Divorce by Text Message

[TheOldOne]

Quote:
In practice Islamic family life is far more rigid and totalitarian than any westerner can likely imagine.

Have you witnessed it? Or from what experience do you actually speak?​

Yes I have experienced it. I was Muslim for over a decade and married into a muslim family. My wife is still muslim.

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Quote from Sister Amy:

Among my intimate acquaintance I know several women who have been divorced. One of my very good friends has in fact been divorced twice–both times the divorce was initiated by her (for non-trivial reasons, I might add. First for taking a second wife, and second for cheating.)

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Are you an American Muslim? From my understanding divorce is growing rampant among the rather tiny American muslim community. However among the rest in my experience it is quite unusual.​

Quote from sister Amy:
BTW did you know that if a man gives his wife a triple divorce in the heat of an argument they are supposed to immediately and irrevocably separate. Regardless of whether or not he really meant it? Ihave often wondered how many Muslim couples are “living in sin”.

This actually isn’t true. What happened shortly after the death of Muhammad (saaws) the people were doing this so trivially–in the heat of an argument making a “triple divorce.” It is only considered one divorce, but the Ruler at that time decided that these people who were doing it needed to take it seriously, and so he made the divorce irrevocable for them because they weren’t being serious. But most scholars agree that it is only one divorce. And there is still a waiting period–always a waiting per

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It is true among the followers of the Hanafi madhab. I dont know about the others.

 

[dessert]

I just wanted to point out something misleading in the original post.

A woman does not have to prove a real “inadequacy” in her husband to get a divorce. The Prophet Muhammad (saaws) was willing to grant a woman a divorce just because she thought her husband was ugly.

Women’s rights.

You said it! Every husband should be a little bit afraid of his wife:thumbsup:

 

[Deconi]

You said it! Every husband should be a little bit afraid of his wife:thumbsup:

No husband should fear his wife…but every husband knows, openly or secretly, he dreads her wrath!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Uh, how tragic. I guess that’s what happens when you have an Islamic culture, which looks down on women, and basically makes them property of men.

No wonder so many of the converts from Islam to Christianity are women.

How come most of the converts to Islam from Christianity are women? Like 3/4 of them. Hm?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Quote:
In practice Islamic family life is far more rigid and totalitarian than any westerner can likely imagine.

Have you witnessed it? Or from what experience do you actually speak?​

Yes I have experienced it. I was Muslim for over a decade and married into a muslim family. My wife is still muslim.

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Thanks for answering–that’s pretty interesting. I don’t deny that certain cultures tend to have a rigid/totalitarian (I prefer the term patriarchal actually) family tradition. But that as you should know isn’t really because of Islam. We know about the women of Medina who used to talk back to their husbands and so forth.

Quote from Sister Amy:

Among my intimate acquaintance I know several women who have been divorced. One of my very good friends has in fact been divorced twice–both times the divorce was initiated by her (for non-trivial reasons, I might add. First for taking a second wife, and second for cheating.)

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Are you an American Muslim? From my understanding divorce is growing rampant among the rather tiny American muslim community. However among the rest in my experience it is quite unusual.​

Yep, I am an American Muslim, and even as I was writing it I began to find it very very strange at how many divorced people I know. Frankly it just seemed to me to be really weird! So running rampant? Dunno about that, but it definitely happens. Therefore it wouldn’t be correct to say that Muslim practically never get divorced.

I think there is this idea in American culture to stand up for yourself, never back down, never compromise, that teaches people to be really selfish, even in marriage. Which makes people often seek divorce instead of counseling–although Islamically, they are supposed to try counseling before resorting to divorce.

At any rate, women are certainly allowed to divorce their husbands, and I know of women overseas who have divorced their husbands as well, including an Egyptian couple living in Saudi Arabia–she managed to divorce him. Personally I think she should have tried counseling first. But I only say it to prove the point that it does happen. And given my experience doesn’t seem to be an exceptionally rare occurrence either.

Quote from sister Amy:
BTW did you know that if a man gives his wife a triple divorce in the heat of an argument they are supposed to immediately and irrevocably separate. Regardless of whether or not he really meant it? Ihave often wondered how many Muslim couples are “living in sin”.

This actually isn’t true. What happened shortly after the death of Muhammad (saaws) the people were doing this so trivially–in the heat of an argument making a “triple divorce.” It is only considered one divorce, but the Ruler at that time decided that these people who were doing it needed to take it seriously, and so he made the divorce irrevocable for them because they weren’t being serious. But most scholars agree that it is only one divorce. And there is still a waiting period–always a waiting per

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It is true among the followers of the Hanafi madhab. I dont know about the others.

Are you sure? I wouldn’t be surprised if it is one opinion in the Hanafi school but I doubt it would be the majority opinion. I know it’s certainly not the Hanbali opinion. It’s based upon a fatwa of 'Umar but from my understanding it was limited to that time and place specifically because the people were abusing it. The way that the Qur’an and authentic Sunnah have established divorce proceedings requires these three chances. Even saying “I divorce you” three times or a hundred times at once is only valid for one divorce, followed by a 3-month (or so) 'iddah period wherein they can reconcile.

Better to avoid innovations in the deen.

 

[inJESUS]

Harshness of the heart if someone chooses to do that.

Not because they are allowed to.

 

[inJESUS]

You are mistaken. A woman cannot be married without her consent–thus said the Messenger of Allah.

unlesss she is not of an age that permits her to give an opinion and the age is determined by the culture of the country in question.

 

[ralphinal]

You are mistaken. A woman cannot be married without her consent–thus said the Messenger of Allah.

Fathers are not supposed to marry their daughters to much older men–if it happens it’s certainly an exception and not the rule.

Moreover, if a woman does not give her consent the marriage can be annulled or she can be divorced if she’s not happy. There is a case of a woman coming to Muhammad to say that she was married without giving her consent, and he offered to divorce her. She actually opted to stay in the marriage, but she was given that choice because she didn’t have a say in getting married (which is wrong.)

But Islam does not say what that age is. Islam says everything else from what to eat and where to when to pray and how to go to the bathroom without facing a certain way, yet Allah did not say when a child is an adult. I am so lost here.

This means that some of the most mysogenistic countries in the world decide when a woman can consent to be married. I also wonder what the reprocussions are if a girl says no.

 

[Sister_Amy]

they have a harsh heart for following a divine command?

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi Amy,
I have a question for you, or other muslims. Its about relationships, so i guess asking here wont take it off topic.
I notice in your signature you have:

The best of you are those who are best to their wives. - Prophet Muhammad

Now, he mentions the word ‘wives’.
Now by this statement, do you think muhammed meant for men to have multiple ‘wives’ or just the one wife?
After all, if in islam it was only meant to be one wife, he would have said ‘wife’ wouldnt he?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ralph:

**Umar ibn Al-Khattab once said: “Do not force your young girls to marry an ugly man, for they also love what you love.” **

Where does that come from?

When people try to abuse Islam, they are trying to abuse it. It’s that simple. We don’t need to justify it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Hi Amy,
I have a question for you, or other muslims. Its about relationships, so i guess asking here wont take it off topic.
I notice in your signature you have:

The best of you are those who are best to their wives. - Prophet Muhammad

Now, he mentions the word ‘wives’.
Now by this statement, do you think muhammed meant for men to have multiple ‘wives’ or just the one wife?
After all, if in islam it was only meant to be one wife, he would have said ‘wife’ wouldnt he?

Grammatically it is plural ‘wives’ because ‘those’ is plural and ‘their’ is plural. So plural ‘wives’ is grammatically correct. It would be incorrect to say ‘their wife.’

The best of you (plural) are those (plural) who are best to their (plural) wives (plural.)

Note that it doesn’t say the best to his wives.

The norm in Islam is one husband, and one wife. While having more than one wife is permissible (with restrictions) it is an exception to the norm.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;4079747:

When is anyone ever COMMANDED to get divorced?

Seriously.

Not everything that is allowed (halal) is mandated (fard.)

lAmy, of course am not saying you are commanded, but you are allowed…if a woman decides to divorce her husband because she seems him handsome no more, is it haram? no it is halal…Alllah will not punish her for a choice He gave her…it is this “practicality” that leads to harshness of hearts…in other words, Allah’s order is a gate to harshness of hearts…after all, it’s her right…

lately there was a turkish series on tv about a family’s life in which there is a handsome man treating his wife very nicely ecc,…in other words, perfect love story…the result? many DIVORCE cases in different Islamic countries including SA that some sheikh want to give a fatwa against the episodes…these women see a great handsome man treating his spouse in an ideal manner so they stop and think " why not me" and they ask for divorce…it is their right no?after all they have the divine right to divorce their ugly, not so perfect husbands…human’s right and practicality…

 

[dolphinlove]

Grammatically it is plural ‘wives’ because ‘those’ is plural and ‘their’ is plural. So plural ‘wives’ is grammatically correct. It would be incorrect to say ‘their wife.’

The best of you (plural) are those (plural) who are best to their (plural) wives (plural.)

Note that it doesn’t say the best to his wives.

The norm in Islam is one husband, and one wife. While having more than one wife is permissible (with restrictions) it is an exception to the norm.

Yes i know the rules about marriage in Islam, and yes, you got in before i started on the ‘theirs’ and ‘his’…
Anyway, i do have other questions, but will start another thread about this.

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph:

**Umar ibn Al-Khattab once said: “Do not force your young girls to marry an ugly man, for they also love what you love.” **

Where does that come from?

When people try to abuse Islam, they are trying to abuse it. It’s that simple. We don’t need to justify it.

I see what you are saying. We see it in every discussion we have. There is Islam and there is that which is practiced by most Muslims, and they may not be the same. I have no issue with saying that if you don’t.

Anyway, that verse does say “force.” Can a man force his daughter to marry a handsome man?