Divorce

[ricofall]

From John Chapter 4: (NRSV)

No to aurgue with you, but for clarification, did the husbands die?

Or consider John 8 (NRSV)

Jesus can pretty much do what he wants to do. As it is said by Catholics, Jesus is bound to the sacraments, not by them. Just as he placed that thief on the cross in paradise.

We want a heart that is after God’s own heart. We want people to be able to move forward. We want people to be able to know the truth. Jesus forgave the sin. Why don’t we?

Who is not forgiving? The Church?

 

[ricofall]

Losing members by the droves, thank goodness for immigrates and hispanics keeping their numbers level.

WOW, I see what you really think about us hispanics and immigrates. That is a very prejudicial comment you made. Well, I am sorry if I do not have 3+ kids to fit your description of me. I hope you understand and forgive me.

 

[Luvtosew]

WOW, I see what you really think about us hispanics and immigrates. That is a very prejudicial comment you made. Well, I am sorry if I do not have 3+ kids to fit your description of me. I hope you understand and forgive me.

No actually I think its a good thing, I said nothing discrimatory, sorry you took it that way, just so many divorced people leaving and others that really its a good thing. Heres a little reading for you.

A snapshot of today’s immigrants quickly reveals their significance to the church: 42% of all legal immigrants to the USA are Catholic. And by 2020, the church projects that more than half of its members will have Spanish surnames.

While Tancredo Republicans and Dobbs protectionists speculate that the church wants immigration reform simply because it is fashionable politics or is a way to put more people in the pews, there is a much larger and longer standing Catholic case for migration. The U.S. Catholic Church was founded by and for immigrants, and it sees today’s nativist grumblings as the same that confronted the American church in its earliest years.

“We are relearning what it means to be an immigrant church,” says Mark Franken, head of migration and refugee services for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). “There are just a lot of people unaware of both the theological dimension for migration, and also our history in this country.”

Brought to America by Spanish and French explorers, Catholicism accounted for 1% of the population in the 13 colonies in 1776, according to the Archdiocese of St. Louis. By the end of the 19th century, the Catholic population had swelled, and anti-immigrant sentiment had emerged as Irish and other newcomers had dramatically changed the church’s face. In 1920, three of four U.S. Catholics were immigrants, and it is for these immigrants that the church created its vast network of schools, charities and hospitals.

Today, the Catholic Church is America’s largest with 69 million members, roughly four times the size of the second-largest, the Southern Baptist Convention. It credits the vast majority of its growth in the USA over the past four decades to this nation’s ever-increasing Hispanic population.

 

[rainbow1]

WOW, I see what you really think about us hispanics and immigrates. That is a very prejudicial comment you made. Well, I am sorry if I do not have 3+ kids to fit your description of me. I hope you understand and forgive me.

Ricofall,
I am glad you are posting. Can you share with us how Hispanics culturally feel about divorce as Catholics? And the annulment process? Are there any differences that you have noticed? Blessings to you…

 

[EvelynEVF]

So there is some room for reform in non official Church doctrine practices…

It wasn’t a “non official church Church doctrine practice” that needed reforming. They were doing what the Church forbade, period. It’s not like the difference between discipline and dogma, ie married priests in the East. Selling indulgences was wrong, and they needed to be told to quit it. We’re not reforming marriage practices by telling people they need to stop living together premaritally, yk?

But I do agree that there is plenty of room to reform/streamline the “annulment process.”

 

[PRmerger]

If the Church would rather people leave than forgive them, thats their perrogative, and its the persons perogative to leave the Church if they want.

If the couple has received the Sacrament of Reconciliation, they are forgiven, Luv.

Surely you know that, right?

Now, if they commit moral sin again, after receiving FORGIVENESS, then, of course, they cannot receive the Eucharist.

Just like I can’t.

And any Catholic can’t.

So it’s not just this particular divorced couple that the Church is “picking on” that can’t receive communion.

Anyone with mortal sin on their soul that hasn’t gone to the Sacrament of Reconciliation may not receive the Eucharist.

Now, when I have mortal sin on my soul and I don’t receive, do you think it would be a good idea for me to leave the Church because I can’t receive? Yes, or no, Luv?

 

[PRmerger]

I do not believe it is necessarily a good approach to point fingers at people and claim they are not “good enough” or that they are" not a Catholic" as a method to try to reach them.

That, rainbow, would indeed be obnoxious and anyone here who claims that another is not “good enough” should get reported immediately!

Now, as far as saying someone is not a Catholic, if they’re spouting views that aren’t Catholic, then they ought to be called on it. Don’t you think?

You really wouldn’t have a problem if a person said she was a Catholic and then posted something like this, “I believe that Jesus was an alien who just invaded the minds of his disciples and brainwashed them into thinking that he died and was resurrected.”

I know I wouldn’t have a problem saying that this person is not proclaiming views consonant with Catholicism.

You?

 

[PRmerger]

why isn’t a man with a vasectomy given a choice either Eucharist or no sex?

Because he’s been FORGIVEN, Luv, and unless he goes out and gets another vasectomy on his other little tube then he has no more mortal sin (as it applies to getting a vasectomy) on his soul.

I can receive the Eucharist if I want, this is not about me.

Certainly, you can. As long as you don’t have mortal sin on your soul.

And, remember, that anyone who has sex that’s not married is committing a mortal sin.

 

[PRmerger]

yes in the early Church they charged for confession, one of Lutherans complaints. And they charged for prayer to get people out of purgatory.

Perhaps you are confusing orthopraxy with orthodoxy, Luv.

The teachings of the Church are orthodoxy.
The practices of the people in the Church are orthopraxy.

So many, many sinners in the Church did poor orthopraxy.

But the orthodoxy of the Church has always remained without error.

So if there was a priest who charged for confession, he certainly did not do it with the approval of Holy Mother Church! And may God have mercy on his soul!

Now, if you want to argue with me about the orthodoxy, please provide a source, from the Magisterium, that says that it’s fine for a priest to charge for confession. Thanks.

 

[PRmerger]

We want a heart that is after God’s own heart. We want people to be able to move forward. We want people to be able to know the truth. Jesus forgave the sin. Why don’t we?

Of course, if the couple goes to the Sacrament of Reconciliation, they are forgiven.

Now, if they don’t commit another mortal sin before Communion time, then they are free to receive Him.

Of course, no one would argue that adultery is a mortal sin, right?

"Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Luke 16:18

 

[rainbow1]

That, rainbow, would indeed be obnoxious and anyone here who claims that another is not “good enough” should get reported immediately!

Now, as far as saying someone is not a Catholic, if they’re spouting views that aren’t Catholic, then they ought to be called on it. Don’t you think?

You really wouldn’t have a problem if a person said she was a Catholic and then posted something like this, “I believe that Jesus was an alien who just invaded the minds of his disciples and brainwashed them into thinking that he died and was resurrected.”

I know I wouldn’t have a problem saying that this person is not proclaiming views consonant with Catholicism.

You?

Actually, I would be curious as to why she believed that…and I would ask her. I truly would. Maybe she is delusional and maybe she isn’t… but you know, the alien stuff is just a little over the top! We approach things differently… but that is ok.

I am still hoping to learn about people’s different experiences about divorce and the annulment procedure with my clear intent on understanding how to help foster the relationship between Catholics who have been divorced and the Church to decrease the amount of people leaving their faith. Maybe there are not too many divorced Catholics who are considering leaving the Church and still read CAF! But I would have guessed by now I would have found out more about what type of support groups and programs are used different places…hmmm…
And in the meantime, seems sad the OP isn’t around…

 

[Luvtosew]

PR,

Now, when I have mortal sin on my soul and I don’t receive, do you think it would be a good idea for me to leave the Church because I can’t receive? Yes, or no, Luv?

Not if you can go to confession. of course not.

but the OP is mad, and he went to another Church so he may as well stay there, or go through an appeal, which I don’t think he wants to and I don’t blame him. I guess that is his choice. Just because its so sometimes doesn’t always mean its right. Some other Churches have communion (don’t ask me which ones) may not be the same of CC communion but its still communion.

 

[PRmerger]

Actually, I would be curious as to why she believed that…and I would ask her. I truly would. Maybe she is delusional and maybe she isn’t… but you know, the alien stuff is just a little over the top!

Oh, nothing wrong with asking her why she believed that. I’d do that myself.

But you didn’t answer the question: would you have a problem with someone saying that wasn’t Catholic belief?

 

[PRmerger]

Some other Churches have communion (don’t ask me which ones) may not be the same of CC communion but its still communion.

It’s still communion in the sense that the Protestant congregation may have Jesus present in their midst, as 2 or 3 are gathered in His name.

It’s still communion in the sense that the Protestant congregation may feel spiritually united to Him.

However, it’s certainly NOT communion in that Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity are absolutely NOT present in their communion wafer.

It’s like a couple saying, “We enjoyed the One Flesh Union through writing letters to each other.” Uh, not quite. You may get closer to each other from writing letters, but nothing replaces the One Flesh Union.

 

[rainbow1]

Luv, I wish the OP were still with us to discuss this stuff. But my guess is that he grew weary of all this stuff going on in this thread. But tonight I will ask our Good Lord, to bless the OP, and to help him find the peace he is looking for. And I will ask Him to give the OP just the certain people he needs in his life to help him to continue to grow spiritually and to also acquire the confidence to know in his heart how very much his Father loves him no matter what and for the OP to know even better his Father’s deep mercy ,compassion and unconditional and unfailing Love. Furthermore, I will ask our dear Lord to satisfy the OP’s hunger for the Eucharist in whatever way He feels appropriate, and to let the OP know that all hunger for God is a gift, and one to be treasured, not feared.
I also will be praying for everyone on this thread this weekend and feel blessed to have heard so many stories of difficulties which have resulted in a more profound love of our Lord.
I ask that you pray for a friend of mine who called me yesterday and is suicidal. Her husband of many years has recently returned from war, and my friend hung on, taking care of her children until her husband has returned. And now it is time for her to heal from her depression and I will be not posting so much for awhile in order to go stay with her and help out. But please put her and her family in your prayers… there is nothing quite like the prayer warriors here at CAF!

 

[Luvtosew]

It’s still communion in the sense that the Protestant congregation may have Jesus present in their midst, as 2 or 3 are gathered in His name.

It’s still communion in the sense that the Protestant congregation may feel spiritually united to Him.

However, it’s certainly NOT communion in that Jesus’ Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity are absolutely NOT present in their communion wafer.

It’s like a couple saying, “We enjoyed the One Flesh Union through writing letters to each other.” Uh, not quite. You may get closer to each other from writing letters, but nothing replaces the One Flesh Union.

PR- you crack me up. (your analogy of writing letters, good one)

Well they say one can receive grace even if taking Holy Communion spiritually, so it does have benefits.

 

[PRmerger]

But please put her and her family in your prayers… there is nothing quite like the prayer warriors here at CAF!

Prayers going up right now, rainbow.

 

[PRmerger]

Well they say one can receive grace even if taking Holy Communion spiritually, so it does have benefits.

Indeed. No one ought to dismiss the grace one receives from receiving Him spiritually.

But let me ask you this, would you rather be with your husband “in spirit”, or actually be physically present with him?

 

[Luvtosew]

Prayers going up right now, rainbow.

Rainbow, praying for your friend and her family.

 

[Luvtosew]

Indeed. No one ought to dismiss the grace one receives from receiving Him spiritually.

But let me ask you this, would you rather be with your husband “in spirit”, or actually be physically present with him?

since I will not tell a lie, Both, I don’t like him physically with me all the time (yikes-I need my time alone) , so when he is I enjoy him more, but even when hes not he is always with me anyway.

Now God is always with me , morning , all day, night, can’t go anywhere without him.

Of course better to take the Eucharist physically , but still has benefits if unable. The Eucharist is what you make of it. Everything is what you make of it.