Divorce/Remarriage question for evangelicals

[graceandglory]

Hi, I go to a Calvary Chapel and your husband is doing wrong.He had no grounds for divorce and although I believe unfaithfulness is grounds for divorce I would not feel comfortable to remarry. We study the Bible chapter by chapter verse by verse and sometime topically. So if he listens in church he knows he is doing wrong. If you worry what they are being taught when he takes them to his church you might talk to the pastors to find out. I think kids pay more attention to how we live than what we say. You just keep being the good example for them.

The assistant pastor at his CC Church is divorced and remarried. I knew many people “in ministry” there who were divorced and remarried.

When I addressed things to the pastor while I was married, he had us go to marriage counseling outside of the church. That’s how they dealt with marriage problems. It feels to me as if by sending a couple outside the church for “counseling,” they are sort of “washing their hands” of it.

What do you think I would gain if I asked the pastor today?

 

[vocatio]

That’s just scandalous and the church leaders are going way to far with the annulment process. It’s just simple abuse and they have no business being in ministry at such a high level. However, the Church leaders allow it, it’s their priveliege and on their head, not mine.

As far as you having and issue. Let me put it this way. You are divorced, I assume he cheated on you. That means that even if you were divorced for “no fault” then he was still bound to you, like it or not. The Church has to do discovery no matter what faith your in. If there is a Catholic involved without a valid marriage, then that is different because we’re not in a democracy here. Even with a civil divorce you husband in my previous faith would be held bound to his marriage vows to you. Unless someone died or cheated. Assuming he cheated, then he sinned first and thus releases you, but not him. It’s very strict, but there are always folks that seem to circumvent the rules and I left a congregation that allowed it with an elder. If a man is divorced even for just cause, he is not allowed by scripture to be an elder or deacon. Ministers are different but still basicall fall under that same to avoid scrutiny. That’s Church of Christ - note not Mormon or some other religion, just “church of Christ”. Alexander Campbell church restoration movement.

Now Baptists differ from congregation to congregation, just like any other Protestant faith. There are lots of remarraiges in there as well.

And just for knowledge sake on your part - not your children - the Catholic definition is the only one you really need to worry about. As far as your children are concerned, pray for them, take them to mass and CCD. Get them involved in youth groups. That is the best way to help them. Pay close attention to what your husband tries to poison their minds with but be gentle with correction. Trust me, being the son in 2 separate divorces… truth will prevail. Be the good guy for your children’s sake and place them in the care of the Blessed Mother who will nurture them to Christ. I adopted Jesus, Marry and Joseph as my adopted family in high school. That’s how deeply hurt I was during the second divorce. Had I grown up in a more stable home, I still believe that I’d have finished the seminary even through some of the bad moments.
Praying for you.

 

[graceandglory]

Trust me, being the son in 2 separate divorces… truth will prevail. Be the good guy for your children’s sake and place them in the care of the Blessed Mother who will nurture them to Christ. I adopted Jesus, Marry and Joseph as my adopted family in high school.
Praying for you.

Thank you, vocatio. It seems as if this is really what the Lord is trying to teach me. To trust in Him, and His protection over my children. Others in this thread have said the same thing.Thank you for sharing your own personal story. I really need to hear stories like that.

I thank you all for spending time trying to respond to my posts.

I am still interested in hearing more “Sola Scripture” views on divorce and remarriage in the Bible.

 

[SteveLy]

I don’t want to minimize the harm which has occurred, but it sounds like you are having a difficult time forgiving him and finding reasons to keep the resentment. I hope you find peace.

 

[HannahLisa]

It seems to me that many Protestant denominations really don’t pay much attention to divorce and remarriage. While the Bible is pretty clear that it’s not okay, people tend to ignore that and not bring it up.

I’m basically sola scriptura, and I do not think divorce is okay. Though, if someone was in an abusive marriage I have a really, really hard time condemning them for divorcing and later being remarried.

In the OP’s case, I think it’s pretty clear that that was not the case and if either of them get into another relationship it’s simply sin – going by the information provided and a sola scriptura viewpoint. Whether it is treated that way or not by anyone around the people involved is another thing entirely.

 

[graceandglory]

I don’t want to minimize the harm which has occurred, but it sounds like you are having a difficult time forgiving him and finding reasons to keep the resentment. I hope you find peace.

Actually, I really don’t care. I don’t have hard feelings for him, except that he is taking my children to church with him several times a month and I want to know what they are being taught about divorce and remarriage from his perspective. What I call adultery, he says is none of my business. What I see is scandalous, he doesn’t have a concept of.

I have found peace in my own life, and am happily moving on. I’m trying to be as clear as I can. I’m doing my best to keep reiterating my original question. I am not getting many protestant evangelical responses in this thread however.

The most important thing in my life is to get my children to heaven. What I see as hypocrisy in their dad I fear could really hurt them. I’m afraid that they will follow his example and embrace sin in their lives when they get older, because it’s so much easier than being a chaste single person.

To be honest, one of my hobbies is Church teaching on the Sacrament of Marriage, and chastity, and I have led a study group at my church of the Theology of the Body. I know and understand the Catholic teaching of Marriage. I continue to study the Theology of the Body and actually set up tables at conferences to promote it locally. I know what went wrong and have made my peace with what happened to me personally in my own life when I left the church and married a protestant.

What I don’t understand is the protestant views of marriage, divorce, and remarriage. So I started this thread in the hopes of learning more of the evangelical/pentecostal perspective.

When I was a sola scriptura protestant, I believed in only one interpretation of the scriptures I have earlier quoted. Apparently, it seems like I was in the minority. It seems that in practice, not everyone who says they believe what the bible teaches, actually does.

 

[graceandglory]

It seems to me that many Protestant denominations really don’t pay much attention to divorce and remarriage. While the Bible is pretty clear that it’s not okay, people tend to ignore that and not bring it up.

I’m basically sola scriptura, and I do not think divorce is okay. Though, if someone was in an abusive marriage I have a really, really hard time condemning them for divorcing and later being remarried.
.

Thank you HannahLisa:
That is the kind of response I was hoping to hear more of. A sola scriptura personal viewpoint.

What you have said, is what I experienced in my 19 years as an evangelical believer. Even then, when I heard about it, it would bother me. But then, who am I? Just an ordinary pew-sitter. (and cradle Catholic)

Thanks for your response. I enjoy your signature line.

Probably what can be said of my personal situation is the we divorced because of “irreconcilable differences.” There was no adultery. He just “wasn’t that into me.”

 

[Cleopas]

I’m a Non-denominational Evangelical Pastor. I admit that Protestants have varied opinions on the subject of Divorce, notwithstanding remarriage. I don;t think you can get a unified statement of position that is the “Protestant Position.” IT would depend on the sect and/or traditional background of the protestants in question for the most part.

That said, I personally (please note I said personally) believe that the NT teaches again ts divorce and remarriage. However I believe the NT permits divorce WITHOUT remarriage in some cases (i.e. unfaithfulness to the purity of the marriage bed, desertion or otherwise being unwilling to dwell as one spouse should with the other [viz. physical abuse or harm, etc.]).

It seems that remarriage is only permitted if one’s spouse dies, even if divorced.

However, should one marry someone who is technically still married to someone else it stands to reason they would have the right to both divorce and remarry, seeing as they were not every truly joined by God in the first place.

However their is a strong argument from the the NT passages on which I base this position that permitting divorce means a dissolution of the marriage and inherently allows remarriage as well. I have a hard time believing that to be the most accurate position. Yet, I admit a good case can also be made for it from the text.

Outside of that, I do not know how so many varied ideas and seemingly blatant contradictory teachings and practices have become commonplace among protestant believers.

 

[graceandglory]

However, should one marry someone who is technically still married to someone else it stands to reason they would have the right to both divorce and remarry, seeing as they were not every truly joined by God in the first place.

However their is a strong argument from the the NT passages on which I base this position that** permitting divorce means a dissolution of the marriage and inherently allows remarriage as well**. I have a hard time believing that to be the most accurate position. Yet, I admit a good case can also be made for it from the text.

Dear Cleopas:

THANK YOU for your response. This is helping me understand.
To me it seems that the words I bolded in your post seem to go against what Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount: Matthew 5:9, 32.

**Matthew 9 **And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

32 But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting the cause of fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

 

[J_C]

graceandglory, a question. If you have managing conservator custody of your children, do you not have authority to determine their religious upbringing? If so it would seem that you would be within your legal right to refuse permission for them to attend any but the church of your choice. There seems little doubt that a judge would see the wisdom of not confusing youngsters by being yanked back and forth from religion to religion.

 

[graceandglory]

graceandglory, a question. If you have managing conservator custody of your children, do you not have authority to determine their religious upbringing? If so it would seem that you would be within your legal right to refuse permission for them to attend any but the church of your choice. There seems little doubt that a judge would see the wisdom of not confusing youngsters by being yanked back and forth from religion to religion.

My state is a joint custody state.
Half the weekends are his.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”

I’ve been told that this means that judges can not make a decision respecting one religion over another.

Which brings up an interesting situation. My boys turn 14 soon. They will want to be practicing Catholics on their dad’s weekends. They will want to go to Mass. I told them that there’s really nothing we can do until they turn 14. At age 14, they have a bit more responsibilities as Catholics. I don’t know how that will all work out.

 

[Cleopas]

Dear Cleopas:

THANK YOU for your response. This is helping me understand.
To me it seems that the words I bolded in your post seem to go against what Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount: Matthew 5:9, 32.

I agree with your sentiments regarding the teaching of Christ. He is against divorce and against remarriage while one’s spouse lives.

Please allow me to clarify,

I do not believe the Scripture permits divorce and remarriage from one’s spouse. However, I do believe it permits divorce (but NOT remarriage) in some cases.

Likewise, those who may have married someone divorced from their proper living spouse would be eligible to divorce and remarry since they were never truly joined in marriage by God anyhow.

 

[J_C]

My state is a joint custody state.
Half the weekends are his.

wow, strange way to do things. in my state when I got divorced, one party was identified as the managing conservator, the other the possessory conservator, meaning that the managing conservator had responsibility and authority to make all decisions respecting health and welfare. that person set the times and places and circumstances of all visitation by the possessory conservator (must be reasonable or the judge would step in). though this was never an issue for us, i assume that the managing conservator also made decisions regarding religious worship, since he/she had custody most of the time, and decided where the children went to school, what kinds of after school activities they had, etc etc.

I’ve been told that this means that judges can not make a decision respecting one religion over another.

I can certainly understand that! but if one parent had authority to decide religion then the other one would not be able to take the children to any religious activity not approved by the managing parent.

Which brings up an interesting situation. My boys turn 14 soon. They will want to be practicing Catholics on their dad’s weekends. They will want to go to Mass. I told them that there’s really nothing we can do until they turn 14. At age 14, they have a bit more responsibilities as Catholics. I don’t know how that will all work out.

yeah, 14 is still pretty tender. Are they twins? tough situation for them, and for you. Good for them though when they have authority to do what they want and will want to please their mom, i expect.

 

[graceandglory]

I agree with your sentiments regarding the teaching of Christ. He is against divorce and against remarriage while one’s spouse lives.

Please allow me to clarify,

I do not believe the Scripture permits divorce and remarriage from one’s spouse. However, I do believe it permits divorce (but NOT remarriage) in some cases.

Likewise, those who may have married someone divorced from their proper living spouse would be eligible to divorce and remarry since they were never truly joined in marriage by God anyhow.

Scripture is pretty clear on this as well.
1 Corinthians 7

To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): 7 ***a wife should not separate from her husband

11***
--and if she does*** separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband-***-and a husband should not divorce his wife.

Everone today believes that they have a right to have sex and a marital partner til they die, even if it means changing marital partners along the way.

It seems like St. Paul had the bigger picture in mind. About our purity of heart. About maintaining our own privacy and keeping our chastity. What would life be like knowing that there are so many people walking around with intimate knowledge of you that is only knowledge that a spouse should have.

It seems as if Paul was considering exactly this when he wrote. He only allowed someone to have a second spouse if the first one died. That would mean, in God’s plan, there would be no one but our living spouse with sexual knowledge of us.

I know this is straying from my original topic, but it’s just something I think about when I read the scriptures.

Was Paul being mean when He said this? I don’t think so.

He goes on to say that

 An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.

33
But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,
34
and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
35
** I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord** without distraction.

 

[graceandglory]

but if one parent had authority to decide religion then the other one would not be able to take the children to any religious activity not approved by the managing parent.

As I did not have legal representation in my own divorce, I learned as much as I could. It’s possible that I missed something.

I know that in my state all decisions are joint unless there is a history of criminal abuse or addiction present. That wasn’t the case. I would be very interested to know if the courts could make a decision on who raises the children in what religion, as some things could be addressed in the future. The legal advice I received at the time basically scoffed at the thought.

If you have information on this, you can private message me.

 

[c659smith]

wow, strange way to do things. in my state when I got divorced, one party was identified as the managing conservator, the other the possessory conservator, meaning that the managing conservator had responsibility and authority to make all decisions respecting health and welfare. that person set the times and places and circumstances of all visitation by the possessory conservator (must be reasonable or the judge would step in). though this was never an issue for us, i assume that the managing conservator also made decisions regarding religious worship, since he/she had custody most of the time, and decided where the children went to school, what kinds of after school activities they had, etc etc.

I can certainly understand that! but if one parent had authority to decide religion then the other one would not be able to take the children to any religious activity not approved by the managing parent.

Which brings up an interesting situation. My boys turn 14 soon. They will want to be practicing Catholics on their dad’s weekends. They will want to go to Mass. I told them that there’s really nothing we can do until they turn 14. At age 14, they have a bit more responsibilities as Catholics. I don’t know how that will all work out.

yeah, 14 is still pretty tender. Are they twins? tough situation for them, and for you. Good for them though when they have authority to do what they want and will want to please their mom, i expect.

*****They may pick another Religion at the time possibly to please their Mom or because the other Religion may requre less responsibility on them such as any one of the protestant sects.

As long as they were given a good foundation of the Catholic Faith, with leadership by you following the teachings of the Catholic Church (such as continued prayer and regular church attendance)and when they are with you requiring them to do the same even if going through the motions they will find their way back home should they get lost along the way.

Truth → Will always rise above lies and deceptions*****

 

[AgnosTheist]

What I call adultery, he says is none of my business. What I see is scandalous, he doesn’t have a concept of.

I have found peace in my own life, and am happily moving on.

I think you are living in denial. You are just using religion as an excuse. Let him go.

 

[J_C]

As I did not have legal representation in my own divorce, I learned as much as I could. It’s possible that I missed something.

I know that in my state all decisions are joint unless there is a history of criminal abuse or addiction present. That wasn’t the case. I would be very interested to know if the courts could make a decision on who raises the children in what religion, as some things could be addressed in the future. The legal advice I received at the time basically scoffed at the thought.

If you have information on this, you can private message me.

i’m sure this varies from state to state as most things do, but the idea of one parent in a divorce being appointed the MANAGING parent and the other the POSSESSORY parent must if common sense prevails, which it usually does in law, be nearly universal. It just would not make any sense to have two people who were divorcing and therfore at odds with one another over many matters, have to make joint decisions about the children.

however it appears from what you write that your boys are almost at the age of religious consent in your state, so it probably is too late to poke too much in this area.

God bless, grace; trust Him for all solutions to all problems.

 

[graceandglory]

I think you are living in denial. You are just using religion as an excuse. Let him go.

AgnosTheist:
You think a lot of things I don’t agree with.
I’m not surprised.

 

[graceandglory]

Welcome to Washington State!!!

You got right to the crux of the matter!!
It doesn’t make any sense at all.
But that is how it is.
All decisions are joint: religion, medical, education, everything. (I have home schooled and sent them to Catholic School without complaint)

Custody is “joint” on paper, with one parent designated the “residential parent.”

And that is across the board in my state. It is not a family friendly state. It is not a religion-friendly state.