Divorce

[OutinChgoburbs]

Couseling is ongoing for me. Just don’t know how to let her go yet. It felt like a valid holy marriage on my end, wasn’t rushed into either but she must’ve felt differently or did not really have the capacity to understand the vows. Of course I would like an annulment eventually but I want her back more. Should I be preparing anything for an annulment yet? Saving old letters and e-mails, ect? Anyone else had a similar situation and got an annulment?

Save all that for your very good lawyer that you will be hring for the divorce, to protect yourself from her very good lawyer.

 

[gambino]

Save all that for your very good lawyer that you will be hring for the divorce, to protect yourself from her very good lawyer.

You are right but do youthink there is anything I can do to save the marriage other than prayer? Has anyone been in this type situation before?

 

[dulcissima]

A marriage takes the right intentions of two people. If she has no interest in the marriage…then no…there is nothing that you can do. You can pray, yes, but there comes a time where you need to look at the reality of the situation and understand that your wife has her own free will.

A lot of the feelings that you are having right now, the grieving for what you have lost, are covered in this book that I highly recommend:

amazon.com/Rebuilding-Relationship-Books-Divorce-Beyond/dp/1886230692/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202034532&sr=8-1

You might also get a lot out of this online publication explaining the Catholic teaching on marriage and annulment.

kofc.org/un/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/veritas/Veritas_CIS301.pdf

 

[gambino]

So the divorce is continuing. I still have not had any contact with her. It’s like I’m battling a shadowy enemy because I am still facing the fallout with no one to negotiate with. I’m almost certain now that infidelity was involved based on phone records. I also am realizing that no one deserves to be treated this way. We had a Catholic marriage, not some short term fling. She meets many of the criteria of borderline personality disorder. I’ve found out that she has treated numerous friendships this way in the past among other reasons.

My counselor said that the best thing to do is to give her the space she is crying out for (through her lawyers) and not to contact her. Yet part of me really wants to write her a letter which I can legally do as one last chance to know that I have done everything I can before this divorce proceeds. I don’t really know what to say in it other than the obvious. Why did she walk away? Why cheat? Why the violence? Why can’t we fix this?

The bottom line is that I do not want a divorce. A couple of priests have said I have a good case for an annulment. I’m grateful for that but I also know that I really did marry her. I still think she suffered from a mental breakdown. It felt valid in my mind. This wasn’t the wife I loved throughout our marriage. What do you think? Should I write a letter? This forum is like my family too!

 

[Nordar]

Hi gambino,
I know that you are hurting, when you are married in the Catholic Church and you take your vows seriously it is not an easy thing to know that Divorce may happen.

If it were me I would not write her, it sounds like to her the marriage is over, the letter I doubt will mean anything to her. You won't get any answers to your questions,so it would seem kind of futile to even ask her.

 Your best bet right now is to try to accept the fact that she wants the marriage to end. Prolonging the hope that the marriage can be saved is only prolonging your pain and stopping you from moving forward with your life. You deserve better, you are in my prayers.

 

[GraceDK]

Gambino…
hmm… seems everyone here just tells you to listen to her and your priest and give it up.
I’d say the opposite… You gotta find out what is going on… pursue her. She is your wife that you love… maybe she came into some dirt and isnt thinking clearly. rescue her… give it at least a try… just because she was with some lesbians dont mean she is necesarily one of them…
come on brother… I think you should meet her one day… she must understand that you are entitled to some explanation. Meet her and tell her loudly that you love her and that she is your wife … if she is a decent person at all then she will at least explain herself, even if it still does not change her opinion about your seperate futures.

I hope everything works out…

 

[Nordar]

Gambino…
I think you should meet her one day… she must understand that you are entitled to some explanation. Meet her and tell her loudly that you love her and that she is your wife … if she is a decent person at all then she will at least explain herself, even if it still does not change her opinion about your seperate futures.

I hope everything works out…

Rather hard to meet with her if she does not want to be contacted (which she has made perfectly clear) She does not have to understand anything, if she does not want to explain she won’t.

 

[GraceDK]

so our brother should just give up?
come on… where is the heroic thing in that? who of you would just let go of a daughter, a sister or a mother who suddenly behaved strangely and left? If your daughter left and had a restraining order against you for no obvious reason would you just throw up your hands and say: well thats it… bye bye, princess.
I hope you’re real men and not somebody that just leans back and wouldn’t fight for your marriages. So much for sacramental love…
I am not saying that this brother should stick around for 5-10 years … I am just saying that I dont see why he would hurry to go and get an annulment after a short time or why such a behaviour would be encouraged here… (but I also think annulments are granted too easily many times) … so I stick to what I said. I have heard of other people who suddenly left their families … good christian people who suddenly had some kind of break down but who are living in their respective families today because they came back and was given time and peace to sort it out… they dont need that people give up on them easily …
Maybe this young woman excatly needs to see that somebody gives a xxxx about her… that might be a change in her life…

 

[Norseman82]

If your daughter left and had a restraining order against you for no obvious reason would you just throw up your hands and say: well thats it… bye bye, princess.

In this particular situation, what would you specifically do?

 

[GraceDK]

patience, prayer, try contacting her family, and try finding her.
I may be wrong Norseman… but if it was I who did this to my husband, I think that is what I, in my heart of (sober) hearts, would wish for at this time…

 

[Norseman82]

So the divorce is continuing. I still have not had any contact with her. It’s like I’m battling a shadowy enemy because I am still facing the fallout with no one to negotiate with. I’m almost certain now that infidelity was involved based on phone records. I also am realizing that no one deserves to be treated this way. We had a Catholic marriage, not some short term fling. She meets many of the criteria of borderline personality disorder. I’ve found out that she has treated numerous friendships this way in the past among other reasons.

My counselor said that the best thing to do is to give her the space she is crying out for (through her lawyers) and not to contact her. Yet part of me really wants to write her a letter which I can legally do as one last chance to know that I have done everything I can before this divorce proceeds. I don’t really know what to say in it other than the obvious. Why did she walk away? Why cheat? Why the violence? Why can’t we fix this?

The bottom line is that I do not want a divorce. A couple of priests have said I have a good case for an annulment. I’m grateful for that but I also know that I really did marry her. I still think she suffered from a mental breakdown. It felt valid in my mind. This wasn’t the wife I loved throughout our marriage. What do you think? Should I write a letter? This forum is like my family too!

Well, if you want to fight to save your marriage, be prepared to get a few “bloody noses”, so to speak.

Was your wife a practicing Catholic? What about her family? The only thing I might suggest is to have a priest at her/their parish try to talk some sense into her/them (it may backfire as harassment in court, though).

Other than that, if you think she has a personality disorder, is there a way to have a court rule her as mentally unfit? (That may potentially backfire as well.)

If it does go to court, you may be able to fight it there; but you need to ask yourself how far you are willing to go? Do you have the stomach for a fight? Maybe you need to switch lawyers and find one who does indeed try to fight the divorce first.

 

[Norseman82]

patience, prayer, try contacting her family, and try finding her.
I may be wrong Norseman… but if it was I who did this to my husband, I think that is what I, in my heart of (sober) hearts, would wish for at this time…

I guess I was questioning if you were suggesting that one should disregard the law in the case of a restraining order (and I understand this may be considered an “unjust law”).

But keep in mind that you are writing as one who has a properly functioning conscience today, whereas gambino’s wife may not.

 

[GraceDK]

Norseman.
You say: “But keep in mind that you are writing as one who has a properly functioning conscience today, whereas gambino’s wife may not.”

But she may have it back…?.. how about a chance…
If her conscience is not working now, then what about the woman that the OP married… she was not always like this… All the more reason to try to solve it…

Since I am not American and we dont use restraining orders very much where I come from (actually I learned to use the term by you guys, sad to say)… I don’t know what to say when you ask me if I think the law should be broken…
Sometimes the laws are not just and the individual may step outside of over the system… To not obey the system, made valid by generel ethic codes, is always a heavy decision and only history can judge the man who steps out as the one, as either failure or hero.
I am passionate about love… so maybe my eyes are blurred… but I’d say, the world is in need of heroes…
Remind the fallen woman that she is a princess… and maybe she needs healing. Only patience, through love, can do the miracle and love is heroic… its way too cheep for the rest of us here, who do not love this precious lady, to tell the OP to just give up.
A man must never easily give up on his beloved… especially if he does not know the precise reasons…

 

[dulcissima]

Two priests have advised him that the marriage probably isn’t valid. Now I know that it is what a tribunal says, and not what a priest says, but she left him to pursue lesbian relationships. His counselor advises him that she likely has borderline personality disorder. I think that you have to realize that as much as a valid sacramental marriage is worth fighting for…one that isn’t likely valid…well, maybe you need to know when to say when. I am sure that the devil would like nothing more for us to feel bound to something so destructive and so likely to cause despair as this relationship.

Gambino, you ask why, why, why…when you are dealing with mental illness, there is no satisfactory answers to those questions. Sometimes the best that you can do is just accept that the answers to those questions are just going to remain unanswerable.

The validity of your marriage is not based solely on your good intentions. You could be 100% committed, and if she isn’t there to meet you and give it try, all of your good intentions matter naught. I myself have been stubborn and have had to learn this the hard way, and even now this can be a challenge for me. You can not make someone else do the right thing. God has given every one of us free will, which includes the free will to go against his will. Just because you understood and meant your vows, does not mean that the same is true for the woman that you married.

 

[rpp]

Gambino, I am very sorry for your situation.

If you look back over the years, knowing what you know now, does any of her previous behavior seem less innocent now? Can you see where this was coming from now that you know that your soon-to-be ex-wife has such a disorder?

As others have mentioned, including the priests you described, I think you are going to have to walk away. Your (soon-to-be ex-) knows that it must be incredibly frustrating for you to not be able to communicate. That is on purpose. It is an ongoing act of cruelty on her part. Just like her getting “physically violent” with you. It would be consistant with the “boderline personality disorder” and lesbianism/bi-sexualism that you mentioned earlier. You have to let go.

This may be difficult to comprehend, but right now all she seeks to do is inflict pain on you. You cannot let her know that she is hurting you.

Do not write her. Do not beg. Do not ask. That will only give her the satisfaction of knowing that you are miserable. That she does not feel constrained or encumbered by her marital vows, but knowing that you are, only makes it easier for her to hurt you.

Remember, she filed for divorce, not you. She was unfaithful, not you. She is the one who has been violent, not you. You are not at fault here. You are not morally culpable. Let her go.

May God grant you His peace.

 

[chevalier]

Thank you for the insight. I have talked to a couple of priests. Both have said i need to let go, get divorced and seek an annulment because acting/being lesbian or bisexual in a marriage is disordered. Her not wanting to talk means she does not want to put our marriage back together either. It is not a condition that can exist within marriage. That advice doesn’t lessen the pain. Not being allowed to get ahold of her does not leave me many options either. Is there any hope? Is divorce always immoral?

Gambino, it is not immoral to bring forth a nullity claim in a null marriage. And if the sacramental marriage is null, one can’t have marital relations licitly. One shouldn’t otherwise act married, either. Thus I believe it’s not immoral to file the nullity claim and get the divorce if the marriage is null. The problem with tribunals in the US is that they won’t normally give you a nullity verdict before your civil marriage ends in divorce, though.

Prayers for you.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Gambino, sweetie-

You might have had a Catholic wedding, but you did not have a Catholic marraige. Two priests have told you so, and when you’re ready, I’m wagering a tribunal will say the same. Just because you intended to honor your vows does not mean she did, and I think that’s quite obvious.

Go get the book, Anullment: The Wedding That Was. What you are experiencing is normal, but not going to help you.

I am going to offer up a bit of my current suffering for you, sweetie, that you find resolve in this matter. You need some strength.

 

[gambino]

Urrgh! It feels like it wont end. DW wants a permanent no contact order in place…I still do not get it. She assaults me, wants a divorce, goes no contact for months, still no contact, then wants it to become forever. I guess no communication is a great way to solve all problems.

 

[dulcissima]

Urrgh! It feels like it wont end. DW wants a permanent no contact order in place…I still do not get it. She assaults me, wants a divorce, goes no contact for months, still no contact, then wants it to become forever. I guess no communication is a great way to solve all problems.

If she is borderline, that is actually pretty common.

You might want to look for this book to give you an idea of what divorcing a borderline might look like:

bpdcentral.com/bks/spy.php

 

[Norseman82]

Urrgh! It feels like it wont end. DW wants a permanent no contact order in place…I still do not get it. She assaults me, wants a divorce, goes no contact for months, still no contact, then wants it to become forever. I guess no communication is a great way to solve all problems.

Pardon me if I have missed this, but have you filed charges against her for the assault yet? It sounds like you need all the leverage you can get no matter what route you choose to go.