rod of iron:
Yes, you are correct. My church is not only 2000 years old. My church was established before the formation of the world. I belong to the Church of the Firstborn. This Church of the Firstborn is the church that Jesus established in the beginning. That church is spiritual first. It continues spiritually whether or not it is physically upon the Earth. It appear that the Catholic church is just physical. This is what makes the Catholic church a man-made church.
I see you are appealing to the eternal claim. Ireneaus too spoke of the Catholic Church as being eternal. As you claim your Church is eternal, that would mean eternal truths reside in it. The question is, does you church change doctrines? If so they are no eternal. For the Faith, which are embodied in the doctrines, are to be eternal yet if you change doctrines then it is not eternal. The Catholic Church does not change doctrines. Furthermore, you say since the Catholic Church is physical it is not the true church, how gnostic. Is physical some how bad? Are we not physical as well as spiritual? Was not Christ a body? And is the Church not the Body of Christ himself? As a body, we are physical and spiritual. Our essence never changes, for it is eternal.
rod of iron:
The Catholic church as it exists is the successor of the Roman Empire. The Catholic church adopted the hierarchical structure of the Roman Empire and used its power to persecute all that opposed the Catholic church for many, many centuries. The church of Jesus Christ does not persecute. That is one way you can tell a fraud. If a church persecutes others who do not believe like them, the church is not Christ’s church. The Catholic church has such a track record of persecution. This record can be seen in the Inquisition and the Crusades. The Catholic church spent centuries trying to force non-Catholics into believing what the Catholic church taught. Christ’s church does not force people to believe. Forcing others to bellieve like you and taking away their agency are ploys of the devil. Since the Catholic church has this track record of forcing people to believe its doctrines and comply to them, it cannot be the church that Jesus established on the Earth.
You seem to be confusing infallibility and impeccability. When Catholics claim the Church is infallible, that means she can define doctrines that are free in error, this does not mean she is perfect. Christ said his followers would be a mixture of good and bad. In revelations it talks about how Christ sacrificed the Church to wash her clean, why would she need to be washed clean if she was already clean, i.e. without sin? I also imagine you would be hard pressed to find a group that is innocent of anything. The fact of the matter remains, the Church is composed of sinners and saints. As unfortunate as it may be that sinners get into the hands of power, it is a fact of life, one that Jesus himself predicted.
Futhermore, when you assume the “Great Apostasy” theory, it is making Jesus look like a fool. For he had for a thousand and some odd years confused because he was a horrible teacher. A good teacher has his students understand him. However, opponents who spout this theory have us to believe Jesus was horrible teacher because people were misled by him until centuires later someone finds the gnosis, or hidden truth. How arrogant it is too assume everyone who came before you was too stupid to figure out what Jesus meant until a couple centuries ago.
Yet Jesus was a good teacher, because his followers knew what he meant and continued it on til the present day in the Catholic Church, which may have made mistakes in the past but Christ did not claim his followers would be perfect here on earth.
, so these verses could not possibly be reffering to it.
