Divorced people are not "outside" the church

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Certainly not! And aren’t we all wounded? But one has to have the proper disposition in order to receive.
Actually, remembering my view from the other side, most of my brothers and sisters seemed quite proud of them selves.
 
There is one pastoral alternative that (while unpopular or even “inconceivable” to some) is sadly not even mentioned a lot of the time.

A couple where one or both spouses are divorced and “remarried” have the option to live as brother and sister, that is, to abstain from marital relations until the situation is resolved. Now, from a natural point of view, this is extremely difficult to live out (although with grace, God can do amazing things). And in a sex-obsessed culture, many people would scoff at this as impossible. But, for couples like the ones mentioned in above posts, who revere the Eucharist by abstaining from it, and who seem to recognize how serious the situation is…shouldn’t this option be considered? It seems that it would allow the couple to go to confession and be reconcilled to the Church and return to the Sacrament, but would still keep the family (situations with children) intact.

My point isn’t that every divorced and remarried couple can and will do this. But I wonder if priests really are stressing that this is a possibility, or if some just assume that the couple would never do this?

Someone with more knowledge or experience in this area, please share.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank
This is something I and my spouse are doing currently. My annulment process is taking place at the same time and we will marry in the church asap when it is completed. However, we have a young child and due to that, this was an option open to us. We are older (48 and 59) and he is chronically ill and so it has not been a terriffic temptation to either of us regardless, but I can see how it might be to other, younger, healthier couples. Yet, the option IS there and should be offered.
 
To tell someone to keep quiet and keep sinning is awful.

It was a choice to get married.
It was a choice to get divorced.
It was a choice to remarry.

Misery loves company but it does no good to entice other people to perdition.
 
Thread is off topic. The OP is what is the Holy Father trying to teach us? Please get back on topic.
 
This current teaching seems consistent with what John Paul II and the CDF taught in 1994. The document in 1994 was addressing the proper pastoral care of those in irregular marriage situations.

The status in the Church of such people was clearly stated.
This does not mean that the Church does not take to heart the situation of these faithful, who moreover are not excluded from ecclesial communion. She is concerned to accompany them pastorally and invite them to share in the life of the Church in the measure that is compatible with the dispositions of divine law, from which the Church has no power to dispense.
I wonder if the Holy Father is repeating this teaching because it may have been widely neglected. Or the “pastoral action" that was articulated as critical to share was not adequately expressed?
In pastoral action one must do everything possible to ensure that this is understood not to be a matter of discrimination but only of absolute fidelity to the will of Christ who has restored and entrusted to us anew the indissolubility of marriage as a gift of the Creator.
—> 1994 CDF LETTER
 
I’m not the Holy Father and will not attempt to speak for him. I can only share what I have seen done, which is very good. I have seen parishes that have support ministries for divorced and remarried Catholics. The one that I’m thinking about, the folks get together every week and discuss their spiritual journey with one of the deacons. They pray together and they address such issues as raising their children Catholic and preparing them for the sacraments. They address important issues such as how to help the children understand that that mom and dad’s situation is outside of the norm. It can be very tempting for parents such situation to simply give children the impression that what they learn about married and remarriage is nonsense. You need help to explain to the children that the Church’s teaching is the truth and that mom and dat’s situation is not the norm. There is a balance, the Church is good and her teachings are true, but that does not make mom and dad evil people. This kind of ministry addresses such issues.

They address concerns about children born to two marriages. This is very important. These men and women need to know what to do and how to be responsible parents, regardless of their marital status. They need to deal with issues of forgiveness. There is a lot of anger and hostility in divorce.

Thought the tribunal must always rule in favor of the bond, that does not mean that there is a bond. What it means that the couple who applied for a decree of nullity was unable to prove that there was not bond… Just because you can’t prove it, does not mean that it’s not real. People who have applied for a decree of nullity and have been denied have to live with the doubt and they have to become reconciled to the fact that the Church is not against them, but simply protecting the bond. People often take it as a personal rejection and walk away from the Church. These ministries help these folks distinguish between the Church being protective of the bond, not really against them as people. The tribunal’s conclusion is not a reflection on you as a person. It’s just that you were unable to prove your claim. You may be a saint, for all we know.

There is a lot that can be done at the parish level, because there are many many issues.
This is good Brother. Thank you.

Here in the south, I can drive down my street and point to several houses were the couples or the divorced women who live there walked away from the Church for this reason. They wander into a Baptist or non-denominational church with a rock band, coffee bar and a pastor who tells them “God loves you just the way you are” and that is where they stay.

The lady who cuts my lunch meat at the grocery store told me that she became Baptist because after her divorce she was made to feel like she was no longer accepted in the Catholic Church and now she has found a church where, “I’m accepted for who I am and people don’t judge me.” I brought up the sacraments and the Eucharist and she said, “Yea… well…” and just change the subject.

Thank you for the information.

-Tim-
 
This is something I and my spouse are doing currently. My annulment process is taking place at the same time and we will marry in the church asap when it is completed. However, we have a young child and due to that, this was an option open to us. We are older (48 and 59) and he is chronically ill and so it has not been a terriffic temptation to either of us regardless, but I can see how it might be to other, younger, healthier couples. Yet, the option IS there and should be offered.
There is another frequent poster here on CAF who has lived with his wife in a state of abstinence for many years.

-Tim-
 
This is good Brother. Thank you.

Here in the south, I can drive down my street and point to several houses were the couples or the divorced women who live there walked away from the Church for this reason. They wander into a Baptist or non-denominational church with a rock band, coffee bar and a pastor who tells them “God loves you just the way you are” and that is where they stay.

The lady who cuts my lunch meat at the grocery store told me that she became Baptist because after her divorce she was made to feel like she was no longer accepted in the Catholic Church and now she has found a church where, “I’m accepted for who I am and people don’t judge me.” I brought up the sacraments and the Eucharist and she said, “Yea… well…” and just change the subject.

Thank you for the information.

-Tim-
You raise an interesting point. This is what scares me so much about this and other situations like it. Who is responsible for the sin? Is it the person who made the “choice” or those who made them feel uncomfortable? I don’t know and quite frankly I don’t think any of us can accurately answer that question because it requires a judgment reserved only for God. However, I mention it only because it is a scary and sad situation to me that is pretty avoidable. I pray for these souls and those that have left the Church because they don’t feel they belong. I really like the point someone made earlier about the Church being a hospital for sinners, not (merely) a museum for saints.
 
The Holy Father gave this teaching today and it’s fascinating. I’d thought I’d share it, because it clarifies some misunderstanding of Catholic tradition regarding being excommunicated and being unable to receive Holy Communion. It’s a very important theological difference, as well as a canonical one.

**

Vatican City, 3 June 2012 (VIS) - Yesterday evening, almost half a million people attended the “Celebration of Witnesses” at Bresso Park in Milan, Italy, one of events of the seventh World Meeting of Families. The Holy Father arrived at 8.30 p.m. to participate in the celebration during which he answered questions put to him by various families on subjects which included the economic crisis, the position of divorced people in the Church and the indissolubility of Marriage. Benedict XVI also recalled his own infancy and family life.

An engaged couple from Madagascar who are studying at university in Italy spoke of the anxiety they felt when faced with the “forever” of Marriage. The Pope explained that falling in love, being an emotion, is not eternal. “The emotion of love must be purified”, he said, “it must undertake a journey of discernment in which the mind and the will also come into play. … In the rite of Marriage the Church does not ask whether you are in love but whether you want, whether you are resolved. In other words, falling in love must become true love; it must involve the will and the mind in a journey (which is the period of engagement) of purification, of greater profundity so that it is truly all of man, with all his capacities, with the discernment of reason and the force of will, who says: ‘Yes, this is my life’”. The Holy Father also mentioned other important factors such as communion of life with others, with friends, the Church, the faith and God Himself.

A Brazilian family raised the issue of divorced couples who have remarried and cannot avail themselves of the Sacraments. Benedict XVI affirmed that “this is one of the the great causes of suffering for the Church today, and we do not have simple solutions. … Naturally, one very important factor is prevention. This means ensuring that, from the beginning, the act of falling love is transformed in a more profound and mature decision. Another factor is that of accompanying people during marriage, to ensure that families are never alone but find authentic company on their journey. We must tell people in this situation that the Church loves them, but they must see and feel this love”. Parishes and other Catholic communities “must do everything possible so that such people feel loved and accepted, that they are not ‘outsiders’ even if they cannot receive absolution and the Eucharist. They must see that they too live fully within the Church. … The Eucharist is real and shared if people truly enter into communion with the Body of Christ. Even without the ‘corporeal’ assumption of the Sacrament, we can be spiritually united to Christ”. It is important for divorced couples “to have the chance to live a life of faith, … to see that their suffering is a gift for the Church, because they also help others to defend the stability of love, of Marriage; … theirs is a suffering in the community of the Church for the great values of our faith”.**

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
Thanks for this, brother JR. The second paragraph is especially good. We have a very bad tendency to view marital love as a sentiment rather than a duty – a thing of the passions rather than the will. Of course, passionate/affectionate/sentimental love is a good thing in the context of marriage: it is a gift from God, intended to lighten the load of our duty, to enable us to rejoice in the performance of those duties. But it’s not necessarily something that can be relied on. And if/when it disappears (and it often does), the duty does not disappear with it. Sometimes you can sing as you carry your cross, but no one imagines that’s the norm.

A good question every couple should ask themselves before marrying is: Can I see myself caring for this person even if they were “brain dead,” vegetative, comatose, delirious, etc.? If their hair turned gray and cracked and they raved all hours of the day? Can I see myself raising a child with this person who had Down’s Syndrome? Put yourself in any of the situations that married couples often find themselves in, challenges that threaten marriages. If you can’t honestly see yourself pulling through it with that person, well, get out.

I’m not sure what the third paragraph, though, is supposed to really mean. It reads like typical obsurantist Vaticanese. What are our duties in terms of making divorced couples feel loved and welcomed? Obviously, not willy-nilly conferral of the sacraments. But what, then? Perhaps it would suffice for priests to address the issue periodically, e.g., during the homily. Perhaps some kind of parish “support group” or something could be established, with the close oversight of the priest, where the issues divorced couples have with the Church can be worked out with an eye toward fully reintegrating them into the Church’s sacramental life. Obviously the Church needs to work harder to deal with those who are, by virtue of their own choices, excluded from the sacraments. What form this should take, I don’t know.
 
This is good Brother. Thank you.

Here in the south, I can drive down my street and point to several houses were the couples or the divorced women who live there walked away from the Church for this reason. They wander into a Baptist or non-denominational church with a rock band, coffee bar and a pastor who tells them “God loves you just the way you are” and that is where they stay.

The lady who cuts my lunch meat at the grocery store told me that she became Baptist because after her divorce she was made to feel like she was no longer accepted in the Catholic Church and now she has found a church where, “I’m accepted for who I am and people don’t judge me.” I brought up the sacraments and the Eucharist and she said, “Yea… well…” and just change the subject.

Thank you for the information.

It’s the same here in California, plus the Protestants provide childcare.

-Tim-
 
You raise an interesting point. This is what scares me so much about this and other situations like it. Who is responsible for the sin? Is it the person who made the “choice” or those who made them feel uncomfortable? I don’t know and quite frankly I don’t think any of us can accurately answer that question because it requires a judgment reserved only for God. However, I mention it only because it is a scary and sad situation to me that is pretty avoidable. I pray for these souls and those that have left the Church because they don’t feel they belong. I really like the point someone made earlier about the Church being a hospital for sinners, not (merely) a museum for saints.
What’s interesting to me is the way everyone wants to focus on fraternal correction of past sin.

Sure they are living in invalid marriages, and maybe even living in sin, but many people in this position can’t just walk away, especially when there are children. It’s not right to rip the family apart and tear a child away from their mother or father. To do so tells the children that husbands and wives are disposable and sets the children up for the same behavior in another twenty years.

The cycle has to stop somewhere, and Bother’s information on educating the children is, I think, key. I’m sure these parents would give their left arm for the opportunity to do it all over again, but at the same time, they have Chidren and a responsiblity to those children. They can’t just walk away from the marriage, even if it is invalid. If we take a moment to look at what message we are sending the children and how we might just be setting them up for future failure, it makes sense for the parents to stay together, at least until the children are older, on their own, and mature enough to understand. What a great example of faith it is to the children, that their mother and father repented, but stayed together for thier sake, knowing that their own salvation was at risk. What an act of love!

The cycle has to stop somewhere. Pointing at people’s past choices doesn’t do anyone any good. I think that is what the Holy Father is trying to teach us.

-Tim-
 
Hi I am new here. My story. I’m not Catholic (yet). I was born, baptized, and raised protestant. I was married for 22 years, divorced. 12 years ago I met and married and man whom is Catholic. He was divorced, and his marriage annulled. Yes, we married in a protestant church. During the past year, we’ve been attending Catholic mass 1-2 times a week. I’m learning so much, and although I’ve always understood how important his faith is to him, I’m really only beginning to understand what he’s been missing, and what he’s given up to marry me. I have made a decision to join the church. So far, I’m going through the inquiry, with hopes of starting RCIA classes in the fall. I’m very excited and reading, studying everything I can get my hands on at the moment. There is so much to learn, and I feel my journey is well on it’s way right now.
I also, now, understand that we are living in sin, according to the Catholic Church, and this saddens me. We have been married for 12 years, and I’d never considered us living in sin.
My question is this. Will it ever be possible for me to join the church? My previous marriage is not annulled of course, because it was a protestant marriage. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to have it annulled. Will we ever be able to make this “right” and marry in the Catholic Church?
I have resolved to the fact that I may not be able to become Catholic because of my previous marriage, and this will not stop me from attending mass. But I know there is so much more. Did Jesus not die on the cross for our sins? How can I make this right?
I’m so excited to begin RCIA classes, but I’m also very nervous, that I may not be able to, because of my previous marriage.
 
Hi I am new here. My story. I’m not Catholic (yet). I was born, baptized, and raised protestant. I was married for 22 years, divorced. 12 years ago I met and married and man whom is Catholic. He was divorced, and his marriage annulled. Yes, we married in a protestant church. During the past year, we’ve been attending Catholic mass 1-2 times a week. I’m learning so much, and although I’ve always understood how important his faith is to him, I’m really only beginning to understand what he’s been missing, and what he’s given up to marry me. I have made a decision to join the church. So far, I’m going through the inquiry, with hopes of starting RCIA classes in the fall. I’m very excited and reading, studying everything I can get my hands on at the moment. There is so much to learn, and I feel my journey is well on it’s way right now.
I also, now, understand that we are living in sin, according to the Catholic Church, and this saddens me. We have been married for 12 years, and I’d never considered us living in sin.
My question is this. Will it ever be possible for me to join the church? My previous marriage is not annulled of course, because it was a protestant marriage. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to have it annulled. Will we ever be able to make this “right” and marry in the Catholic Church?
I have resolved to the fact that I may not be able to become Catholic because of my previous marriage, and this will not stop me from attending mass. But I know there is so much more. Did Jesus not die on the cross for our sins? How can I make this right?
I’m so excited to begin RCIA classes, but I’m also very nervous, that I may not be able to, because of my previous marriage.
Others are more knowlegable in this area than I, but thought a marriage outside the Church does not need to be annulled because the Church doesn’t recognize it to begin with. Or it may be true in some cases and not others,depending on denomination etc…?
 
My question is this. Will it ever be possible for me to join the church? My previous marriage is not annulled of course, because it was a protestant marriage. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to have it annulled. Will we ever be able to make this “right” and marry in the Catholic Church?
I believe there is a process by which the Church is able to look at marriages which did not take place in the Catholic Church.

As one who has gone through the annullment process, I can tell you that what really needs to happen is that you and your husband sit down with a trained member of the clergy at your Church and discuss it. I’m not saying that people here can’t help, but the proper forum for this is someone who is trained to deal with these issues, and the priests or deacons at your Church are the first step.

The Catholic Church is God’s instrument of salvation in the world. It exists to bring people in, not shut them out. There is always a way. 🙂

-Tim-
 
Thanks so much for your quick reply. My investigation so far has revealed, that, yes, the Catholic Church does recognized marriage and baptism outside the church, and I’ll have to go through annulment, or attempt to go through it. It may take a year or longer, depending on whether or not my exhusband replies (which I doubt he will). Will I be allowed to start the RCIA classes prior to annulment? This also may be a question for the deacons or priest. Maybe the person(s) running the inquiry class can answer these questions also.
Thank you.
 
There more this Pope speaks and writes the more I realise what a gift to the Church in our time he is. Truly the holy spirit inspired the conclave.
 
Thanks so much for your quick reply. My investigation so far has revealed, that, yes, the Catholic Church does recognized marriage and baptism outside the church, and I’ll have to go through annulment, or attempt to go through it. It may take a year or longer, depending on whether or not my exhusband replies (which I doubt he will). Will I be allowed to start the RCIA classes prior to annulment? This also may be a question for the deacons or priest. Maybe the person(s) running the inquiry class can answer these questions also.
Thank you.
Yes, call the Church office and make an an appointment to discuss all these things. I went through the anullment process and there is much good intention out there, but much misinformation. There are hundreds of threads here on CAF about annullment and when they try to address a specific case they are nothing more than speculation. Every case is unique. Call the office. Ask about RICA while you are there.

-Tim-
 
Others are more knowlegable in this area than I, but thought a marriage outside the Church does not need to be annulled because the Church doesn’t recognize it to begin with. Or it may be true in some cases and not others,depending on denomination etc…?
I’m pretty sure that Camon 1055 changed it to all marriages are a Sacrament, so divorce is still not allowed. I was locked into a helpless situation until the Lord moved my wife into marring me again in Church. We must trust the Lord! We operate on God’s time, not ours.
 
Hi I am new here. My story. I’m not Catholic (yet). I was born, baptized, and raised protestant. I was married for 22 years, divorced. 12 years ago I met and married and man whom is Catholic. He was divorced, and his marriage annulled. Yes, we married in a protestant church. During the past year, we’ve been attending Catholic mass 1-2 times a week. I’m learning so much, and although I’ve always understood how important his faith is to him, I’m really only beginning to understand what he’s been missing, and what he’s given up to marry me. I have made a decision to join the church. So far, I’m going through the inquiry, with hopes of starting RCIA classes in the fall. I’m very excited and reading, studying everything I can get my hands on at the moment. There is so much to learn, and I feel my journey is well on it’s way right now.
I also, now, understand that we are living in sin, according to the Catholic Church, and this saddens me. We have been married for 12 years, and I’d never considered us living in sin.
My question is this. Will it ever be possible for me to join the church? My previous marriage is not annulled of course, because it was a protestant marriage. I’m not sure it will ever be possible to have it annulled. Will we ever be able to make this “right” and marry in the Catholic Church?
I have resolved to the fact that I may not be able to become Catholic because of my previous marriage, and this will not stop me from attending mass. But I know there is so much more. Did Jesus not die on the cross for our sins? How can I make this right?
I’m so excited to begin RCIA classes, but I’m also very nervous, that I may not be able to, because of my previous marriage.
If you have a deacon in your parish, go to him. Deacons are masters in the area of marriage. They spend much more time than priests do studying marriage law. This is truly their field. Many of them serve in the tribunals as well.
Others are more knowlegable in this area than I, but thought a marriage outside the Church does not need to be annulled because the Church doesn’t recognize it to begin with. Or it may be true in some cases and not others,depending on denomination etc…?
I’m pretty sure that Camon 1055 changed it to all marriages are a Sacrament, so divorce is still not allowed. I was locked into a helpless situation until the Lord moved my wife into marring me again in Church. We must trust the Lord! We operate on God’s time, not ours.
There are two kinds of marriages

Valid: A valid marriage is binding until death and indissoluble. It makes no difference that it is outside of the Catholic Church. Any marriage between two people of the same faith who marry in their faith is valid and can never be dissolved.

Sacramental: For a marriage to be a sacrament it must be valid. It must take place between two baptized Catholics, this actually includes the Orthodox as well. The witness to the marriage must have faculties to witness the marriage. Only the local diocesan bishop can grant faculties to a Catholic to witness a marriage and only an Orthodox Metropolitan can grant faculties to an Orthodox Christian to witness a marraige.

Two Baptists whose marriage is witnessed by a Baptist pastor, can be validly married, even though the marriage is not a sacrament. The same holds true for two Jews, etc.

When two people marry outside the Catholic Church, one Catholic and one non - Catholic, the marriage is not valid, because a Catholic cannot marry outside of the faith. There is a canonical exception for a Catholic that marries an Orthodox in an Orthodox rite. I’m not a marriage lawyer, so I can’t explain all the details. The why of it is simple. The Orthodox have valid and licit sacraments.

However, do not get the wrong impression. It’s not as simple as a Catholic and an Orthodox waltzing up the aisle and getting married. Both Churches have conditions that must be met. You need to speak to the proper authority.

When two Catholics who have never married before , marry outside the Church, they can fix this easily. Just approach your local parish.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
T

I’m not sure what the third paragraph, though, is supposed to really mean. It reads like typical obsurantist Vaticanese.
Actually, it’s very clear for those who have either a degree in Divinity, Ministry or Theology. The Holy Father tends to speak to this level.

Let’s see if I can break it down in one post.

A Brazilian family raised the issue of divorced couples who have remarried and cannot avail themselves of the Sacraments.

Let’s forget about the Brazilian family. That’s just a specific example.
**
Benedict XVI affirmed that "this is one of the the great causes of suffering for the Church today, and we do not have simple solutions. … **

Simply put, he’s telling his audience not to oversimplify. People tend to say, “Well, if you’re divorced and remarried, you’re living in sin. You need to separate.” Pope Benedict is saying, “Not so fast. It’s not that easy.” As hard as it is for the Church to see people in these situations, she’s not going to ask them to just walk away from the second marriage. She does not want to perpetuate a cycle of picking up a spouse and dropping him. She certainly does not want to break families apart. Most of these couples have children. Children are not to be made to bear the consequences of their parents’ mistakes.

**Naturally, one very important factor is prevention. **

This self-explanatory. We have to prepare people well for marriage and we have to put into place good support systems that help couples remain together. Today’s society is too ready to provide an quick way out.
**
This means ensuring that, from the beginning, the act of falling love is transformed in a more profound and mature decision. **

Parents, educators and those who help people prepare for marriage must help people understand that falling in love is more than a feeling. The person must choose to remain in love even when the feeling is gone. He must choose to work at keeping the love alive, even when the romance is not there.

Parents are failing their children int his respect. When a 14-year old comes home and announces that he has a girlfriend, parents take great delight in it, as if a 14-year old is really capable of falling in love. There was a time when kids that age were not allowed to have boyfriends. Today, parents encourage it. This is contrary to ensuring that falling in love is a mature choice.

**Another factor is that of accompanying people during marriage, to ensure that families are never alone but find authentic company on their journey. We must tell people in this situation that the Church loves them, but they must see and feel this love".
**

There was a time when much of the local parish activity was family oriented. Today, it seems to be oriented to the individual. There are ministries, groups and activities for each member of the family, but very little for the whole family to participate with other Catholic families. The sense of commitment to each other, to their family and to the community is lost. Couples often feel that they’re on their own after the wedding. It’s not a lie. We do leave them on their own.

There is an obsession with privacy in our society. The couple who interacts with the brother and sister-in-law or the parents-in-law on an on-going basis is not a common occurrence today. Few families have this kind of closeness.
**
Parishes and other Catholic communities "must do everything possible so that such people feel loved and accepted, that they are not ‘outsiders’ even if they cannot receive absolution and the Eucharist. **

Here, he’s speaking to the CAF Catholic. The Catholic who is very quick to jump and shout, “THEY’RE LIVING IN SIN.” Only God knows this for sure. We can only tell what it looks like to us. That does not give us the right to shove it in people’s faces. On the contrary. We have a moral duty to invite these couples to participate in parish life: mass, the bake sale, couple’s retreat, painting the playground, etc. In essence, he’s telling the CAF Catholic, “Knock it off and stop playing God.”
**
They must see that they too live fully within the Church. … **

People don’t have to stop living in the Church, because of their marital situation. It’s one thing to be unable to receive the Eucharist and quite another to be discouraged from parish life.
**
The Eucharist is real and shared if people truly enter into communion with the Body of Christ. Even without the ‘corporeal’ assumption of the Sacrament, we can be spiritually united to Christ".**

Even those who cannot receive Holy Communion, because objectively they are living in sin, can make spiritual communion and benefit from the Eucharist that way. Spiritual communion exists precisely for those who are unable to receive the physical sacrament. These folks should be taught and encouraged to do so.
 
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