Divorced but still married

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CthgeDelendaEst said:
She states often that she has to “heal”.

Let me translate this for you. She likes the status quo. She’s free to keep her options open w/r/t meeting another man, and knows you’re hanging around to go back to later if she doesn’t like what she finds. You said she still considers herself married to you in the church. Fair enough, but she didn’t mind using the secular courts to have you removed from your home, take your kids from you, and extract financial support, did she?

If you want have a chance at getting her back, then forget about her for a while and work on yourself. Start lifting weights if you don’t already. Pursue your hobbies. Do some volunteer work. Learn a new language. You get the idea. You likely have more free time now than at any in your adult life. Make good use of it.

Be pleasant in your interactions with your wife, but stop all mention of reconciliation. Take off your ring, but say nothing about it. Trust me, she will notice. Let some time pass and see what happens.

Finally, while your emotional affair was wrong and you deserve your share of the blame for your situation, you also deserve credit for wanting to work this out. So many men would simply say, “forget it” and start dating women a decade younger than them. God bless you for trying to stay the course, no matter how lonely it might be. I hope you and your wife find the way back to each other.
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Why take off the ring?

To me, that sounds like flirting with sin and also encouraging his wife to flirt with sin. It’s scandalous.

The OP has already demonstrated to his wife that he is willing to look outside of his marriage–she already knows that about him and that’s why he is alone now. Emphasizing that fact is not going to do him any good.
 
Hi bellasdad,

Your situation sounds somewhat familiar. If you have an opportunity, read my thread “Divorce/separation and mental illness”.

My husband is battling through some major depression right now, and more often than not our conversations end in me being the one who can fix him. His reasons are: "I don’t spend enough time with him, I ignore him, I speak badly of him to the kids, (which I do not)I make him feel like an idiot, I could go on, but I’m sure you get the picture.

My husband has a lot of legitimate reasons to be depressed, but he has reasons to be happy too. He has a hard time taking one moment at a time. He is fearful of murphy’s law with everything. He is constantly sending me news articles about home invasions, kidnappings, and health scares. I know these are serious events, but if we live in constant fear, are we really living?

I think the OP’s have given you some good advice. Let your wife see the happy, strong, and confident man she fell in love with, married and had 6 beautiful children with. Offer to run the kids to events or appointments for her, I’m sure with 5 kids, she probably drives “Mom’s taxi” right now. This might give you a little more of that quality time with them too. Do your best to be the man God wants you to be first, then the husband your wife needs you to be and you want to be, and finally the father your kids need you to be. Your kids will never stop loving you, they may get upset with you, but you will always be their Dad, and no one can ever replace you.

Like you said, your wife has imperfections too, we all do. But when we work on fixing our own, we become an inspiration to others, we become better equipped to handle similar problems in the future, and we become better equipped to offer support and advice to those struggling through similar situations. Pray for the gifts of the Holy Spirit, I believe these will help you on your journey.

Whatever you do from this point forward, make it a point to find one little thing in each day that makes you “a better you” in God’s eyes. The devil will use your depression, anger, resentment, and any other negative emotion he can to make you stumble, and some days, he might win. But that doesn’t mean you give up, because that is what he wants. On those days, you’re still better than the worst days you’ve had before. Pray harder on those day. I think I read in Saint Faustina’s Diary: “on the days it’s hardest to pray, pray even harder”.

God Bless You on your journey!
 
Thank you so much earningmywings for the positive post. I am making every effort to help her as much as I can and to spend more time with my children. I pray for God’s Grace everyday and I pray for my wife everyday.
 
Your first post seemed to be a somewhat self-centered to me as well, but your subsequent responses make it seem like you legitimately want to repair your family and are willing to take responsibility and make changes.

I agree with other posters that you should focus on maintaining a good relationship with your kids. That’s really the most important thing. Don’t forget the adult child either. Divorce is hard on them too. I would not get into a major custody battle in order to do so, unless it can’t be avoided. Instead, talk to your wife about helping out with transportation to activities and spending time with the kids one on one. If you’ve got six, there probably won’t be a lot of opposition to that suggestion. The quality of time you have with your kids is a lot more important than whose roof they sleep under.
 
bellasdad said:
She says forgiveness doesn’t mean reconciliation. I disagree.
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I agree with your wife. A friend hurt me very badly. When she finally apologized (more than a year later) I told her I forgave her but there was no way I wanted to be friends again. She accepted that. You should accept what your wife says. If you don’t, you are discounting your wife’s emotions. Perhaps that is one of the reasons she wanted the divorce?
bellasdad said:
She states often that she has to “heal”. My response to this is that time doesn’t heal, Jesus does. He could heal her instantly if she asked, just as he did for me.
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You don’t sound healed, you sound like you’re hurting. Listen to your wife; just as it takes time to heal from physical injuries, it takes time to heal from emotional injuries. And no two people heal at the same rate.
 
A few posters above said it best! Take off the wedding ring…mention nothing about getting back together and move on. Easier said then done but it needs to happen.

There are a few things in your favor going on here
  • Kids
  • A few DECADES of marriage
    -And your wife is a female.
Now ita time to play the game. She wanted to split with you. Good riddens. She had every right to and despite your feelinga YES she doesnt need to get back with you to qualify for true forgiveness.

But you still have allot of chips to throw around. Work on yourself. Work out, get in shape, take care of yourself. Show her and the world that you are indeed a different man who doesnt just wallow in depression and cheats on his wife. Take up a hobby…REBUILD.

Your wifes a Catholic but any women who sees you begging her like a dog will be turned off by you as she knows she has you. Make it known you are in a new place (with your actions not words) that doesnt require her in your life if thats the route she wants to go.

Give it time, a few bad dates with other “human men” with all their flaws, and a visible declaration of “go your own way if you want to”…and you might be surprised if she begs you to take her back.
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
She states often that she has to “heal”.

Let me translate this for you. She likes the status quo. She’s free to keep her options open w/r/t meeting another man, and knows you’re hanging around to go back to later if she doesn’t like what she finds. You said she still considers herself married to you in the church. Fair enough, but she didn’t mind using the secular courts to have you removed from your home, take your kids from you, and extract financial support, did she?
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I disagree. I think the translation is more like, “Let me process my emotions, and please show me that I can trust you not to hurt me like that again. That may take time.”

I really don’t understand… why do so many guys seem to think a woman is just looking to replace her husband when she seeks a divorce? IME, a woman seeks a divorce because she feels unloved by her husband and feels little to no hope of ever being loved by him. It’s not about being “free” to meet someone else–that may or may not happen, but it’s not relevant. It’s about THIS relationship NOT WORKING! Why don’t men get that? :confused:

Most of the women I know see divorce NOT as a means to “keep her options open” or look for another man, but either as a last-ditch effort to get through to her husband how serious the problems are, or simply a way to keep from being hurt by him more and more, after she’s lost hope for the relationships. She is protecting herself, or at least feels that she is. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I really don’t see a lot of, “I bet there’s a much better guy out there who would just love to date a divorced mom who still wears her husband’s ring and has lots of kids (instant family!).” At least among the women I know.

Now, the fact that this wife does not take off her ring, and that she is not seeking a declaration of nullity, means she’s likely still got some small shred of hope that her husband will understand that they have REAL problems that need solving, and she is hoping he will work to fix it. I sincerely doubt that she’s out there looking for another man.
 
CatholicRaven said:
I’m sure there are exceptions, but I really don’t see a lot of, “I bet there’s a much better guy out there who would just love to date a divorced mom who still wears her husband’s ring and has lots of kids (instant family!).” At least among the women I know.
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I have met the one exception. Her mother kept telling her she could do better, so she got a divorce. 🤷
 
CatholicRaven said:
I disagree. I think the translation is more like, “Let me process my emotions, and please show me that I can trust you not to hurt me like that again. That may take time.”

I really don’t understand… why do so many guys seem to think a woman is just looking to replace her husband when she seeks a divorce? IME, a woman seeks a divorce because she feels unloved by her husband and feels little to no hope of ever being loved by him. It’s not about being “free” to meet someone else–that may or may not happen, but it’s not relevant. It’s about THIS relationship NOT WORKING! Why don’t men get that? :confused:

Most of the women I know see divorce NOT as a means to “keep her options open” or look for another man, but either as a last-ditch effort to get through to her husband how serious the problems are, or simply a way to keep from being hurt by him more and more, after she’s lost hope for the relationships. She is protecting herself, or at least feels that she is. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I really don’t see a lot of, “I bet there’s a much better guy out there who would just love to date a divorced mom who still wears her husband’s ring and has lots of kids (instant family!).” At least among the women I know.

Now, the fact that this wife does not take off her ring, and that she is not seeking a declaration of nullity, means she’s likely still got some small shred of hope that her husband will understand that they have REAL problems that need solving, and she is hoping he will work to fix it. I sincerely doubt that she’s out there looking for another man.
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We have a difference of opinion. That’s ok. This thread is just another example of dozens I could look up ( if I had I the time or inclination) where the advice given a male (suck it up, your wife needs time/space, supplication is the correct action) vs. females (always given the benefit of the doubt, your husband is a jerk for expecting sex more than you see fit to give it to him [no matter the interval], and my favorite - being depressed excuses all). The OP mentioned a long period of depression in his post, why no sympathy for that?

Because he chose not to trash his wife, for what I suspect may have been many years of icy, frigid treatment - in and out of the bedroom - and instead admitted his emotional infidelity, he immediately lost any and all sympathy. My advice to him was what I truly believe is his best chance at getting her back.

Her not taking off the ring means little IMO. She’s already won. Removed him from the house, got the kids, extracted financial support. By keeping the ring on she gets to remain a “good” Catholic. And assuming she is somewhere between the mid-forties and mid fifties (and healthy), the fact that she is prepared to go the next 30-40 years without sex substantiates the OP when he claimed he went through neglect (physical, at least). That, or like I surmised, she’s keeping her options open.
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
We have a difference of opinion. That’s ok. This thread is just another example of dozens I could look up ( if I had I the time or inclination) where the advice given a male (suck it up, your wife needs time/space, supplication is the correct action) vs. females (always given the benefit of the doubt, your husband is a jerk for expecting sex more than you see fit to give it to him [no matter the interval], and my favorite - being depressed excuses all). The OP mentioned a long period of depression in his post, why no sympathy for that?

Because he chose not to trash his wife, for what I suspect may have been many years of icy, frigid treatment - in and out of the bedroom - and instead admitted his emotional infidelity, he immediately lost any and all sympathy. My advice to him was what I truly believe is his best chance at getting her back.

Her not taking off the ring means little IMO. She’s already won. Removed him from the house, got the kids, extracted financial support. By keeping the ring on she gets to remain a “good” Catholic. And assuming she is somewhere between the mid-forties and mid fifties (and healthy), the fact that she is prepared to go the next 30-40 years without sex substantiates the OP when he claimed he went through neglect (physical, at least). That, or like I surmised, she’s keeping her options open.
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  1. I don’t get it. The OP has been told by me (and others) to be civil to his wife, to back off, to not to pester her with pleas for reconciliation, and to be a loving and responsible father to his children.
In what way is that supplicating his wife? If anything, it’s the very opposite.
  1. You’re also making an awful lot of assumptions about their financial situation. For all you know, the wife makes more than him.
  2. Your logic is very interesting in that last paragraph. As far as I can follow it, you are arguing that her not hurrying to remarry is evidence of her being a cold, frigid wife.
🤷
  1. What do you suggest that he do instead?
The only piece of advice I recall was taking off the ring. What exactly is that supposed to accomplish, other than communicating that he does not wish to reconcile and he is not being faithful to her.

Given that he does wish to reconcile, that would be a very bad idea.
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
And assuming she is somewhere between the mid-forties and mid fifties (and healthy), the fact that she is prepared to go the next 30-40 years without sex substantiates the OP when he claimed he went through neglect (physical, at least). That, or like I surmised, she’s keeping her options open.
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I love the way you think it’s perfectly fine to insult those of us whose marriages came apart and have WILLINGLY remained chaste for many (in my case over twenty years). There is nothing wrong with being celibate. So if we’re not looking for another guy we’re frigid?! But if we are hoping to find Mr. Right we’re sluts?! REALLY?

I figure if God means for me to have a husband, it will happen in HIS time. If not, I’m sharing my home with my mother and sister, and life is pretty good.

Hate to break it to you, but sex is NOT the most important thing in most people’s lives, and it is possible to survive without it.
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
We have a difference of opinion. That’s ok. This thread is just another example of dozens I could look up ( if I had I the time or inclination) where the advice given a male (suck it up, your wife needs time/space, supplication is the correct action) vs. females (always given the benefit of the doubt, your husband is a jerk for expecting sex more than you see fit to give it to him [no matter the interval], and my favorite - being depressed excuses all). The OP mentioned a long period of depression in his post, why no sympathy for that?
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I am sorry for the OP that he has suffered with depression. I am sorry that he found counselling to be unhelpful. But being sorry doesn’t change the advice I gave.
CthgeDelendaEst said:
Because he chose not to trash his wife, for what I suspect may have been many years of icy, frigid treatment - in and out of the bedroom - and instead admitted his emotional infidelity, he immediately lost any and all sympathy. My advice to him was what I truly believe is his best chance at getting her back.
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Speculation helps no-one. The best thing the OP could have done in this situation would be to seek out a marriage counsellor. I don’t know how much
it would have have helped considering the OP didn’t find counselling helpful anyway, but it would have been a step. Having an emotional affair was never going to help anything.
Cthge Delenda Est said:
Her not taking off the ring means little IMO. She’s already won. Removed him from the house, got the kids, extracted financial support.
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Why do you think she’s “won”? What spouse goes into a marriage waiting for the day they can divorce? It is so much harder to raise children alone. I’m sure the OP’s wife didn’t take the decision lightly. Quite frankly, the OP’s wife will need the big house and money to help her with five children. The OP’s depression could have also affected his custody rights, as well as him sending nasty texts to his ex.
Cthge Delenda Est said:
By keeping the ring on she gets to remain a “good” Catholic.
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And what is it, exactly, that the OP’s wife has done to make her a bad Catholic? Getting a divorce? Not forbidden. Not wanting to equate forgiveness with reconciliation? Not wrong, and it doesn’t make her a worse Catholic than the OP.
Cthge Delenda Est said:
And assuming she is somewhere between the mid-forties and mid fifties (and healthy), the fact that she is prepared to go the next 30-40 years without sex substantiates the OP when he claimed he went through neglect (physical, at least). That, or like I surmised, she’s keeping her options open.
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Sex is different to men and women. Willingly choosing to be without sex doesn’t indicate neglect. The depression of the OP, and the emotional affair will have affected the physical intimacy of a marriage. It is incredibly difficult for a woman to be physically intimate when trust and love has gone from a relationship.

How is she “keeping her options open”? By wearing the ring, she’s recognising her marriage is valid by the CC. By recognising this, she knows that she cannot remarry. Not exactly the actions of a woman trying to find someone else.

Lou
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
We have a difference of opinion. That’s ok. This thread is just another example of dozens I could look up ( if I had I the time or inclination) where the advice given a male (suck it up, your wife needs time/space, supplication is the correct action) vs. females (always given the benefit of the doubt, your husband is a jerk for expecting sex more than you see fit to give it to him [no matter the interval], and my favorite - being depressed excuses all). The OP mentioned a long period of depression in his post, why no sympathy for that?

Because he chose not to trash his wife, for what I suspect may have been many years of icy, frigid treatment - in and out of the bedroom - and instead admitted his emotional infidelity, he immediately lost any and all sympathy. My advice to him was what I truly believe is his best chance at getting her back.

Her not taking off the ring means little IMO. She’s already won. Removed him from the house, got the kids, extracted financial support. By keeping the ring on she gets to remain a “good” Catholic. And assuming she is somewhere between the mid-forties and mid fifties (and healthy), the fact that she is prepared to go the next 30-40 years without sex substantiates the OP when he claimed he went through neglect (physical, at least). That, or like I surmised, she’s keeping her options open.
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Your point of view does a disservice to the OP.

Based on his description of his behavior, he is legally on very thin ice. He has engaged in a lot of post-divorce behavior that will sound like a campaign of harassment to any law enforcement officer who sees the divorce decree and reads his texts.

If he continues his current behavior, he is risking a restraining order and possibly even losing what custody he has.

So it is in his best interests to start behaving himself.
 
Xantippe said:
Your point of view does a disservice to the OP.

Based on his description of his behavior, he is legally on very thin ice. He has engaged in a lot of post-divorce behavior that will sound like a campaign of harassment to any law enforcement officer who sees the divorce decree and reads his texts.

If he continues his current behavior, he is risking a restraining order and possibly even losing what custody he has.

So it is in his best interests to start behaving himself.
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Ok, I believe it is time I chimed in. First of all, I am not harassing my wife. I came to terms with my anger back in July after giving it all to God. Even before then, I never threatened my wife, either verbally or through texts. Before or after the civil divorce. I have admitted my wrong doing to her and asked for forgiveness.

I have told her that I love her and always will. I also make it a point to tell my kids that I love their mother very much and do not talk negatively about her, so please don’t tell me that I am on legal thin ice or engaging in “post divorce behavior.”
 
CthgeDelendaEst said:
We have a difference of opinion. That’s ok. This thread is just another example of dozens I could look up ( if I had I the time or inclination) where the advice given a male (suck it up, your wife needs time/space, supplication is the correct action) vs. females (always given the benefit of the doubt, your husband is a jerk for expecting sex more than you see fit to give it to him [no matter the interval], and my favorite - being depressed excuses all). The OP mentioned a long period of depression in his post, why no sympathy for that?
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Coming back to this, I feel like like there’s some stuff you need to know:

A woman’s having sex against her will with a man she despises and hates won’t make her like him better. In fact, it may cause her to hate him more and make reconciliation more, not less difficult.

I know it’s hard for you as a guy to understand this, but for a woman, it is quite possible to be having sex while simultaneously seething with rage and wanting to be anywhere else, doing anything else.

The difference in advice you see probably comes from the fact that a lot of posters intuitively understand this about female sexuality.
 
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