Divorce rate in NFP couples

[maryfullofgrace]

vluvski:

Not trying to be confrontational here, just trying to see what common sense you have applied to the marital union to conclude that it is not indissoluble. Perhaps we can dispel some of your misconceptions about marriage and help you understand why the Catholic Church teaches that it is an indissoluble bond.

.

For my screenname…I was using a play on my own name…but anyway.

I think that from growing up I have seen so many marriages where one or both of the spouses (most often it is the husband) is not the same person that took the oath of marriage and by this I mean that that person dis-honored the pledge that they made on their wedding day in front of their spouse and the priest. When the spouse does not abide by the oath (ex…is unfaithful) I think that …not sure what the right word is…but the holiness of that bond is dissolved because the two people that entered the marriage are no longer present. One chose to change and go against the vows,

One has made the choice to change and I think that means the contract has been breached.

Does that make sense?

I guess I don’t understand why the one that has been the victim can not leave the marriage if the contract that they “signed on to” was not respected by the other spouse.

 

[mvinca]

maryfullofgrace:

For my screenname…I was using a play on my own name…but anyway.

I think that from growing up I have seen so many marriages where one or both of the spouses (most often it is the husband) is not the same person that took the oath of marriage and by this I mean that that person dis-honored the pledge that they made on their wedding day in front of their spouse and the priest. When the spouse does not abide by the oath (ex…is unfaithful) I think that …not sure what the right word is…but the holiness of that bond is dissolved because the two people that entered the marriage are no longer present. One chose to change and go against the vows,

One has made the choice to change and I think that means the contract has been breached.

Does that make sense?

I guess I don’t understand why the one that has been the victim can not leave the marriage if the contract that they “signed on to” was not respected by the other spouse.

I only half disagree with you. Part of what you say is true, and is like the logic that the church uses to say a marriage never existed (annulment). But your language treats marriage as a contract, which I disagree with. Marriage is a covenant, and doesn’t imply that if you keep up your end of the bargain, then I’ll keep mine. It is an “I’ll keep my end no matter what, whether you do or not.” As a result, there is an area where a contract would be dissolved, but a covenant wouldn’t. I would argue the majority of divorces are in this area.

 

[just5kids]

Maree:

…we would love for Church teaching to change, but since it has not, we remain faithful to it.

I applaud you for your obedience. There was a time I disagreed with the Church’s teaching on contraception but disobeyed. I thought I knew better than the “outdated” Church. As I have grown older, however, I have found out that the Church has far greater wisdom than I, that She always has my best interest at hear, and that best interest always equates to my eternal salvation. And as I have grown as a Catholic, I have read more, I have read the Church’s “why” against contraception. I hope you will do the same. For even if the Church were to “change” this teaching, I could not allow myself to be objectified by my husband or vice-versa, I could not accept any less than my husband’s total self-giving, nor would I want to give him less than mine in our most intimate act. I would never want to say “no” to God, who is always there with us in our most intimate moments, who designed the marital embrace for procreation as well and unification, and without whom a child cannot be conceived.

 

[siamesecat]

maryfullofgrace:

For my screenname…I was using a play on my own name…but anyway.

I think that from growing up I have seen so many marriages where one or both of the spouses (most often it is the husband) is not the same person that took the oath of marriage and by this I mean that that person dis-honored the pledge that they made on their wedding day in front of their spouse and the priest. When the spouse does not abide by the oath (ex…is unfaithful) I think that …not sure what the right word is…but the holiness of that bond is dissolved because the two people that entered the marriage are no longer present. One chose to change and go against the vows,

One has made the choice to change and I think that means the contract has been breached.

Does that make sense?

I guess I don’t understand why the one that has been the victim can not leave the marriage if the contract that they “signed on to” was not respected by the other spouse.

That’s well said. I understand the remarriage teaching, but to me it still doesn’t really make sense. If you’re very in love with your spouse, but he dies, you’re free to marry another person although you have another spouse in Heaven that you love? Yet you can divorce legally which is ok and yet you are still married forever in the Church, so wouldn’t divorce be a breaking of the marriage vows? You promised to love and cherish this person forever, if you essentially never see your spouse again and make no effort to reconnect this isn’t a sin towards your marriage? If you’re married forever, wouldn’t giving up on your spouse be a sin?

 

[vluvski]

maryfullofgrace:

When the spouse does not abide by the oath (ex…is unfaithful) I think that …not sure what the right word is…but the holiness of that bond is dissolved because the two people that entered the marriage are no longer present.

I guess I don’t understand why the one that has been the victim can not leave the marriage if the contract that they “signed on to” was not respected by the other spouse.

Another poster has already addressed one misunderstanding that will not be cleared up in a single day. The difference between a covenant and a contract is miniscule in some situations and enormous in others.

Infidelity, as a matter of fact, is typically sufficient reason to divorce but not always to grant an anullment freeing both parties to remarry. Most priests would encourage the couple to try before calling it quits, but would not fault them for deciding to live separately. If a person is being truly victimized as a result of their marriage, the Catholic Church actually encourages that person to get out of the situation. You can read thread after heartbreaking thread of people who put forth their best effort to honor their vows despite their spouse’s infidelity, addiction, or abuse, and most of them share that even the most villianous spouse is difficult to leave.

Consider Jesus’ role as the bridegroom of the Church. The Church, the body, as in we the members, fail Jesus time and again, yet he remained loyal to His bride unto death. The union between Jesus and His bride the Church did not end when Judas, one of His best friends, betrayed Him. It did not end when Peter denied him three times. And it doesn’t end or even falter each and every time one of us commits a sin.

While the sanctity of that union might be betrayed by our sins, the sanctimonious union isn’t itself broken.

Claiming that people ought to be allowed to dissolve their marriage or establish it from the get-go as a temporary contract on the grounds that people can change essentially says someone should receive permission to “divide that which God has united” because free will gives them the ability to act contrary to their vows. A similar argument would be that people should be allowed to receive Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin because people have done it in the past and will continue to do so. God has not robbed us of the sacrament even knowing it would be abused, so it is our responsibility not to rob one another of the holiness and permanence of marriage despite the fact that it will also be abused.

 

[maryfullofgrace]

Another Question:

What if one spouse is just horrible and treats the other in ways that are just unbarable. If that spouse (the victim) moves out and separates can he/she have another relationship?

 

[buffalo]

maryfullofgrace:

Another Question:

What if one spouse is just horrible and treats the other in ways that are just unbarable. If that spouse (the victim) moves out and separates can he/she have another relationship?

They cannot enjoy the same marital privileges in that case.

 

[vluvski]

maryfullofgrace:

Another Question:

What if one spouse is just horrible and treats the other in ways that are just unbarable. If that spouse (the victim) moves out and separates can he/she have another relationship?

While enjoying the company of the opposite sex in non-sexual, friendly ways is permissible for this person, there is a fine line where the victimized ex-spouse begins to develop an emotional attachment or the other person desires things to progress where they cannot go.

In other words, it is ok to form strong friendships but the person must be careful to guard against something that could be misconstrued as dating, since the primary purpose of dating/romantic relationships is to discern marriage.

I know this sounds terribly sad and unfair for the “victim” party. God didn’t promise us happiness and fairness in this life, though.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

maryfullofgrace:

Another Question:

What if one spouse is just horrible and treats the other in ways that are just unbarable. If that spouse (the victim) moves out and separates can he/she have another relationship?

Another romantice relationship? No. Basically, a valid marriage is valid regardless of how the people involved treat each other and regardless if they live together. The victim is still married, regardless of where his or her spouse is, hence for a new relationship to be appropriate it has to be a new relationship that would be appropriate for a married person to have outside of marriage (eg no romantic relationships). We cannot pretend something that is there (marriage) isn’t there out of pity etc. One thing, though, the Church does ask for everyone to help and support people that may find themselves in these kind of situations since it is indeed sad and difficult for the victim.

 

[tjm190]

You need to be careful with statistics. No one’s done a great study of the effect of NFP on divorce rates, but I’d love to see one!

Exactly- the only survey I’ve seen is little better than “well I know lots of couples that use NFP and none of them have divorced”