"Divorced" Priests

[Monte1945]

thanks for all these comments, I’m sorry I dont want this to turn into a Christian ethical discussion on annulment. I will explore other avenues towards ordination from a civil divorced perspective and will report back if anything other that what might be expected comes to light. God Bless.

In many larger Catholic churches, there can be one priest assigned to receive all
annulments petitions. This particular Priest is sort of an expert on this subject.
He will screen all applicants and discuss with them the avenues of the churches
standing on annulments. It would be good if you could find one of these Priests
and go talk to him.

I say that, because I went to the one here in my Parish and in our conversation
he mentioned a number of ways the Church looks at the possibility of one
receiving an annulment. It is a very serious and sensitive procedure.

It is not something that can be achieved simply or quickly.

There consists many forms which must be filled out, witnesses to the marriage
from a number of non-related people of either side of the marriage… The Priests
of the church where the marriage took place… etc…

The average time involved in two to five years… (according to the Priest I talked
too)

My only intention for seeking an annulment was for me to seek admittance
into a Monastic Order… but yet, the process was extremely mentally difficult for me
to obtain an annulment and I backed off from seeking it.

The questions on the forms are of the nature which forces one to seek their own
truth within themselves for one to find their own true Christian path to take for the
good of the Mystical Body of Christ here on earth.

 

[angelic06]

Wow! That is not at all an accurate description of the Petrine Privilege, and the highlighted bit is absolutely not a Catholic understanding of the sacrament.

In a nutshell:

• 
  *]The Pauline Privilege is a process dissolving an otherwise valid marriage between parties who had not been baptized.
  *]The Petrine Privilege is a process dissolving an otherwise valid marriage between parties, of whom one was baptized and one was not.
  *]A baptized couple who are otherwise free to marry and exchange consent in an acceptable manner become validly and sacramentally married. If/when such a couple consummate that already valid and sacramental marriage it is rendered indissoluble
  
  Wow!
  
  tee

• 
  I mean no disrespect at all to marriage—I meant to say the same thing as the third of your points, my choice of wording just did not come out right. And I also misnamed the privileges and forgot entirely about one of them. Thanks for the correction.
  
  theologytable.com/new%20documents/Annulment.pdf

 

[Petermn]

thanks for sharing that monte1945, your situation is much like mine.

 

[Monte1945]

So - heres the deal. What if a man wants to become a deacon or Priest but doesnt want an annulment because he believes that he would be ‘twisting’ the truth in obtaining an annulment,In other words he entered into the marriage in full awarensess of his responsibilties but his wife left him. Any suggestions on this?
Thanks

He would not be able to take Holy Orders without an annulment. (Holy Orders:
to be a Priest or Deacon). It does not matter if his wife left him or the divorce was not
his fault. However, there is a large number of “reasons” where the church would grant
him an annulment.

If one is sincere in his Faith walk then the situation falls more to the person involved than it does the rules of the church.

The forms for seeking an annulment are very extensive and detailed. Once you begin reading and filling out the six page plus form you begin to see and understand the concept of the Church’s position on it. As you fill in the answers to the questions it bring to your mind the ways in which the Church sees the bond of matrimony from Her view and you can then see if you have the means to obtain a annulment. It will also include many other people who knew/know of your marriage than just you and your wife.

The Vow of Holy Orders includes Marriage and are considered “equal”. When one is married one is under a Holy Order Vow… Thus in life one can take the Vow of Holy Orders and then decide to switch the position of the different kind of Holy Order… I could be a Priest and if I decide to leave the priesthood and later marry that would be alright. As it is just switching my position within the same Holy Orders.

But to switch from Marriage to the Priesthood is a bit more complicated as there is another person involved… (the wife) Thus there is a need for an annulment investigation.
A marriage ceremony vows within the Catholic church is a vow made to God and the Priest who conducts the ceremony is just a witness to that Vow. The vow is not made to the church. The church requires the annulment in order to protect the one who is being
divorced making certain that something was out of order when that vow was made.
In order to make that point plain I would have to list out the reasons the Church can use
for granting an annulment which is a task consisting of more than I can personally do…

I was involved with an attempt to receive an annulment and I went for the first interview
and discovered that it consisted of facts which would not allow me to proceed in my quest.
(the facts was my decision and not the churches) That opportunity gave me the insight I am writing about this morning.

Hope this helps some.

 

[tee_eff_em]

The Vow of Holy Orders includes Marriage and are considered “equal”. When one is married one is under a Holy Order Vow… Thus in life one can take the Vow of Holy Orders and then decide to switch the position of the different kind of Holy Order… I could be a Priest and if I decide to leave the priesthood and later marry that would be alright. As it is just switching my position within the same Holy Orders.

But to switch from Marriage to the Priesthood is a bit more complicated as there is another person involved… (the wife) Thus there is a need for an annulment investigation.
A marriage ceremony vows within the Catholic church is a vow made to God and the Priest who conducts the ceremony is just a witness to that Vow. The vow is not made to the church. The church requires the annulment in order to protect the one who is being
divorced making certain that something was out of order when that vow was made.
In order to make that point plain I would have to list out the reasons the Church can use
for granting an annulment which is a task consisting of more than I can personally do.

With due respect, that does not sound at all like Catholic sacramentology, but it is difficult to know where to begin?

Holy Orders and Marriage are similar (you will find them listed together in the Catechism under “Sacraments at the Service of Communion”), but I would not go further to say one includes the other?

But primarily: It is routine for a married man to become ordained. It has never (to my knowledge) been routine for an ordained man to become married.

tee

 

[Petermn]

Yes - thanks again.
I feel in a similar situation and although I have not been to any interview I feel I have learned sufficiently to come to a decision that annulment is not really appropriate. I do however like the way you suggest that it might be a sort of change of sacrement, to leave marriage and take on priesthood. I feel my exwife might even support me in this but I still dont feel its appropriate as I myself would not have chosen to separate, if we were still married I would have tried for deacon but as we are not I would only seek ordination if it were acceptable from a civil divorced position… Hey - - - - - good to share thoughts … Thankyou

 

[Monte1945]

With due respect, that does not sound at all like Catholic sacramentology, but it is difficult to know where to begin?
Holy Orders and Marriage are similar (you will find them listed together in the Catechism under “Sacraments at the Service of Communion”), but I would not go further to say one includes the other?
But primarily: It is routine for a married man to become ordained. It has never (to my knowledge) been routine for an ordained man to become married.
tee

Sacraments are very simple… .It is a means to obtaining the “literal” Grace of God…
One receives the Grace of God to infuse that Grace within the “essence” of our humanity and to become… The Holy Ghost comes to us as in the form of our humanity being enhanced from the receiving of The Grace of God through many forms…

The priest has the ability and “power” to create and offer for us within his power of the laying of hands from the first apostles through all the bishops up to this very day the seven sacraments of the Church… That is the work of the Priest… but it is NOT the only way the Holy spirit of God and Grace can come to us… We can receive the Grace of God from praying ourselves, we can receive the Grace of God from the Word of God by reading the scriptures ourselves. We can receive the Grace of God from the Charity and love of our fellow Christian brothers and sisters…

It not the position of the person, it is the type of love from which comes from the person regardless of whether they are under Holy Orders or not.

To be a priest is being under the vow to be the loving Christian he is suppose to be to the people who need to obtain the sacraments of the church…

To be married is being under the vow to God to be a loving Christian husband and father to
his wife and children with the same love as the priest gives to the people.

One can be a Priest and leave the priesthood and become a husband and father…
this is acceptable to the church…

One can be married to a woman and have children and be divorced and become a priest, Brother or Deacon… and this can be accepted by the church. (with an annulment)

That was my point… and it does not seem to me, that I misunderstood the Sacramental system of the church…

 

[edward_george]

This isn’t completely true.

A decree of nullity is not **only **for the purpose of ensuring there is no impediment to a valid marriage. A decree of nullity, or lack of it, impacts the **canonical status **of an individual and certain rights within canon law.

As we have seen, a married man is **impeded **from becoming a priest. A man who has been married and divorced is canonically still a married man, and thus impeded from Orders. A man who has been married and divorced who has obtained a decree of nullity is NOT married and therefore is NOT impeded from Holy Orders.

Therefore, a decree of nullity is necessary to *remove *the impediment to Orders. It is possible, though rare, to be *dipsensed from *the impediment by a favor of the Holy See while still validly married.

Similarly, a man or woman’s ability to profess vows in a religious order would be impacted by their canonical status. Also the ability to hold certain offices and perform certain functions.

So, no a decree of nullity from an attempt at marriage is not “just” about the ability to enter into a future marriage.

This is not entirely correct. Marriage does not impede one from Holy Orders since the celibacy of the clergy is a disciplinary matter. If marriage were an impediment to Orders, then there wouldn’t be married clergy in the East, and the married ex-Anglican ministers who became Catholic priests under pastoral provision would not have been allowed to do so. Holy Orders, however, is an impediment to marriage. This is why a married deacon whose wife dies cannot remarry.

-ACEGC

 

[InternetWoman]

Would I be clouding the discussion if I noted that there are married priests? They are usually men who are coming over from the Anglican communion, but there are other converts that can get the “indult” to be ordained even though they are married.

I believe the Church teaches that while a married man can be ordained an ordained man can not then get married. Thus if the wife of a deacon or a married priest dies they can never remarry.

This would imply then, that a man who was married could get permission to be ordained - whether or not he has been divorced. That’s because priestly celibacy is a Church practice (OK Cannon law) but not a dogmatic/doctrinal declaration.

 

[Monte1945]

Yes - thanks again.
I feel in a similar situation and although I have not been to any interview I feel I have learned sufficiently to come to a decision that annulment is not really appropriate. I do however like the way you suggest that it might be a sort of change of sacrement, to leave marriage and take on priesthood. I feel my exwife might even support me in this but I still dont feel its appropriate as I myself would not have chosen to separate, if we were still married I would have tried for deacon but as we are not I would only seek ordination if it were acceptable from a civil divorced position… Hey - - - - - good to share thoughts … Thankyou

yes, it seems you are feeling a “call” and you are attempting to work it out… I think the best step you could take is to find a “spiritual director”… there is usually one in most larger churches… I know they can be found in all Diocese’s. Or you could email one on the internet…

Their main official duty is to talk to people about this very subject… To help you to understand your call and to give you step by step advice regarding it… They have
ways to help you to find your true call from certain programs which are steps in order
for you to understand your feelings…

If you would like… You can contact my spiritual director… who has been for me an excellent person to help me in this area… He is and has been a vocational director
for people who have the interest to go towards some Holy Vows for many years.
He has been a Monk in a Monastery of the strictest Order for 45 years now…

His name is: Bro. Francis and his phone number is: 417-683-3515
and his email address is:

avavocations@hughes.net

I sense your sincerity and inner struggle with these revelations you are feeling and
often, we can not work these things out alone… God’s Grace to understand
His calls to us, can often come to us through other Christians and I think it could
really aid you if you seek some advice and opinions from others who have went the way
you feel you are being pulled…

I was a Novice in a monastery forty five years ago… I felt I was being called to do something for God… and yet, the monastery life was a bit difficult for me at that young age.
But I did not think I had any gifts to be a Priest or someone who could manage any church structured position. I was very confused and unhappy… but I was willing to do it for God.

One day, in my fourth year of stay I was assigned to help a very elderly monk who had been there for over fifty years… And we had one hour a day, when we could go out in the garden area and talk quietly between one or two other fellow monks… And Brother Roderick and I were together when that “talk” time came. And we went to the garden together.

We sat and talked. he was about as simple minded a person as I had ever encountered before. So gentle and easy going… He was a Brother and that is about as simple a vocation that one might have.

He asked me if I why I wanted to be a Monk… (it takes six or seven years to take your vow after you enter) and I told him some holy remarks… of wanting to show God that I loved him and the fact that he sent his son to die for me… etc… and Bro. Roderick said too me.
" But Monte, God does not need you so much to show you love him… but he needs you to show God’s love in your life to others by your loving them with His kind of Love. It does not matter what position in life you take… you can be a Priest or a janitor… The important thing is how you show the Love He has put into your heart through the Churches Sacraments to the same people you come in contact with throughout your life"

Through his simple comment that afternoon and then through a few months of talking it over with my spiritual director I could see that our call is to show the love of God and it does not matter where we are, or what kind of position in life we might decide on…
Where ever we are at, who ever we are with… it is our call to show them the Love of God
in our lives and witness…

I left the Monastery and lived a very long life of being exposed to many different kinds of people and places… and I have tried to show the love of God to all of them…
I attend Mass, pray, read my scriptures and fellowship with other Christians to obtain the Grace of God to be the loving man God might want of me… Or at least to give a good fight to be that person… (I don’t always maintain the right level of the right kind of love)

I still go to different Monasteries and stay for from one week to a month… living with and praying with the Monks… and I am very satisfied that I did the right thing when I came
out from within the walls of silence and have spoken up for the world to hear of the Love of God for us all…

I hope for you a good Journey keeping in mind that the deepest and most intense journey of all is that journey one makes “within oneself”… !!