Divorced

[Psych77]

I have a question that is either really strange, or really obvious - I don’t know which.

My marriage ended in divorce, at the request of my wife (ex-wife, I guess). It is civil - I get the kids very frequently to visit, and I make sure she is taken care of financially. We work together on parenting, but whenever any other subject comes up, she clams up. The wounds are pretty deep, and we tried counseling multiple times. She has said very clearly that there is no potential for reconciliation.

I am aware that this means that I must live celibately from now on (I do not believe that we have any plausible grounds for annulment, and neither of us is pursuing it). I believe that good can come out of this, in that I can perhaps be a witness of the faith to a world that believes a person cannot have a healthy and happy live without romantic/sexual connection. It is far from easy, and far from painless, but I am trying to embrace it for good.

The issue that comes up is that I have re-connected with a (female) friend from high school by chatting online. We live 2000 miles apart, and have both acknowledged that it is better for both of us that this is the case. When we were in high school, we were never really dating, but we did to a lot of passionate necking (I know, marginally moral at best, but it was a long time ago, and I am different now), and liked each other a great deal.

We talk a lot, and give each other a lot of comfort. Sometimes we reminisce about our little “trysts” (we kind of laugh about them), and sometimes we lament the fact that we can’t be closer together - we don’t talk about sex or dating as such, but we do mention how, feeling as lonely and rejected as we both do (we are both divorced), it would be nice to have someone to cuddle with, even platonically. Comforting. We have a great deal of affection for one another and have both expressed love for one another - again, both having acknowledged that we will not be together and that this is for the best. We have verbally characterized this love as sort of “friendship or whatever else this is.” We affirm each other, and support each other, and give each other kind words. For both of us, this “text relationship” is touching something very deep that was hurting.

I don’t know if you could say that we are “in love,” but some of the feelings are the same - I look forward to getting messages from her, I get the little flutters and excitement when I hear from her, seeing her smile in pictures lights me up, and I smile for no reason for the first time in I don’t know how long. If we were together, there is no doubt that I would like to hold her, kiss her - and probably that would lead to desires for other things. But we are apart, and only send each other messages, with no thought to even going out to visit.

Now, here’s the problem: I know that our civil divorce does not alter the reality of the sacrament of marriage. I also know that if my wife and I were still united, what I am currently participating in would be considered an emotional affair, and would be terribly wrong. In light of the fact that our sacrament means that I still can’t have a physical affair, does that mean that what I am doing now is sinful?

I don’t really feel badly about this, but I also know that feelings don’t always lead us in the right direction morally.

Naturally, I would like to be told that this is perfectly alright. But it is more important that I get the truth.

Thanks.

 

[pensmama87]

I would stop. At the very least, you’re putting yourself in a near occasion of sin (if you did live closer to each other, or if she surprised you by showing up in town one day, what would happen? What would you be tempted to have happen?)

Does this friend of yours know your understanding of the sacrament of marriage? If she is not Catholic/not practicing, she may see you as single even though you are married.

You might consider consulting your priest about pursuing an annulment. It may be as you say and that you don’t have good grounds for it and that in all likelihood your marriage is valid after all, but I’m of the opinion that you might as well consult someone about it.

 

[Xantippe]

I would stop. At the very least, you’re putting yourself in a near occasion of sin (if you did live closer to each other, or if she surprised you by showing up in town one day, what would happen? What would you be tempted to have happen?)

Does this friend of yours know your understanding of the sacrament of marriage? If she is not Catholic/not practicing, she may see you as single even though you are married.

You might consider consulting your priest about pursuing an annulment. It may be as you say and that you don’t have good grounds for it and that in all likelihood your marriage is valid after all, but I’m of the opinion that you might as well consult someone about it.

Yes.

 

[john1513]

Unless I missed something, you may have just answered your own question:

I also know that if my wife and I were still united, what I am currently participating in would be considered an emotional affair, and would be terribly wrong.

It sounds like you’re still married. You should either seek an annulment or try to reconcile with your wife.

 

[myers8]

What God wants is ‘LOVE’ There are many reasons for getting or having a divorce. The problem with the Catholic dogma is there is no love (no new partner unless church individuals approve circumstances) for individuals that cannot stay in a married relationship that is more harmful to both. I can see why the church ‘individuals’ try to control divorce, annulments, separations, and want them to remain in a hellish relationship instead of being happy as those making the NEW RULES have not experienced that dysfunctional part of life. We are all human with human desires & majority want a loving lasting real relationship.
Pope Francis is trying to follow God’s Rules/laws in a loving manner. Circumcision can also mean of the heart-do your research.
Peace to All

 

[styrgwillidar]

I have a question that is either really strange, or really obvious - I don’t know which.

My marriage ended in divorce, at the request of my wife (ex-wife, I guess). It is civil - I get the kids very frequently to visit, and I make sure she is taken care of financially. We work together on parenting, but whenever any other subject comes up, she clams up. The wounds are pretty deep, and we tried counseling multiple times. She has said very clearly that there is no potential for reconciliation.

I am aware that this means that I must live celibately from now on (I do not believe that we have any plausible grounds for annulment, and neither of us is pursuing it). I believe that good can come out of this, in that I can perhaps be a witness of the faith to a world that believes a person cannot have a healthy and happy live without romantic/sexual connection. It is far from easy, and far from painless, but I am trying to embrace it for good.

The issue that comes up is that I have re-connected with a (female) friend from high school by chatting online. We live 2000 miles apart, and have both acknowledged that it is better for both of us that this is the case. When we were in high school, we were never really dating, but we did to a lot of passionate necking (I know, marginally moral at best, but it was a long time ago, and I am different now), and liked each other a great deal.

We talk a lot, and give each other a lot of comfort. Sometimes we reminisce about our little “trysts” (we kind of laugh about them), and sometimes we lament the fact that we can’t be closer together - we don’t talk about sex or dating as such, but we do mention how, feeling as lonely and rejected as we both do (we are both divorced), it would be nice to have someone to cuddle with, even platonically. Comforting. We have a great deal of affection for one another and have both expressed love for one another - again, both having acknowledged that we will not be together and that this is for the best. We have verbally characterized this love as sort of “friendship or whatever else this is.” We affirm each other, and support each other, and give each other kind words. For both of us, this “text relationship” is touching something very deep that was hurting.

I don’t know if you could say that we are “in love,” but some of the feelings are the same - I look forward to getting messages from her, I get the little flutters and excitement when I hear from her, seeing her smile in pictures lights me up, and I smile for no reason for the first time in I don’t know how long. If we were together, there is no doubt that I would like to hold her, kiss her - and probably that would lead to desires for other things. But we are apart, and only send each other messages, with no thought to even going out to visit.

Now, here’s the problem: I know that our civil divorce does not alter the reality of the sacrament of marriage. I also know that if my wife and I were still united, what I am currently participating in would be considered an emotional affair, and would be terribly wrong. In light of the fact that our sacrament means that I still can’t have a physical affair, does that mean that what I am doing now is sinful?

I don’t really feel badly about this, but I also know that feelings don’t always lead us in the right direction morally.

Naturally, I would like to be told that this is perfectly alright. But it is more important that I get the truth.

Thanks.

File a request for a declaration of nullity. It achieves several things-

• As long as there is the possibility to file, there will be the temptation to let things go farther with someone than they should. You may allow yourself or someone else to get their hopes up. You need to know whether that door is open or closed now before someone gets hurt. It will be easier to commit to living chastely having a definitive answer.
• It sets a boundary and condition that you can enforce with this other woman. She is and can only be a friend and sounding board.
• It is a way of doing everything you can to release/let go of your wife.
• It can be a gift to your wife. Will she be tempted in the future? Is she as firm in the faith as you are? If she won’t request the declaration, is it possible she may get into something in the future where she should have?
• Regardless of the answer, it will help you understand yourself and your marriage better than you do now. Particularly if you take the opportunity to read the witness statements and decision. Keeping in mind everyone is telling the truth as they see it. If you’re not dead-set on a particular answer to the petition this is easier to do without being resentful of their statements.
• Should your wife get involved with someone in the future it would be better if your kids understood that you’d followed the process and adhered to the authority of the church in assessing the validity of your marriage.

 

[Psych77]

John - wife has stated very clearly that she does not want a reconciliation. There is a point where trying for one despite her rejection of the idea becomes profoundly disrespectful, and the antithesis of love. Even God does not force his love on us.

 

[Psych77]

Styrg (sorry, can’t recall the rest) -

I have some problems with the idea of seeking an annulment:

• I feel like it would be lying to seek annullment of a marriage I do not believe is invalid. Like trying to convince a Church tribunal of something I believe is false.
• I think that annullment has become the too-easy answer for Catholics to avoid living the difficult aspects of their faith. “Catholic? Divorced? Want to have another partner? No problem, just get an annullment!” Almost every time I see a Catholic resource on divorce, they deal predominantly with the issue of annulment. As though they don’t want to admit that sometimes living out the faith is hard, and even painful. And how do you suppose that leaves a person feeling when his/her annulment application has been denied?
• The last two popes (before Pope Francis) have criticized the liberality of the U.S. tribunals in granting decrees of nullity. Now, if the tribunals are doing something wrong, this is troubling - after all, a decree of nullity doesn’t change the reality, but is only supposed to bring to light the truth that a marriage was not valid. If these tribunals are being “too liberal,” it suggests that they could be decreeing that certain marriages were invalid when they actually were not.
• We tell gay people, single people who have not found a marriagable partner yet, and others that, in order to follow the teaching of Christ, they must embrace abstinence. And yet when we, ourselves are faced with the prospect of perpetual sexual continence, we immediately run to the answer, “well, I must be the exception…my marriage must not have been valid. I can’t be called to permanent abstinence.” It seems very hypocritical. Are we willing to walk the walk?

I have no intention of becoming sexually involved again. I feel a sense of closeness with this person, and for once don’t feel isolated. Sometimes desires for physical affection are something I experience, but this is why I am glad that we are a long distance apart. She knows my understanding of marriage as permanent and irrevocable. She is also glad of the distance of our separation, because she has a physical disability which would make any relationship with any physical aspect (even just affection) rather demanding on her. I guess right now I am just feeling very emotionally empty and void, and don’t know where to go to feel closeness. I have no friends (I have virtually no social skills), and supporting two households and spending as much time with the kids as I can, I have no time to make friends. I can live without sex, kissing, even holding and cuddling. But I need love. And I guess my faith isn’t strong enough for me to just believe that God loves me and have that be enough. I need to have another human in my life who can love me on the basis of equals. That’s my current struggle.

 

[pianistclare]

Styrg (sorry, can’t recall the rest) -

I have some problems with the idea of seeking an annulment:

• I feel like it would be lying to seek annullment of a marriage I do not believe is invalid. Like trying to convince a Church tribunal of something I believe is false.
• I think that annullment has become the too-easy answer for Catholics to avoid living the difficult aspects of their faith. “Catholic? Divorced? Want to have another partner? No problem, just get an annullment!” Almost every time I see a Catholic resource on divorce, they deal predominantly with the issue of annulment. As though they don’t want to admit that sometimes living out the faith is hard, and even painful. And how do you suppose that leaves a person feeling when his/her annulment application has been denied?
• The last two popes (before Pope Francis) have criticized the liberality of the U.S. tribunals in granting decrees of nullity. Now, if the tribunals are doing something wrong, this is troubling - after all, a decree of nullity doesn’t change the reality, but is only supposed to bring to light the truth that a marriage was not valid. If these tribunals are being “too liberal,” it suggests that they could be decreeing that certain marriages were invalid when they actually were not.
• We tell gay people, single people who have not found a marriagable partner yet, and others that, in order to follow the teaching of Christ, they must embrace abstinence. And yet when we, ourselves are faced with the prospect of perpetual sexual continence, we immediately run to the answer, “well, I must be the exception…my marriage must not have been valid. I can’t be called to permanent abstinence.” It seems very hypocritical. Are we willing to walk the walk?

I have no intention of becoming sexually involved again. I feel a sense of closeness with this person, and for once don’t feel isolated. Sometimes desires for physical affection are something I experience, but this is why I am glad that we are a long distance apart. She knows my understanding of marriage as permanent and irrevocable. She is also glad of the distance of our separation, because she has a physical disability which would make any relationship with any physical aspect (even just affection) rather demanding on her. I guess right now I am just feeling very emotionally empty and void, and don’t know where to go to feel closeness. I have no friends (I have virtually no social skills), and supporting two households and spending as much time with the kids as I can, I have no time to make friends. I can live without sex, kissing, even holding and cuddling. But I need love. And I guess my faith isn’t strong enough for me to just believe that God loves me and have that be enough. I need to have another human in my life who can love me on the basis of equals. That’s my current struggle.

Well, so what are you equating this old friend to then? A warm and fuzzy dog to cuddle with?
If you keep interacting with her, you will eventually fall in love. Or she will with you. And you say you have no intention of seeking an annulment or marriage or intimacy.
So why keep going in the “relationship”?
Seems cruel to the other woman and naïve for yourself, IMHO.
I’m being totally serious. Get a dog. Volunteer with the homeless.
There are many ways to experience love. Get out there and do good in the world.
Develop those social skills. It CAN be done.
Either it’s important to you or not.
But this fantasy relationship online, is unfair to the both of you.

 

[afs108]

Hi Psych77,

First of all, it goes without saying that I’ll say a prayer for you.

I very much respect your stepping back from the “annulment as Catholic divorce” option - if you believe the sacrament of marriage was validly confected, that is indeed the thing to do.

Of course, asking the diocesan tribunal to examine your marriage should just be that - an objective examination to determine whether or not it’s valid. As you point out, the current climate around marriage tribunals mostly consists of trying to persuade the court of invalidity (or, in the worse cases, trying to find an excuse or loophole to declare nullity).

To be frank with you, judging from the information you have offered, as well as the level-headedness your post manifests, I’d say that this emotional intimacy you describe is, as you fear, inappropriate for your situation, and therefore could be described as adulterous towards your wife.

Honestly, there are no easy answers - the consequences of Original Sin and our concupiscence see to that. It’s tough to say (and I’d hate anyone who would tell me this), but, it sounds like the way for you to be the best husband you can be (which, as a married man, is God’s will for you) is to pray for your wife and kids, always be open to reconciliation with your wife (though you are correct not to inappropriately force the matter) and shoulder the resulting loneliness as a specific suffering, using this suffering to grow in sanctity - the fruits of your sanctification through suffering being a great contribution to the life of Divine Grace in your family - imperfect though the current situation may be.

Finding oneself lonely, with no close friends, little to no spiritual or emotional support is common. You often feel that, if only you, at least, had a team mate. Platitudes such as “God loves you” feel a little empty - if only you had someone real, sat on the sofa next to you - then, you could grasp the loving support. This is surprisingly common amongst young (and not so young) men; in fact, as may be obvious from the language in those last few sentences, I have the dubious pleasure of belonging to this particular club.

I highly recommend you take this to your Spiritual Director - if you don’t have one, get one and then seek his advice and support. I can pretty much guarantee you that they will have heard loneliness issues before, and will help you shoulder this cross in a meritorious manner.

With regards to friendships or close relationships, these are essential to your sanity. What about your family members - parents, siblings and others usually know you best and, when times are tough, are (should) always be there for you. What of your parish - is there a men’s group you could join? If so, this would probably be a priority. Are there other single men in the pews at Mass? Why not introduce yourself to them after Mass and invite them for lunch or coffee - in fact, try and recruit a few to go together - and make a regular thing out of it.

Do you currently live alone? How about getting a flat/housemate? Not only would this help with the bills, but you’re living with your mate - you see each other through stuff - that’s what mates do. Of course, ideally, this would be a Catholic gentleman who you are already friendly with - the best place to meet those being your parish or online (right here on this website, for example!).

Why don’t you pray to the archangel Raphael? His intercession is often sought by those who are lonely or seeking companionship.

So, conclude an overly long post, have a sit down with your parish priest, explain / rant about how you feel, and listen to his advice.

Pray, frequent the Sacraments, stay true to the Faith, and let the Holy Spirit use this awful situation to make a saint out of you, for the good of your family.

With my prayers,

 

[ClearWater]

Styrg (sorry, can’t recall the rest) -

I have some problems with the idea of seeking an annulment:

• I feel like it would be lying to seek annullment of a marriage I do not believe is invalid. Like trying to convince a Church tribunal of something I believe is false.
• I think that annullment has become the too-easy answer for Catholics to avoid living the difficult aspects of their faith. “Catholic? Divorced? Want to have another partner? No problem, just get an annullment!” Almost every time I see a Catholic resource on divorce, they deal predominantly with the issue of annulment. As though they don’t want to admit that sometimes living out the faith is hard, and even painful. And how do you suppose that leaves a person feeling when his/her annulment application has been denied?
• The last two popes (before Pope Francis) have criticized the liberality of the U.S. tribunals in granting decrees of nullity. Now, if the tribunals are doing something wrong, this is troubling - after all, a decree of nullity doesn’t change the reality, but is only supposed to bring to light the truth that a marriage was not valid. If these tribunals are being “too liberal,” it suggests that they could be decreeing that certain marriages were invalid when they actually were not.
• We tell gay people, single people who have not found a marriagable partner yet, and others that, in order to follow the teaching of Christ, they must embrace abstinence. And yet when we, ourselves are faced with the prospect of perpetual sexual continence, we immediately run to the answer, “well, I must be the exception…my marriage must not have been valid. I can’t be called to permanent abstinence.” It seems very hypocritical. Are we willing to walk the walk?

I have no intention of becoming sexually involved again. I feel a sense of closeness with this person, and for once don’t feel isolated. Sometimes desires for physical affection are something I experience, but this is why I am glad that we are a long distance apart. She knows my understanding of marriage as permanent and irrevocable. She is also glad of the distance of our separation, because she has a physical disability which would make any relationship with any physical aspect (even just affection) rather demanding on her. I guess right now I am just feeling very emotionally empty and void, and don’t know where to go to feel closeness. I have no friends (I have virtually no social skills), and supporting two households and spending as much time with the kids as I can, I have no time to make friends. I can live without sex, kissing, even holding and cuddling. But I need love. And I guess my faith isn’t strong enough for me to just believe that God loves me and have that be enough. I need to have another human in my life who can love me on the basis of equals. That’s my current struggle.

It is hard to live a life without love, to be sure. It will be very difficult to sustain over a lifetime. You’re right.

 

[Caroline723]

I think your statement that you can live without sex, kissing, cuddling, but that you need love, is a bit of a delusion. Love can be found in many forms, but you are interested in it specifically with this one woman from your past, that you were romantically involved with and would be interested in again, if you were free to do so. If you continue down this path, texts and phone calls are going to grow dissatisfying.

You are right that it is difficult to live alone, without the love and comfort of having a partner in life. It absolutely stinks. And tons of single people do this because they have no other choice. I absolutely believe that someday Catholic theologians will look back and look identify the biggest suffering of our time is the frustration of all those vocations.

I feel badly for your situation. You have a hard, lonely path to adjust to. But many people have done this before you. And you can still be a faithful husband, a loving father. You can still live your vocation.

I would suggest joining a mens group at your parish, or joining the KOC, or Catholic Charities, or something that will give you some Catholic male friendships.

If I can make one more suggestion of a book: I received for Christmas a book by Victor Frankl, “Man’s Search for Meaning”. It’s a short book and an easy read, about his observations about human nature while in the concentration camp. He writes how a common mistake of man is to expect that meaning in life is to be found in receiving, but in reality, true meaning in life is found in giving. I think you would really benefit from picking this book up. I think it might shore up your courage to do what your conscience is telling you is the higher good you should be seeking.

 

[Psych77]

Thank you everyone for your answers. They are mostly hard to hear (except for the few that utterly ignore sound doctrine), but I thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. AFS, I particularly appreciate your thoughts, because you, of all the people here, seem to be the one most responsive to my thoughts, and seem to be most “tuned in” to my actual feelings, and the real seat of my conflict. Or maybe I just feel I can trust you, because it is too easy for someone who has never found him/herself in this situation to speak about all the options I have. You understand, because it seems that you are there.

All the practical advice offered (volunteering, etc.) is not practical for me, for various reasons. My dance card is pretty much full until my children grow up, which will be a good many years. I don’t really have much time to spare (almost none) for a long time to come. I guess for right now I just need to get used to a certain degree of isolation.

Thanks again, everyone.

Signing off.

 

[pianistclare]

Thank you everyone for your answers. They are mostly hard to hear (except for the few that utterly ignore sound doctrine), but I thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. AFS, I particularly appreciate your thoughts, because you, of all the people here, seem to be the one most responsive to my thoughts, and seem to be most “tuned in” to my actual feelings, and the real seat of my conflict. Or maybe I just feel I can trust you, because it is too easy for someone who has never found him/herself in this situation to speak about all the options I have. You understand, because it seems that you are there.

All the practical advice offered (volunteering, etc.) is not practical for me, for various reasons. My dance card is pretty much full until my children grow up, which will be a good many years. I don’t really have much time to spare (almost none) for a long time to come. I guess for right now I just need to get used to a certain degree of isolation.

Thanks again, everyone.

Signing off.

Take the kids with you. It’s good to teach them to be unselfish.

 

[His_helpmeet]

What God wants is ‘LOVE’ There are many reasons for getting or having a divorce. The problem with the Catholic dogma is there is no love (no new partner unless church individuals approve circumstances) for individuals that cannot stay in a married relationship that is more harmful to both. I can see why the church ‘individuals’ try to control divorce, annulments, separations, and want them to remain in a hellish relationship instead of being happy as those making the NEW RULES have not experienced that dysfunctional part of life. We are all human with human desires & majority want a loving lasting real relationship.
Pope Francis is trying to follow God’s Rules/laws in a loving manner. Circumcision can also mean of the heart-do your research.
Peace to All

If a couple is in a situation where they cannot stay together, it’s not wrong for them to separate. NO ONE would command that someone stay in an abusive or adulterous relationship, and the Church allows people to seek divorce, without committing sin, in cases where they need protection for themselves and/or their children. However, this needs to be done with the understanding that divorce does not alter the ecclesiastical nature of the marriage. In many cases, if there was no intent to be faithful and/or the abuse (or signs of it coming) preceded the marriage, a declaration of nullity can be granted.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Styrg (sorry, can’t recall the rest) -

I have some problems with the idea of seeking an annulment:

• I feel like it would be lying to seek annullment of a marriage I do not believe is invalid. Like trying to convince a Church tribunal of something I believe is false.
• I think that annullment has become the too-easy answer for Catholics to avoid living the difficult aspects of their faith. “Catholic? Divorced? Want to have another partner? No problem, just get an annullment!” Almost every time I see a Catholic resource on divorce, they deal predominantly with the issue of annulment. As though they don’t want to admit that sometimes living out the faith is hard, and even painful. And how do you suppose that leaves a person feeling when his/her annulment application has been denied?
• The last two popes (before Pope Francis) have criticized the liberality of the U.S. tribunals in granting decrees of nullity. Now, if the tribunals are doing something wrong, this is troubling - after all, a decree of nullity doesn’t change the reality, but is only supposed to bring to light the truth that a marriage was not valid. If these tribunals are being “too liberal,” it suggests that they could be decreeing that certain marriages were invalid when they actually were not.
• We tell gay people, single people who have not found a marriagable partner yet, and others that, in order to follow the teaching of Christ, they must embrace abstinence. And yet when we, ourselves are faced with the prospect of perpetual sexual continence, we immediately run to the answer, “well, I must be the exception…my marriage must not have been valid. I can’t be called to permanent abstinence.” It seems very hypocritical. Are we willing to walk the walk?

I have no intention of becoming sexually involved again. I feel a sense of closeness with this person, and for once don’t feel isolated. Sometimes desires for physical affection are something I experience, but this is why I am glad that we are a long distance apart. She knows my understanding of marriage as permanent and irrevocable. She is also glad of the distance of our separation, because she has a physical disability which would make any relationship with any physical aspect (even just affection) rather demanding on her. I guess right now I am just feeling very emotionally empty and void, and don’t know where to go to feel closeness. I have no friends (I have virtually no social skills), and supporting two households and spending as much time with the kids as I can, I have no time to make friends. I can live without sex, kissing, even holding and cuddling. But I need love. And I guess my faith isn’t strong enough for me to just believe that God loves me and have that be enough. I need to have another human in my life who can love me on the basis of equals. That’s my current struggle.

In fairness, not all cases of nullity are this way. DH was married before he married me and received a declaration of nullity. He and his ex primarily married because she was pregnant and the easiest way for him to stay in the country and be a dad to his kid was to marry her. (DH is on the autistic spectrum, so it would have been more difficult, and very costly, for him to go to a post-secondary institution and stay on a student visa; he also has limited career options because of his autism.) His ex was unfaithful and left him. After they split up, she told him, and confirmed to friends that she had said this, that as far as she was concerned, marriage was glorified common-law with ceremonial benefits, the vows she took were purely symbolic and didn’t really mean anything, and if she wasn’t happy she had a free pass to leave. Clearly, we can see that she did not understand the nature of marriage and that they were under pressure to marry. At the time of their marriage, neither was Catholic (she was a non-practicing Lutheran and DH had never been baptized); they were married civilly and had no marriage preparation. (Both became Catholic after the marriage.)

I’m not convinced that necessarily all cases of declarations of nullity are simply due to a “Catholic divorce” principle. At least in DH’s situation, that certainly was not the case.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Thank you everyone for your answers. They are mostly hard to hear (except for the few that utterly ignore sound doctrine), but I thank you for the (name removed by moderator)ut. AFS, I particularly appreciate your thoughts, because you, of all the people here, seem to be the one most responsive to my thoughts, and seem to be most “tuned in” to my actual feelings, and the real seat of my conflict. Or maybe I just feel I can trust you, because it is too easy for someone who has never found him/herself in this situation to speak about all the options I have. You understand, because it seems that you are there.

All the practical advice offered (volunteering, etc.) is not practical for me, for various reasons. My dance card is pretty much full until my children grow up, which will be a good many years. I don’t really have much time to spare (almost none) for a long time to come. I guess for right now I just need to get used to a certain degree of isolation.

Thanks again, everyone.

Signing off.

Psych- for the record. I lived your situation. Wife moved out in Jan 2010 (loved me but wasn’t in love with me…), I had full custody of one child by May 2010, divorce final August 2010 (no-fault state), October 2010 ended up with full custody of my other minor child. Wife visited, I would absent myself during her visits- my having custody was her choice. Pondered over whether to petition for a declaration of nullity. I was much like you in terms of believing my marriage valid, but, my wife had left Catholicism and was making choices, choices the kids were seeing. I was pretty devastated, lonely, and confused. If I loved my wife, shouldn’t I have as much concern for her soul as my own? If I could remove obstacles now to her reconciliation with the church- was it more loving to at least try, or to possibly falsely hold onto some kind of claim on her.

Filed petition in September 2011, received positive final decision in November 2012. I still don’t date, it was never about needing someone in my life. It was about establishing the truth-- again, if you’re open to either positive or a negative decision the process is very enlightening and you will learn much about yourself and your marriage that you wouldn’t have known otherwise.

I’ll be praying for you and your family. The divorce and family break-up was much harder on the kids than myself. Sounds like you’re doing right by your kids-- always make sure they know they have a home with you, including their own space in it which you maintain as theirs even when they are not there. If they’re old enough for cell phones, get them and call them every night they aren’t with you, even to just say goodnight.

 

[pianistclare]

Psych- for the record. I lived your situation. Wife moved out in Jan 2010 (loved me but wasn’t in love with me…), I had full custody of one child by May 2010, divorce final August 2010 (no-fault state), October 2010 ended up with full custody of my other minor child. Wife visited, I would absent myself during her visits- my having custody was her choice. Pondered over whether to petition for a declaration of nullity. I was much like you in terms of believing my marriage valid, but, my wife had left Catholicism and was making choices, choices the kids were seeing. I was pretty devastated, lonely, and confused. If I loved my wife, shouldn’t I have as much concern for her soul as my own? If I could remove obstacles now to her reconciliation with the church- was it more loving to at least try, or to possibly falsely hold onto some kind of claim on her.

Filed petition in September 2011, received positive final decision in November 2012. I still don’t date, it was never about needing someone in my life. It was about establishing the truth-- again, if you’re open to either positive or a negative decision the process is very enlightening and you will learn much about yourself and your marriage that you wouldn’t have known otherwise.

I’ll be praying for you and your family. The divorce and family break-up was much harder on the kids than myself. Sounds like you’re doing right by your kids-- always make sure they know they have a home with you, including their own space in it which you maintain as theirs even when they are not there. If they’re old enough for cell phones, get them and call them every night they aren’t with you, even to just say goodnight.

Very compassionate post. Thank you for saying what the rest of us couldn’t say.
God bless you.

 

[Psych77]

I can see how some of my earlier posts may have seemed judgmental to others. I’m sorry if anyone felt that way. I know that often decrees of nullity are sought for reasons other than wanting a “Catholic divorce.” I guess I have been pretty bitter for the last year and some odd months - believing that I am now called to live the sacrifices that my faith sometimes entails, going online to seek some kind of support (or even the knowledge that I’m not the only one facing this), and having virtually every source drum “annulment” into my ear. Living in a world that ceaselessly reinforces the message that your life is empty and incomplete if you don’t have a romantic (or, anymore, sexual) partner. People not even knowing how to talk to me because that is not a part of my life. Trying to live the hard truths, and even among the people at church hearing them say, “Well, you know, the Church teaching is just out of touch with reality. They have no right to tell you marriage is forever.” Physical touch has always been the only way I feel love - I can know that someone loves me by the kindness they show me, but the emotional emptiness only fills up when someone hugs me, cuddles with me - the sadness is only comforted when someone holds me. But I don’t dare pursue that kind of touch - feeling as lonely as I do, I’m afraid of where my mind and heart would take that. And in the Church in this part of the country, it is hard to find someone who can relate to the periodic continence involved in NFP (they pretty much disregard Church teachings in this respect), much less someone who can relate to looking ahead into a celibate future, swimming entirely against the cultural current. I am embracing this because I believe that God can show me a life I never knew could happen, and people can see through me that there is happiness even in the suffering that faith can often demand. But right now it hurts, and I don’t know how to be happy, and I don’t know how to deal with the pain. I guess I’ll stop my tirade for now.

 

[Psych77]

Thank you again, everyone. I don’t know if I’ll ever be ready to submit a case for evaluation of the validity of my marriage. I can’t imagine the ex ever starting to date again, as she is too committed to her faith. I think that what I described in the first post is a lot closer than anything I could imagine her doing. If the annulment were in place, and she found happiness, I can only imagine being happy for her. I didn’t want this to happen. And I still love her. But I also understand that when we are together, she is not happy, and then I am not happy. I’m just not able to be the person she needs, and maybe she isn’t able to be the person I need. Anyway, I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut. Nice to discuss this in a place where I don’t need to be so much on my guard against people trying to advise me to violate my faith (I see a therapist, and this particular issue I don’t discuss in detail - he is the 4th or 5th therapist I have seen, and the first one who doesn’t actively assert that “maybe this faith isn’t right for you,” or some such).