church since I have joined is the sameness of it. No matter where I go I get the same thing. As soon as we exited the church my sister and wife asked me what was wrong and I was overwhelmed by tears, and believe me I don’t cry very often. I can’t tell you exactly what overcame of me. But I was saddened by the whole scene tonight. On the way home I tried to explain to my sister how I believe that christ is truely present in the eucharist which is located in the tabernacle and that is why I was so disturbbed to see what I saw. I don’t know if I should have left mass or not but I did. Can anyone relate to this? What do you think? ???
 
What you observed was a travesty and a liturgical abuse of the kind which takes place far too often these days. You were right to shed tears and you were right to leave.
 
Greetings,

Well, I am 68 years old, a convert, a mom and a grandmother and I think you were out of line.

Those kids and the congregation is not what makes Jesus present in the Holy Euchatist. The Holy Spirit does. Jesus was present, whether you liked what was happening or not. The Mass is not only for you, but for the entire Body of Christ. These kids, in this day and age need Jesus very badly.

I work for the Welfare Department of my county and before this worked for the Department of Child Support Services. Everyday, I see kids who need the Lord badly. I see pregnant teens, homeless kids, you name it. Kids who are abused, abandoned or just needy. I see kids who are in trouble with the law and kids needing protection. The greatest thing these kids, teenagers could have happen is an openess to Holy Mother Church and the Holy Spirit. Jesus knew how to approach them and even said “woe to you who would prevent one of these wee ones to come to me.” He was very direct and threatening about this.

These kids you talked about were in Church, not out on the street. Lots of Catholic kids are off in Evangelical Churches where they are made to feel welcome. Your kids were in the Catholic Church.

I thank the Lord there is a Catholic Parish, that is willing to take the griping and judging of parishioners to reach out to the foks needing this offer of Love and acceptance. I pray the kids in my own family would be able to find such a place. My own kids didn’t and had to go off to evangelical congregations to find that kind of Christian fellowship.

Shame on you for thinking your form of worship is the only one or the most reverant or most holy.
 
Hmmm…i posted something earlier and it seems to have disappeared?? Probably my fault.

Gregory24, what you saw was an abuse. The new music - thats probably just down to taste (i dont like the music they play where i go sometimes - doesnt bother me too much, its not rock and its not heretical)

As for the lack of reverence, yes that is wrong - im not sure on canon law, but there has to be an abuse in there somewhere. The Sacrament must always be treated with reverence and respect. One of the most beautiful things is the reverence in a catholic church, and you should report this.

robertaf, im not sure if you got the point Gregory was making. He wasnt denying the presence in the Eucharist or wanting to deny kids the Eucharist because they had a different style of music. It wasnt a different type of reverence, it was a LACK of reverence - they were high fiving, on the pews, talking loudly. EVERY church i go into (even the slightly more liberal sing songy ones, not as present in England) demands quiet, even if its only whispering, in church.

I love the way as well, that you automatically assume that because they are young, its either that or the street 🙂 Fellowship is fine, i go to the friendliest place in the world - my chaplaincy which is all for students, but hush when you enter the chapel.

You are talking about making big allowances, so they wont go back ‘to the street’ but thats where protestantism has gone, making allowances so theyll get people in. You dont let people disrespect the Eucharist just to keep them in. I was a convert and found the Real presence something very difficult to grasp. Wouldnt have been very good if i had been told, "Ah well, you dont have to believe in that, because its better you stay and dont believe, than leave.’ Slightly different but on the same basis.

All it needs is a few adults there, just to remind them who is behind that tabernacle, and they wont desert en masse, they probably just need a little reminder. This isnt a debate on whos reverence is better, its reverence or no reverence

Gregory, i suggest you speak to someone in your diocese about this - good luck my friend

Adam
 
I disagree.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. This is the same Jesus who sat down with sinners. He walked the streets, ministering to the lowest and the hurting and the lonely. This is the same Jesus who challenged the hypocrits who worried more about the law than the Spirit.

We have a Holy Father who has attended Youth Congresses and he, himself hi fived the kids. He allowed and even welcomed their kind of music.

I was at the Los Angeles Collisium when the Holy Father was here. In fact, my husband and I were selected by our Diocese to be part of the ministry trained to serve with Him if we were needed. He was not as legalistic as many folks here in these discussions.

This Holy Father, because he loves and understands our youth, welcomes them as they are. I have been there, watched this and if you do not believe it, just ask any kid or parent that have attended the youth Congresses where he was present.

Nothing Protestant in any of it. Also nothing Pharisee.
 
I have seen a lack of teenagers at a regular mass. The reason for this is that most of them attend a special teen mass. I agree with everyone who says that what happened was irreverent. Everyone, young and old, needs to understand how to act reverently and why we do it. It is great that they are going to mass, maybe for not all the right reasons, but we cannot judge their motives. They are their for God whether they realize it or not. If they go for their friends, then they probably will find God through their friends. We can only pray that those young people who don’t necessarily have the purest of intentions, will be transformed by their efforts to go to mass. We must strive to encourage future generations to fall in love with the Eucharist.
 
The sanctuary is NOT a social hall. It’s offensive to the congrgation and God. I and other true keepers of the faith want to attend the house of God with sacred music (not heretical hymnns, not rock and roll. GIve me a choir singing Gregorian chant - the official music of the Latin Rite , FOR ONCE!), sacred images, and sacred revereance without hearing about what is going on in your personal life. Save that selfish stuff for the cafeteria or whereever you can meet and discuss such topics that have no reverance to God.

Just because someone did something with our Holy Father does not mean it is approved. I believe Adoremos had an article in response to liturgical dance. The arguement was that since there were liturgical dancers with the Pontiff somewhere, then it should be allowed every where. Well, Cardinal Ainze (sp?) debunked that logic quite easily.
 
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robertaf:
I disagree.

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. This is the same Jesus who sat down with sinners. He walked the streets, ministering to the lowest and the hurting and the lonely. This is the same Jesus who challenged the hypocrits who worried more about the law than the Spirit.

We have a Holy Father who has attended Youth Congresses and he, himself hi fived the kids. He allowed and even welcomed their kind of music.

I was at the Los Angeles Collisium when the Holy Father was here. In fact, my husband and I were selected by our Diocese to be part of the ministry trained to serve with Him if we were needed. He was not as legalistic as many folks here in these discussions.

This Holy Father, because he loves and understands our youth, welcomes them as they are. I have been there, watched this and if you do not believe it, just ask any kid or parent that have attended the youth Congresses where he was present.

Nothing Protestant in any of it. Also nothing Pharisee.
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Let’s be careful in assuming that because there are strange things at a Papal Mass, then, the Holy Father thinks it is okay. He does not plan the Liturgies to which he is invited. Here’s a quote from Cardinal Arinze (head of the Congregation for Divine Worship):

*Somebody can say, “but the pope visited this country and the people danced”. A moment: Did the pope arrange it? Poor Holy Father – he comes, the people arranged. He does not know what they arranged. And somebody introduces something funny – is the pope responsible for that? Does that mean it is now approved? Did they put in on the table of the Congregation for Divine Worship? We would throw it out! If people want to dance, they know where to go. *

*Here is the link if you would like to see the whole document: *
google.ca/search?q=cache:DJF7Q6v0dwMJ:www.adoremus.org/1003Arinze.html+liturgical+dance+cardinal+arinze+adoremus&hl=en

If this is Life Teen that is being talked about, then they have been given specific liturgical directives and corrections from Rome:

lifeteen.org/girm1.asp

Sounds like there is a big problem with the youth leaders who don’t want to set standards for the youth. In my opinion, the adults are the ones who should be doing something about it.

God bless,
Debbie
 
This is great!

I am getting the feeling that there are a lot of folks here, called to youth ministry. It would appear, many of you have a heart for the youth and also a heart for the Church.

Many of you do not like the way the youth are being led and have very good ideas how to bring them into greater Catholic worship and reverence than the way that is being done, presently.

Thank you all. I am sure your local pastors will appreciate your time, as you all volunteer to use your gifts and talents in Youth Ministry. These kids need you.

In the parishes I have attended, most of the youth leaders have been overworked and under appreciated. In fact, they are often criticized. I am so happy you are all stepping forward to help in this ministry.

Blessings.
 
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robertaf:
This is great!

I am getting the feeling that there are a lot of folks here, called to youth ministry. It would appear, many of you have a heart for the youth and also a heart for the Church.

Many of you do not like the way the youth are being led and have very good ideas how to bring them into greater Catholic worship and reverence than the way that is being done, presently.

Thank you all. I am sure your local pastors will appreciate your time, as you all volunteer to use your gifts and talents in Youth Ministry. These kids need you.

In the parishes I have attended, most of the youth leaders have been overworked and under appreciated. In fact, they are often criticized. I am so happy you are all stepping forward to help in this ministry.

Blessings.
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Roberta–I hope you are not being sarcastic. (If so, please find and read the sticky about “Is sarcasm uncharitable?”) But to assume you are being serious, then yes, I for one, am very concerned about Catholic youth ministry and am definitely working to support our local Catholic youth minister and youth activities. You are right–Catholic youth ministry is a critical area needing our attention and support. God bless.
 
Greetings

If you knew me, you would know I am not being sarcastic. I abhor sarcasm.

I am a Catholic Charismatic who deeply believes in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. I can often discern when people are being called to ministry. Sometimes it happens when someone feels very uncomfortable with a situation, their own spirit is troubled.

I was not addressing everyone in the thread, as I can see you have realized. It would appear that my post brought you forward to share your own calling. I would hope that your post will bring others forward.

For the rest, I can only say that this ministry is in extreme need of help. Our youth are the future of the Church. If you are not called to this ministry, please offer up your prayers for those who are and for our kids.
 
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robertaf:
Greetings,

I thank the Lord there is a Catholic Parish, that is willing to take the griping and judging of parishioners to reach out to the foks needing this offer of Love and acceptance. I pray the kids in my own family would be able to find such a place. My own kids didn’t and had to go off to evangelical congregations to find that kind of Christian fellowship.

Shame on you for thinking your form of worship is the only one or the most reverant or most holy.
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I agree with you and posted somehting similar earlier, but apparently the computer ate it.
 
Yeah, i think we have sarcasm (the lowest form of wit) present there - if not then i apologise.

As a young man who rejected religion for years - you know what put me off the most? No one took me seriously, apart from one man - a vicar at school who set up this group. I was 13 and started to get into this group at school involving quiet prayer and reflection, i was talking to the vicar there weekly who was helping me, he took me seriously, gave me books to read and i was doing quite well. He had to leave but i carried on. About a year later, a group visited my school - a theatre group called ‘in yer face!’

Ill always remember their first line,

“Yo kids! We’re here to tell about about the G-O-D - thats right God and he is cooooool!”

And that was it…i didnt pick up a Bible again until last year. I briefly went to a Christian Union (Anglican), they were all modern and ‘youthy’ - the books there were about “Jesus - your buddy.” No-one there wanted a church, they were there for the parties, with a bit of righteousness thrown in for good measure. I didnt want a party - i wanted a religion, beliefs, morals based on this feeling about Jesus i was getting.

Just as i was about to give up i found Catholicism. I went into a church near me and didnt move for ages - it was so holy (i didnt understand why at this time) I spoke to the priest there (in a cassock - which made an impression), who gave me a reading list, good stuff like the penny catechism and introduction works to heavy topics, and funnily enough was the first person to suggest i purchased my own bible (when i was young i just had a mini-kids thing) I devoured everything, went to Mass every day. The thing i loved was how serious everyone took it, it was a religion, a belief, not a social gathering of people trying to be cool, but a firm, deep belief - that what i fell in love with.

I speak to people my age and younger (im just 20 btw) and their sentiments are exactly the same. Religion isnt cool, but young people dont want it to be! Old people trying to appeal to young people by going “Bo - lets do the Jesus rap” will fail 98% of the time. Young people want to be taken seriously - if you present something seriously, they will take it seriously. If you present a ‘groovy’ social gathering, they will treat it that way.

Can it be bewildering? Yes, but thats whats exciting, dont make it like an every day event. My confirmation was amazing - i was quivering like a leaf as i knelt and took my first communion, but it felt so holy, and all my young smartly dressed friends were there, - thats what made it a ‘youth’ mass. It would have been awful if there had been some bloke rocking on, “YYYEEHH Adams being confirrrrmmeedd!!” and all my mates were in scruffy clothing.

So in conclusion to this ramble, you can be as sarcastic as you want thats fine, but everyone makes a point. They arent fuddy duddys (heck, im certainly not) but if young people want to me treated like adults (which they do) then they have to have the same standards as adults.

One final thing, two days ago i took a friend of mine into my Church (she was one of the people who had been turned off by all the ‘Yo yo’ business), it was the middle of mass, we stood near the back - it was dark but candlelight shone round the church, and there was silence (post-communion). She saw all the statues and the antiquity of the place, smell on incense burning and the atmosphere. Then the congregation started to chant my favourite chant/song with no music, “Oh Sacrament Divine”, slow and almost gregorian-esque. She was stunned - she loved it and thought it was one of the most beautiful things shes seen, and i hope shell come again. It made 1000x more impact than anything else would.

Sorry its a ramble but this is close to my heart, and its not a surprise some older people are suspicous of young people in services with some of the crazy irreverent malarky going on.

Adam
 
Adam S:
Yeah, i think we have sarcasm (the lowest form of wit) present there - if not then i apologise. …Adam
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I accept your apology. I said before, this is not sarcasm.

Being the mother of two sons and the grandmother of 4, I also have my heart in Youth Ministry.

I am also the God Mother (Sponsor) to 65 converts and have taught Religion for Baptism, first Communion and Confirmation. I was a Religious Ed teacher in Southern California and taught the Confirmation classes in our Diocese when the kids needed to be a junior in High School.

I was also was a prayer leader for several years at our Confirmation Retreat for High School kids, numbering over 200.

Do you really think I would bring sarcasm into this thread?

For 30 years, I was also a Spiritual Counselor for the Church. I counseled families and individuals in most spiritual and family situations. I have had a lifetime background where families and youth in the Church are concerned.

Do you really think I would bring sarcasm into this thread?
Do you? Why do you think I would do that. I have given most of my life to this ministry.
 
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krazykatlady:
What you observed was a travesty and a liturgical abuse of the kind which takes place far too often these days. You were right to shed tears and you were right to leave.
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I agree. It was not probably a valid mass either. BLAME the PASTOR.
 
Greg,
I can’t really speak to the validity of the Mass you saw, but I can understand your distress.
I also attended the Lifeteen Mass at my parrish tonight (for the 2nd time) and only because I wanted to take communion and botched my fast this morning. The Mass itself and the kids weren’t bad at all, but I really don’t get into much of the music. It just lacks something…reverence, majesty, power,…I don’t know. I love rock music (I’m 52) but this doesn’t even qualify. It’s just personal taste I think …

I did find myself praying for a kid a couple of pews in front of me who just didn’t seem too happy and didn’t go to communion. I shared a look w/my wife and then made the trip over to bid him Peace. He looked pretty bad, so I offered my communion for him and all my special intentions.

This may not help much, but I stay as focused as possible on the Eucharist as I can, which sounds like it may have been impossible for you to do.

Have you thought of going to your pastor and asking about that Mass. He can’t do anything about things that he may not know about. Our pastor celebrated the mass tonight and did a great job. Just don’t let it wreck ya. What we have is too beautiful & real & nothing is worth letting that get away…ever.

Pax vobiscum.
 
I went to one lifeteen Mass and avoid them like the plague. However, none of us here know that it was an invalid Mass, even the poster, since he did not stay. As to lack of reverence, the youth I witnessed at lifeteen were extremely reverent during the Eucharistic liturgy. I prefer silence before Mass, but it is not a liturgical abuse to practice the music prior to Mass.

I do not like Lifeteen, so I do not go. I still can appreciate the diversity of our faith and applaud those priest who reach out to the young people of today, along with adults like robertaf.

But next time I **must **go, I’ll take ear plugs.
 
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Gregory24:
I noticed that they didn’t follow the music in the missal but had there own, and the profession of faith was completely different. I went to church tonight w/ my wife and sister both non-catholics and I decided to leave after the second reading. I was so upset at the lack of reverence I felt was in the church. … I don’t know if I should have left mass or not but I did. Can anyone relate to this? What do you think? ???
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I think you don’t like this style of worship, and you will be much happer at a different Mass, but is you Sunday obligation about you being happy at Mass? Certainly it would be better if you could be at a Mass you prefer, but I don’t think it is a good idea to let your preferences get in the way of your Sunday Mass obligation. If there was no other Mass, it probably would have been better to have just stayed and attended Mass. I would speak to my confessor about this.
M:
I agree. It was not probably a valid mass either. BLAME the PASTOR
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By what authority do you say this? The principle parts of the Mass (not certain-maybe just the Consecration?) make the Mass valid, certainly not the Music or the conduct of the congregation.
 
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robertaf:
I accept your apology. I said before, this is not sarcasm.

Being the mother of two sons and the grandmother of 4, I also have my heart in Youth Ministry.

I am also the God Mother (Sponsor) to 65 converts and have taught Religion for Baptism, first Communion and Confirmation. I was a Religious Ed teacher in Southern California and taught the Confirmation classes in our Diocese when the kids needed to be a junior in High School.

I was also was a prayer leader for several years at our Confirmation Retreat for High School kids, numbering over 200.

Do you really think I would bring sarcasm into this thread?

For 30 years, I was also a Spiritual Counselor for the Church. I counseled families and individuals in most spiritual and family situations. I have had a lifetime background where families and youth in the Church are concerned.

Do you really think I would bring sarcasm into this thread?
Do you? Why do you think I would do that. I have given most of my life to this ministry.
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Well, i dont know who you are, your post sounded pretty sarcastic to me, and to someone else as well. Its difficult to say what someones saying over a forum - you must know that.

Also, just because you’ve done a lot with the Church doesnt mean you arent sarcastic, in fact it has no relevance whatsoever, so why throw all the things you’ve done at me? We were having a debate about what is needed from a youth mass, not throwing credentials at each other.

Anyway, back to my original post, since you have all this experience (and you are American i presume) could you tell me if you have encountered similar to what i have found? It would be interesting to hear an older (no offense intended :)) opinion from a different country on my views

Cheers

Adam
 
iniviting people who have legitimate criticisms about how our youth are being catechized to participate in youth ministry and catechesis is not sarcasm, it is invitation. If the parents of the teens do not take them to Mass, it is up to the other adults of the parish to model reverence and proper participation. If the adults aren’t there, who are the kids going to model except each other? Also made an earlier reply that disappeared, but maybe this post is on multiple threads.
 
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