I am sorry. This was not directed at you. Please accpet my appologies.Ralphinal, you must have me confused with someone else, as I have not “flung dung” but I have tried to lead this forum back to what it should be by reminding LaMar that it is disrespectful to the Catholics on this Catholic forum to refer to our faith as a cult and a fairy tale. I’m sure you would agree with me that that kind of dialogue is unproductive and unnecessarily hostile.
Thank you. Are the plain and precious parts that were lost or removed necessary?The teaching is that many of the plain and precious parts have been removed or lost. How much was by evil people and how much by accident bad transcription etc. I’ll not speculate.
Quite. Just think about how much contention and confusion go around over issues like Authority and how are we saved. If the bible was 100% clear on these issues there would not be thousands of different Christian churches. Just look at how many topics on this forum are related to how people see different things when they read the Bible.Thank you. Are the plain and precious parts that were lost or removed necessary?
Okay, just what were these plain and precious parts? Why is there no record of any objection to the removal of these texts? There is plenty of record showing the Early Church Fathers interpreted the Eucharist and other Doctrines the way the Church does today, so why isn’t there anything from the opposing point of view. It seems to me, what the LDS expect non-LDS to accept is a conspiracy so complete, no record of it exists in history. However, for something that big, a lot of people would have to be involved. Keeping all of those people quiet on a conspiracy of that magnitude defies logic.Quite. Just think about how much contention and confusion go around over issues like Authority and how are we saved. If the bible was 100% clear on these issues there would not be thousands of different Christian churches. Just look at how many topics on this forum are related to how people see different things when they read the Bible.
These missing teachings are vital for our understanding of God and his plan for us.
I agree. There are many so-called conspiracies (religious and otherwise) that are nothing more than misinformation cobbled together and repeated over and over to a credulous public. There is nothing logical or verifiable about many Mormon claims. When faced with these questions, Mormons fall back on “faith” and “burning in the breast”, and when all else fails, there’s always the statement that we are all “apostate”. It may work for some people, but it cannot be said to be intellectually honest.Okay, just what were these plain and precious parts? Why is there no record of any objection to the removal of these texts? There is plenty of record showing the Early Church Fathers interpreted the Eucharist and other Doctrines the way the Church does today, so why isn’t there anything from the opposing point of view. It seems to me, what the LDS expect non-LDS to accept is a conspiracy so complete, no record of it exists in history. However, for something that big, a lot of people would have to be involved. Keeping all of those people quiet on a conspiracy of that magnitude defies logic.
It need not be a very large conspiracy. It is well documented that many of the monks recopying scrolls where illiterate. Day the pictures as best you can and anything that looks like a mistake is not because God would not allow a mistake as prevailing thoughts could introduce all sorts of errors.Okay, just what were these plain and precious parts? Why is there no record of any objection to the removal of these texts? There is plenty of record showing the Early Church Fathers interpreted the Eucharist and other Doctrines the way the Church does today, so why isn’t there anything from the opposing point of view. It seems to me, what the LDS expect non-LDS to accept is a conspiracy so complete, no record of it exists in history. However, for something that big, a lot of people would have to be involved. Keeping all of those people quiet on a conspiracy of that magnitude defies logic.
Ok, that is what I was afraid of. If those missing parts are necessary in order for the teaching to be known properly then there is no way to validate it’s true meaning. I can decide to believe that this book or that enterpretation is the key to unlocking it but how would I discern one claim over another? If something is seen once and long ago forgotten it is too easy to contrive a replica. Even if the real thing is found how could it be distinguished from the replica’s after the knowledge of what it looks like is forgotten?Quite. Just think about how much contention and confusion go around over issues like Authority and how are we saved. If the bible was 100% clear on these issues there would not be thousands of different Christian churches. Just look at how many topics on this forum are related to how people see different things when they read the Bible.
These missing teachings are vital for our understanding of God and his plan for us.
Kind of rough. That problem is one of the reasons why LDS believe that a complete restoration not merely some patch work was needed. And that a living prophet is a must. When moses was around any doctrinal problem could be resoled quickly without much debate.Ok, that is what I was afraid of. If those missing parts are necessary in order for the teaching to be known properly then there is no way to validate it’s true meaning. I can decide to believe that this book or that enterpretation is the key to unlocking it but how would I discern one claim over another? If something is seen once and long ago forgotten it is too easy to contrive a replica. Even if the real thing is found how could it be distinguished from the replica’s after the knowledge of what it looks like is forgotten?
No it is not evidence, it’s your interpretation and speculation presented as though it carries the weight of evidence.Just how much of what was taken from where by whom I really don’t know, but the high levels of confusion and lack of clarity in the Bible about many basic and vital things is evidence that such errors happened.
Would God inspire people to write things down in such a way as to create the level of confusion and hostility that is common between the various sects of Christianity?No it is not evidence, it’s your interpretation and speculation presented as though it carries the weight of evidence.
When the Bible was compiled there were no “various sects”. The answer to the question would God inspire confusion is “no” but the “various sects” is not relevant to the compilation of the Bible.Would God inspire people to write things down in such a way as to create the level of confusion and hostility that is common between the various sects of Christianity?
The Bible I read says that God is not into that.
Oh so everyone was getting along great when the empireWhen the Bible was compiled there were no “various sects”. The answer to the question would God inspire confusion is “no” but the “various sects” is not relevant to the compilation of the Bible.
That heresies were identified and remedied has no bearing on the accuracy of Biblical texts.Oh so everyone was getting along great when the empire
ordered a bunch of people to get together to sort out their disagreements.
And they got it all so right that no one has ever seen a need to choose between what they read in the bible and what the CC teaches?That heresies were identified and remedied has no bearing on the accuracy of Biblical texts.
The subject was the accuracy of the Bible. You have not made a credible case that the Bible is inaccurate. I know that Mormons tell a story that the Bible is full of inaccuracies, that doesn’t make it so. All the points you have raised are not relevant to the points you have made about the accuracy of the text.And they got it all so right that no one has ever seen a need to choose between what they read in the bible and what the CC teaches?
Teancum, I can’t accept that God would start a work and not complete it. That’s kinda what has to be in order for the bible to not even be able to be patched. To have to be restored. actually I can’t call it restored if it was never stored in the first place.Kind of rough. That problem is one of the reasons why LDS believe that a complete restoration not merely some patch work was needed. And that a living prophet is a must. When moses was around any doctrinal problem could be resoled quickly without much debate.
The Bible was a collection of holy writings and yes it never was 100% , but the church Christ set up was for a time.Teancum, I can’t accept that God would start a work and not complete it. That’s kinda what has to be in order for the bible to not even be able to be patched. To have to be restored. actually I can’t call it restored if it was never stored in the first place.
Well there wasn’t any confusion for a long time. You can say the counsels were evidence of confusion but really there is no difference in the calling of counsels and the way LDS doctrine is ratified. (where is the definitive statement of LDS doctrine?) Both claim to be lead by God, LDS through “continuing revelation” and the Catholic church through the “guidance of the Holy Spirit”.Would God inspire people to write things down in such a way as to create the level of confusion and hostility that is common between the various sects of Christianity?
The Bible I read says that God is not into that.
Teancum, I’m sure you know the many biblical references to the Church’s rock solid gates of hell prevailing inextinguishable visibility. I believe the devil and his work is subject to time but Christ’s? Anyway, teancum, I find you a person of virtue and I appreciate your conversation. I have wandered from my original curiosity. I think I may if I were mormon have a wait and see attitude toward the DNA results. I doubt though that the presence of a field of research that is functional as a means of new discovery and usefullness in medicine and other disciplines could be ignored for very many generationsThe Bible was a collection of holy writings and yes it never was 100% , but the church Christ set up was for a time.