Divorcing parents

[migurl]

My parents have had their ups and downs over the last 30 years. THey were married in a Catholic Church even though my Dad was not catholic at the time. After he converted about 15 years ago, they had their marriage blessed in the church.
5 months ago my Dad attempted suicide. It was a mix of financial stress, medial issues and depression that led him to his attempt. He recieved treatement but has not met my mother expectations for improvement. She now is filing for divorce from him stating that he can’t give her what she needs. My father is against it, he wants to work things out but she claims it is not possible and she can’t live under the same roof as him. She claims he is abusive and she is afraid of him. Truth be told he has said things that were hurtful ( i have witnessed and so have my many siblings) but he has NEVER laid a hand on her EVER and in fact has become much more mild mannered in recent years.
I don’t know what to do. I expressed my dislike for the divorce, telling my mother that I thought it wasn’t Christian to divorce a man who had just been at the lowest point in his life and needed extra prayers, support and love in order to heal anbd overcome his problems with depression etc. She has stopped talking to me becasue I do not support her decision to divorce my Father.
Any advice would be appreciated!

 

[AnnArbor]

My parents have had their ups and downs over the last 30 years. THey were married in a Catholic Church even though my Dad was not catholic at the time. After he converted about 15 years ago, they had their marriage blessed in the church.
5 months ago my Dad attempted suicide. It was a mix of financial stress, medial issues and depression that led him to his attempt. He recieved treatement but has not met my mother expectations for improvement. She now is filing for divorce from him stating that he can’t give her what she needs. My father is against it, he wants to work things out but she claims it is not possible and she can’t live under the same roof as him. She claims he is abusive and she is afraid of him. Truth be told he has said things that were hurtful ( i have witnessed and so have my many siblings) but he has NEVER laid a hand on her EVER and in fact has become much more mild mannered in recent years.
I don’t know what to do. I expressed my dislike for the divorce, telling my mother that I thought it wasn’t Christian to divorce a man who had just been at the lowest point in his life and needed extra prayers, support and love in order to heal anbd overcome his problems with depression etc. She has stopped talking to me becasue I do not support her decision to divorce my Father.
Any advice would be appreciated!

Are you and your siblings all adults? Or are there still minor children at home?
And has your mother confirmed that your father has never laid a hand on her?

The reality is that nobody, not even a couple’s children, knows all the details of their marital relationship. I am not judging the rightness of your mother’s decision, and I know how hard it is on children – even adult children-- when their parents divorce.

However, this is an issue in their relationship, and if you can find a way to maintain loving contact with both of them, it will be the best thing for all concerned in the long run. You don’t need to approve of your mother’s choice – but you’ve already voiced your concerns, and now you may need to simply let them work it out.

Sorry you are going through this – especially difficult at this time of year.

 

[Xantippe]

My parents have had their ups and downs over the last 30 years. THey were married in a Catholic Church even though my Dad was not catholic at the time. After he converted about 15 years ago, they had their marriage blessed in the church.
5 months ago my Dad attempted suicide. It was a mix of financial stress, medial issues and depression that led him to his attempt. He recieved treatement but has not met my mother expectations for improvement. She now is filing for divorce from him stating that he can’t give her what she needs. My father is against it, he wants to work things out but she claims it is not possible and she can’t live under the same roof as him. She claims he is abusive and she is afraid of him. Truth be told he has said things that were hurtful ( i have witnessed and so have my many siblings) but he has NEVER laid a hand on her EVER and in fact has become much more mild mannered in recent years.
I don’t know what to do. I expressed my dislike for the divorce, telling my mother that I thought it wasn’t Christian to divorce a man who had just been at the lowest point in his life and needed extra prayers, support and love in order to heal anbd overcome his problems with depression etc. She has stopped talking to me becasue I do not support her decision to divorce my Father.
Any advice would be appreciated!

If I were you, I would stay far out of this and tell your mom that you understand that you will have to agree to disagree on this.

With regard to your father never laying a hand on your mom–just five months ago, he attempted to kill himself. If he is also verbally abusive, it would not be unreasonable for your mom to fear that if he were willing to kill himself, that he would be willing to kill both her and himself. If he doesn’t value his life, why should he value hers?

If you are going to talk to anybody, talk to your dad and encourage him to continue therapy for his depression and stress. Also, perhaps a personal finance course is in order if there are financial problems? I always recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University (a 9 week course), but there are other good options. Bear in mind that a lot of people get back together after divorce, so this is not necessarily the end. Your mom may just need a break from your dad, who sounds exhausting.

 

[skigirl1689]

If I were you, I would stay far out of this and tell your mom that you understand that you will have to agree to disagree on this.

With regard to your father never laying a hand on your mom–just five months ago, he attempted to kill himself. If he is also verbally abusive, it would not be unreasonable for your mom to fear that if he were willing to kill himself, that he would be willing to kill both her and himself. If he doesn’t value his life, why should he value hers?

If you are going to talk to anybody, talk to your dad and encourage him to continue therapy for his depression and stress. Also, perhaps a personal finance course is in order if there are financial problems? I always recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University (a 9 week course), but there are other good options. Bear in mind that a lot of people get back together after divorce, so this is not necessarily the end. Your mom may just need a break from your dad, who sounds exhausting.

The above states my opinion more succinctly than I would have.

You need to stay out of it for your own sanity and for the preservation of the relationships you have with each of your parents. This doesn’t mean not having your own feelings and opinions about the situation. You just don’t want to be in the middle of it, trying to mediate things. I have, for years, tried to “solve” my parents issues (I’d say their marriage is always in a state of functional dysfunction, if that is possible), and it just hurt me.

Support your father in his recovery, but I wouldn’t allow either of your parents to use you as a sounding board for what is happening between them or use you as their go-between. It is their marriage, and as hard as it is to see them both suffering, pray for them, and let things play out as they will.

 

[styrgwillidar]

My parents have had their ups and downs over the last 30 years. THey were married in a Catholic Church even though my Dad was not catholic at the time. After he converted about 15 years ago, they had their marriage blessed in the church.
5 months ago my Dad attempted suicide. It was a mix of financial stress, medial issues and depression that led him to his attempt. He recieved treatement but has not met my mother expectations for improvement. She now is filing for divorce from him stating that he can’t give her what she needs. My father is against it, he wants to work things out but she claims it is not possible and she can’t live under the same roof as him. She claims he is abusive and she is afraid of him. Truth be told he has said things that were hurtful ( i have witnessed and so have my many siblings) but he has NEVER laid a hand on her EVER and in fact has become much more mild mannered in recent years.
I don’t know what to do. I expressed my dislike for the divorce, telling my mother that I thought it wasn’t Christian to divorce a man who had just been at the lowest point in his life and needed extra prayers, support and love in order to heal anbd overcome his problems with depression etc. She has stopped talking to me becasue I do not support her decision to divorce my Father.
Any advice would be appreciated!

As a divorced man: you’ve stated your opinion to your mother on divorce. Done.

As others have said, you will never know, nor should you, all the things that have gone on between your mother and father. It would be very wrong for them to bring you into that. It’s between them.

Maintain your separate relationships with your parents, I will not ask you to respect things or decisions that are not respectable. But you can always be polite. Think of what will be in your long term interests and decide on the kind of relationship you want with your parents. Then act accordingly. ETA: this could be sending your mother a note stating that you would like a relationship with her, that you’ve said your peace regarding her decision to divorce and don’t intend to discuss it again.

Do not discuss their relationship with them, or get between them. Or allow them to get involved in your relationship with the other parent.

As for your father, here’s an author I found helpful in understanding depression-
Anne Sheffield “Depression Fallout” also a website: depressionfallout.org

 

[Xantippe]

I also recommend Lundy Bancroft’s very influential book Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. (Bancroft’s specialty is abusive men, but I have to note that a lot of the techniques he mentions are available to abusive women, too.)

If you read Why Does He Do That, you may discover that the reason you feel such a powerful urge to rush in and appease your father is that he is an abusive person.

I have to confess that in my family circle, there’s one couple with a very difficult husband and a sweet wife and that for years, I was allowing myself to punish the sweet wife for her husband’s behavior. I wouldn’t push back against the husband, but I would push back against the wife, even when she didn’t deserve it, because I wasn’t scared of her and I was scared of him. It took me a long time to realize that that’s what I was doing and to stop doing it. I would encourage the OP to think hard about how she treats her mom and dad and if she might possibly be doing something similar.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

You need to stay out of it for your own sanity and for the preservation of the relationships you have with each of your parents. This doesn’t mean not having your own feelings and opinions about the situation. You just don’t want to be in the middle of it, trying to mediate things. I have, for years, tried to “solve” my parents issues (I’d say their marriage is always in a state of functional dysfunction, if that is possible), and it just hurt me.

Support your father in his recovery, but I wouldn’t allow either of your parents to use you as a sounding board for what is happening between them or use you as their go-between. It is their marriage, and as hard as it is to see them both suffering, pray for them, and let things play out as they will.

This.

My parents divorced when I was an adult and it was awful: manipulation from all sides, pressure, etc. I thought I’d go crazy.

Keep your distance and don’t let them pull you into the drama. You have told your mother your opinion, and perhaps leave it at that. You will just end up hurt if you get too involved.

 

[SED]

You are not wrong for the way you are feeling. It is extremely painful for everyone including adult children. Just continue do your best for all of your family. Don’t rule out counseling for yourself to heal from this as well.

Praying for you and your parents.

God, from you every family in heaven and on earth takes its name. Father, you are love and life. Through your Son, Jesus Christ, born of woman, and through the Holy Spirit, fountain of divine charity, grant that every family on earth may become for each successive generation a true shrine of life and love.

Grant that your grace may guide the thoughts and actions of husbands and wives for the good of their families and of all the families in the world. Grant that the young may find in the family solid support for their human dignity and for their growth in truth and love. Grant that love, strengthened by the grace of the sacrament of marriage may prove mightier than all weaknesses and trials through which our families sometimes pass.

Through the intercession of the Holy Family of Nazareth, grant the church may fruitfully carry out her worldwide mission in the family and through the family. We ask this of you, who are life, truth, and love with the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

 

[migurl]

Thank you all for your words and prayers!

There are 2 of us who are adults and have moved out while there are 5 still at home ranging from older toddler to almost 18.

The whole situation sucks.
I understand that my Mom is hurting and I don’t blame her for feeling how she feels I just don’t approve of how she is treating everyone. She has been really terrible to my father since his attempt-openly blaming him for every problem that arises.She constantly throws his attempt in his face which I feel is mean spirited. I get that she would feel abandoned but I don’t see how her therapist would not be helping her deal with that in a way that helps her and doesn’t involve constantly throwing that in his face.
I don’t know, maybe its easier for me to say that because I see his attempt differently.

It is also troubling that my brother and I have both told her we did not approve of jumping straight to divorce (as opposed to legal or a trial separation) and she has decided to refuse to talk to either of us.
I also found out that she has demanded my Father sign the divorce papers that she has had drawn up on her own and in the papers she states that she has sole custody and he is allowed to see the kids every Sunday and every other Saturday.
To me it just seems like too much too fast. She got angry at him when he told her he wanted to have someone look over the paperwork and that it would be a few days before he could get that done.
Well, I will take some of your advice and remain civil to my Mom and keep the relationships separate and do my best to be a supportive daughter and sibling to those still at home.

Why does life have to be like this sometimes?

Counsiling for myself might be a good idea if things don’t settle down!

 

[migurl]

“Putting himself out of his misery yes, but putting his children into a deep depression with her picking up the pieces”

This is where I disagree with My mother-it wasn’t about putting himself out of his misery. My Father felt that he was ruining everyone elses lives. He felt that he was not wanted -something my Mother perpetuated by constantly complaining about everything he did-and that if they could just get his life insurance then the family would be better off.
People who are depressed enough to end their lives, IMO, cannot be held as responsible as a perfectly healthy person doing something cruel.
The Church itself has changed its stance on suicide victims. in the past if one committed suicide they were not allowed a Christian burial, but now the Church recognizes that only God can judge the culpability that a depressed individual has.
This is the perception that I have on it. My father felt lonely, depressed, worthless, unloved and unwanted. He told me that in the past when he felt like that he was able to think of his children and it pulled him away from that ledge-this time it didn’t work. He kept thinking about how much better off the kids and my mother would be without him.
I feel that my mother has the right to be hurt and worried and unsure of the future and I have no problem with a separation to figure things out-to make sure that my father is in a more stable place. What I can’t handle is her treatment of him. The lashing out, constantly throwing his attempt in his face as if he was 100% in his right mind and did it just to punish her. To try and “teach him a lesson” by kicking him out of his own home and refuse to take responsibility for any issues in their marriage whatsoever.
I don’;t know, maybe its easier for me to feel this way because my father has never done anything hurtful to me ever and I feel a tremendous amount of guilt in regards to his attempt. I asked myself what I could have said or done that might have helped him overcome it. Could I have been in contact more? Invited him over more? More Kind in general when we spoke etc.

 

[Groo]

I think you have a good handle on a rough situation. Your mom sounds like my friend’s wife. She berates him all of the time and never lets go of a mistake. I can see where this type of woman would drive a man to suicide.

Your father might be better off without your mother, but I think he is right that they should try to work things out for the sake of your siblings.

Since you asked for advice, my advice is to advocate for what is in the best interest of your siblings. I can’t imagine your mom’s plan of taking everything your dad has, including parental access, is in their best interest. Joint custody would be the most reasonable, but sadly your mom is probably going to clean his clock in the divorce because of the suicide attempt.

You are a smart lady. Trust your own judgment and do what you think is best.

 

[Xantippe]

You didn’t indicate by your first post that your father had young toddlers at home still and I think that changes the picture dramatically I would believe that this may be contributing to your mothers obvious anger. His depression could be taking “center stage” at their home. When a parent dies children are devastated, usually for a lifetime. She may see it that he was willing to devastate his own children deliberately. Putting himself out of his misery yes, but putting his children into a deep depression with her picking up the pieces.

Do you know of small children that have been through a parent’s death? It is devastating. Your mother is probably dealing with the stark reality that your father was willing to do this to his children, and may, possibly do it again in the future. That may be where part of her anger is stemming from and may be the reason for her lack of support and sympathy for him. Wanting to separate and get her children out of there also seems like an act of protection for her young children as well, making me think that all of this has to do with them as much as it has to do with her.

migurl you have five children, think how upset you get when your husband is unfair to you, then think how upset you get when you believe your husband is unfair to your children and your children are in tears because “Daddy wasn’t nice.” As women we don’t like it when our husbands are less than kind to us, but the instinct to protect our little children can get pretty fierce sometimes. Your father has mental illness and depression, your mother has five children she wants to raise, they need to do so together and need to see a priest probably to do what is in the best interest of the children this really is a huge mess please be assured of my prayers.

Yes, yes, yes!

The OP’s mom is probably worried that any day, she’s going to come home and find that he’s finally killed himself. And just think, it could be one or more of your younger siblings that finds him.

And that’s not even the worst possibility.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familicide

 

[Xantippe]

I think you have a good handle on a rough situation. Your mom sounds like my friend’s wife. She berates him all of the time and never lets go of a mistake. I can see where this type of woman would drive a man to suicide.

Your father might be better off without your mother, but I think he is right that they should try to work things out for the sake of your siblings.

Since you asked for advice, my advice is to advocate for what is in the best interest of your siblings. I can’t imagine your mom’s plan of taking everything your dad has, including parental access, is in their best interest. Joint custody would be the most reasonable, but sadly your mom is probably going to clean his clock in the divorce because of the suicide attempt.

You are a smart lady. Trust your own judgment and do what you think is best.

Ay yay yay.

You think joint custody of five children, including a toddler, with a father who just five months ago tried to kill himself is a good idea? The OP’s dad can probably barely make himself a sandwich, let alone take care of five kids.

 

[migurl]

Ay yay yay.

You think joint custody of five children, including a toddler, with a father who just five months ago tried to kill himself is a good idea? The OP’s dad can probably barely make himself a sandwich, let alone take care of five kids.

My Dad can take care of himself quite well thank you. He received and continues to recieve help for himself.

So you think that feeling depressed and under extreme financial pressure makes you a moron? Some one who can’t realize a mistake that they made?
My Dad has apologized to everyone for what he did, he realized that it was not going to help his family to have him dead and gone. But what he doesn’t need, IMO, is his wife validating his previous feelings of inadequacy and being unwanted. Its like she is telling him “Yeah, you were right before-your children and I are better off if you aren’t around. We just want money from you, you can visit occasionally so I can get a break from them but otherwise you don’t need to be in their lives.”
How is THAT supposed to help him heal and get past it? How is THAT christian at all?
My Father works hard, gives my Mother as much money as he can spare despite how she treats him. He has gone out of his way to help her with kids, errands, medicine and dong things to help out when he can (even more so than he did prior to his attempt) and her way of saying Thanks and keep trying is to divorce him?

 

[Xantippe]

My Dad can take care of himself quite well thank you. He received and continues to recieve help for himself.

Great!

So you think that feeling depressed and under extreme financial pressure makes you a moron? Some one who can’t realize a mistake that they made?

S**everely depressed people often have trouble taking care of their basic physical needs. If that is not the case with your dad, that’s fantastic. **

My Dad has apologized to everyone for what he did, he realized that it was not going to help his family to have him dead and gone. But what he doesn’t need, IMO, is his wife validating his previous feelings of inadequacy and being unwanted. Its like she is telling him “Yeah, you were right before-your children and I are better off if you aren’t around. We just want money from you, you can visit occasionally so I can get a break from them but otherwise you don’t need to be in their lives.”
How is THAT supposed to help him heal and get past it? How is THAT christian at all?
My Father works hard, gives my Mother as much money as he can spare despite how she treats him. He has gone out of his way to help her with kids, errands, medicine and dong things to help out when he can (even more so than he did prior to his attempt) and her way of saying Thanks and keep trying is to divorce him?

Your mom has dealt with your dad for the past 30 years and some of those years were probably pretty bad. How about giving her credit for those years?

She may just need a break from your dad and some time to figure out what life without him actually means. If he is actually making as big an effort as you describe, it’s quite possible that he will win her over, divorce or no divorce. Give your mom a break, get out of your parents’ marriage, and let them fix things or not fix things. Heck, maybe babysit for them so that they can go out to dinner by themselves or do some other date-type thing.

 

[Xantippe]

Also, come to think of it, are the financial problems part of your parents’ marital problems? Did one or both of them commit some sort of huge financial blunder or series of mistakes that is contributing to your mother’s desire for divorce?

You don’t have to answer that one, but bear in mind that money problems are one of the classic issues that lead to divorce. There are a million ways to get this one wrong–secret spending, secret debt, shutting a spouse out of the budgeting process, refusing to budget, refusing to involve a spouse in major financial decisions, being financially abusive by keeping a spouse “poor” when the family is actually well off, dysfunctional businesses, etc.

 

[migurl]

I don’t mind answering it, most, if not all, of the financial problems stem from my Mom’s business. Her accountant screwed up and didn’t file things and she makes very little. I have suggested she do something else and get rid of the business and get out from under the mountain of stress that she is under due to the business but as of yet she has not done that.

 

[Xantippe]

I don’t mind answering it, most, if not all, of the financial problems stem from my Mom’s business. Her accountant screwed up and didn’t file things and she makes very little. I have suggested she do something else and get rid of the business and get out from under the mountain of stress that she is under due to the business but as of yet she has not done that.

Not surprised.

Is there somebody she trusts that’s her age that could tell her the same thing?

 

[Xantippe]

I am just offering that taking obvious sides here and being critical of your mother is not going to contribute to your parents getting back together if that is your ultimate goal.

Yes.

I don’t know your parents and you may be spot on that your mother is less than supportive of your father. However he cannot count on her to pull him out of this depression anyway, because she is a fallen human being .
**
Yes. She has been with him 30 years and she couldn’t keep him from being deeply depressed. If she couldn’t keep him from falling into depression, she can’t be considered wholly responsible for pulling him out. She can’t save him from this.**

 

[migurl]

I appreciate the (name removed by moderator)ut and I do feel more anger with regards to my Mom because I feel sorry for my Dad. He isn’t perfect and has apologized for his mistakes. I feel like my Mom thinks she has nothing to fix about herself and that it is all my Dad’s fault. SHe said as much to his doctors-that it was all on him. I feel badly for her too, I get that not having someone emotionally supportive in your life can be exhausting-I just don’t understand why she has to be so hateful to him and anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with her. I support time apart, I think they both have things they need to work on as individuals and then as a couple but throwing the past in my dad’s face is not right. She has been brining up things from 30 years ago, things he did as a dumb 19 year old new dad, things he has apologized for already, things that God has forgiven after my Dad’s baptism when I was 16 years old. My Mom told me that all his sins were washed away by God and that we must also forgive and forget his past-and yet here she is, 9 years later throwing that past in his face. It just really makes me sad and at times I feel that something else is going on with My Mom. She is pushing for divorce, in such an aggressive, I want it now kind of way and it baffles me. The Church allows for legal separation as a way to ensure financial stability and establish visitation etc. and it doesn’t go against the vows they took. Its not an attempt to break something God joined together while divorce is.
This whole thing is just tearing me apart. I love my parents and I want them to be healthy and whole individuals but I can’t support jumping straight to divorce no matter who is pushing for it. I feel like she expects me to support her decision 100% and I can’t.
One of the reasons I haven’t said too much negative about my father is because I have chosen to let go of his past and focus on helping him improve himself and connect with him in a way that leads him closer to my and my family and to God. I truly beleive that he has changed and that his suicide attempt has opened his eyes to many new things. When I speak with him I feel that he listens. If I disagree with him he respects that instead of hanging up on me and refusing to take my calls. He isn’t perfect and I feel that he could try harder but his pride or fear (or both) is stopping him. He feels betrayed and unloved and I am trying to counter that so that he doesn’t give up on trying to better himself.
My husband and I along with my Dad’s Mother are trying to help him try harder so that if all else fails he can say he gave it everything he had, but it is hard to convivnce him to go that extra mile when the person we are trying to get him to go to is treating him with such cruelty and indifference. I just wish I could get my Mom to calm down and put her anger aside long enough to listen instead of hanging up when she hears something she doesn’t like.