Do all religions have good in them?

[bella5110]

Sure, but youll have to allow me to finish this essay first. Which is consequently on Paul and his dealings hehe. After im done Ill be more than happy to argue with u

Baby, I’m not here to argue, but to defend…

 

[Northwind]

As I said the further away in time the writing is, the more likely it is to attribute Jesus with the Divine. But even so, this is not a public declaratgion. A conversation that is almost literally “water cooler” talk, isn’t exaclty an announcement to the masses…

This is just one reference. You had said in an earlier post that Jesus never said He was God or the Messiah and this post was a clear cut post that He did indeed say He was the Messiah. I will post more later on His claims of deity for you if you like. The initial conversation to the woman at the well was a public declaration, He ended up staying on two days and many believed in Him.

John 4:39-42
39 And from that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all the things that I have done.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to Him, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His word; 42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

The Gospel of John was written later but that doesn’t pose any problems concerning the divinity of Jesus. First as an eyewittness, John knew firsthand of Jesus’ deity so there was no need for any development in his mind of who Jesus was.

Second, Paul wrote Colossians around 64 A.D. and in Colossians we see a very well developed Christology. There are many instances where Paul simply uses the term ‘Christ’ with no other qualifier. The people at Colossae knew exactly who Paul was referring to when he said Christ. More to come…

 

[Valke2]

First of all this thread is meant for me since I started Islam 101. You Corvidae said that there can be some good that comes out of Satanism. That’s what you said. Maybe you should tell the people the truth. Satan is Satan, an evil despicable thing who is trying to destroy the world. But gee, let’s see if anything good comes out of that??

Well, God already destroyed the world once and I assume that some good came of that or else why would He do it?

 

[Valke2]

Jesus started one church, not 30,000 churches with contradictory beliefs. To know that His one true church is the Holy Catholic Church, and to turn your back on it is a grave mistake. Have you studied the Early Church Fathers?? I gather you didn’t. History is on my side as a Catholic. We are the only religion you can trace back to 2,000 years with an unbroken link. no one else can claim this. No one.
Jesus said His church will never die. We’ve been here 2,000 years and are not going away. More and more people are coming home to Rome, whether you like it or not.

I’m happy your numbers are increasing. Mazel tov. Trace what back? As usual, your posts are too intellectual for me. All I can tell you is that Jews have been around for a while as well.

 

[Valke2]

His claims were to your people who rejected Him. No matter what He said or done, including His miracles ,you still rejected Him. He who came to save you and me was rejected in His own world.
It wasn’t much later that John wrote his letters. Instead of worrying about time frames Mr. Valke, I suggest you pay attention to what he wrote and worry about what is written.

miracles shmericals. We’ve seen plenty of miracles. The miracles that Jesus is said to have performed would not ensure that he was the Messiah and in fact, were not a condition of being the Messiah. If Jesus didn’t publically tell the Jews that he came to save them, you shouldn’t have spent 2,000 years blaming us for his death or for rejecting him. He had his chance to make the big announcement. I mean, being God is something worth telling people, isn’t it? And you can’t blame people for not believing you are God if you don’t tell them you’re God in the first place.

So, what exactly is it that the Jews, during Jesus’ lifetime, rejected? Before something can be rejected, it has to be offered.

 

[rtconstant]

I think this has gone beyond the scope of the OP. The OP was asking if good exists within all religions and somehow this has become a debate about Ultimate Truth.

 

[Valke2]

This is just one reference. You had said in an earlier post that Jesus never said He was God or the Messiah and this post was a clear cut post that He did indeed say He was the Messiah. I will post more later on His claims of deity for you if you like. The initial conversation to the woman at the well was a public declaration, He ended up staying on two days and many believed in Him.

I had said, that he made no public declaration. That he told a few people in private is not the same thing. A conversation with a woman in a public place is different than a public declaration., I was talking about something like making hte announcement while he was ministering to the masses, such that they were.

John 4:39-42
39 And from that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all the things that I have done.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to Him, they were asking Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His word; 42 and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.”

That’s closer. But still not a direct quote from Jesus. And again, one of the later writings. The Divinity of Jesus clearly increases over time. But still, no real direct declaration to the Jews. The Samaritans weren’t exactly friendly neighbors with the Jews.

 

[bella5110]

miracles shmericals. We’ve seen plenty of miracles. The miracles that Jesus is said to have performed would not ensure that he was the Messiah and in fact, were not a condition of being the Messiah. If Jesus didn’t publically tell the Jews that he came to save them, you shouldn’t have spent 2,000 years blaming us for his death or for rejecting him. He had his chance to make the big announcement. I mean, being God is something worth telling people, isn’t it? And you can’t blame people for not believing you are God if you don’t tell them you’re God in the first place.

So, what exactly is it that the Jews, during Jesus’ lifetime, rejected? Before something can be rejected, it has to be offered.

Not The Messiah?? Raising people from the dead (Lazarus etc…) is not enough? Making blind men see? Feeding 5,000 people on a few fish? Changing water into wine? I could go on and on with Jesus’s miracles. If that isn’t enough to make the Jewish people believe, then what is? Being God is worth telling people in which He did and in which the Jews still rejected Him. They were afraid of this new king, that He was going to restore order. Can’t change history Mr. Valke. It is what it is.

 

[Northwind]

That’s closer. But still not a direct quote from Jesus.

I did include this in my earlier post…

John 4:25-26
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

I would regard this as a direct quote. Again, I will post more later on what He said among the Jews that they would have interpreted very clearly what His claims were. And again, John was an eyewittness. He wasn’t merely regurgitating a higher Christology that had become more complex or crystalized since the ascension as the opening words to 1 John indicate…

1 John 1:1-2
1:1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of Life-- 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-

I’ll be on the pc on and off the rest of the night…thanks

 

[Valke2]

Not The Messiah?? Raising people from the dead (Lazarus etc…) is not enough? Making blind men see? Feeding 5,000 people on a few fish? Changing water into wine? I could go on and on with Jesus’s miracles. If that isn’t enough to make the Jewish people believe, then what is? Being God is worth telling people in which He did and in which the Jews still rejected Him. They were afraid of this new king, that He was going to restore order. Can’t change history Mr. Valke. It is what it is.

in a word, no. Other rabbis had ressurected the dead. Miracle cures were common. The great sages were said to be able to travel gerat distances in very short periods of time. There was at least one rabbi who could see your entire future by looking into your eyes. Lots of rabbis cast out lots of demons.

But more importantly, none of those miracles are a condition of the Messiah, as set forth in the prophecies.

 

[Valke2]

I did include this in my earlier post…

John 4:25-26
25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”

And as I said, that is not the public declaration that I was talking about,. Jesus never once announced to the masses, such as during his Sermon on the Mount or during other sermons, that he was God or the Messiah.

We should probably start a new thread to continue this.

 

[bella5110]

in a word, no. Other rabbis had ressurected the dead. Miracle cures were common. The great sages were said to be able to travel gerat distances in very short periods of time. There was at least one rabbi who could see your entire future by looking into your eyes. Lots of rabbis cast out lots of demons.

But more importantly, none of those miracles are a condition of the Messiah, as set forth in the prophecies.

Which Rabbi resurrected the dead? Who was this Rabbi who could see your entire future by looking into your eyes? Who are these lots of Rabbis who cast out demons? Miracle cures were common? Please elaborate counselor.

 

[Loginus]

in a word, no. Other rabbis had ressurected the dead. Miracle cures were common. The great sages were said to be able to travel gerat distances in very short periods of time. There was at least one rabbi who could see your entire future by looking into your eyes. Lots of rabbis cast out lots of demons.

But more importantly, none of those miracles are a condition of the Messiah, as set forth in the prophecies.

OMG! I didnt know Superman was a jew!

 

[Valke2]

Which Rabbi resurrected the dead? Who was this Rabbi who could see your entire future by looking into your eyes? Who are these lots of Rabbis who cast out demons? Miracle cures were common? Please elaborate counselor.

I believe the prophet Elizar ressurected the son of a poor woman. And the Talmud speaks of a rabbi who accidently killed another rabbi and who then resurrected him. I can’t recall the name but will get it for you shortly.

 

[Valke2]

As for casting out demons, you couldn’t swing a dead cat in biblical times without hitting a demon. every medical malady was attributed to demons. And the Talmud has plenty of stories about Rabbis casting out demons and even barring them from coming into town. Again, I’ll look up the stories and post them for you at another time.

The point is casting out demons would not be any proof whatsoever to a Jew living in Jesus’ time that he was the Messiah.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

If, there are people that are both for and against every religion. And if they cannot both be right, then everyone who is for any particular religion, must be wrong, except for those who are in favor of whichever one religion is right;

Hi Valke2,

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying.

The only other alternative is that no one religion has a monoply on “right.” But that there may only be one religion that is right for you.

Nonsense. Religion is not for you; but rather it is for God.

… If Jesus didn’t publically tell the Jews that he came to save them, you shouldn’t have spent 2,000 years blaming us for his death or for rejecting him…

So, what exactly is it that the Jews, during Jesus’ lifetime, rejected? …

Your absolutely right. We shouldn’t be blaming Jews for the death of Jesus.

Instead, we should be blaming ourselves; It was our sin that caused Jesus to be sacrificed.

… But more importantly, none of those miracles are a condition of the Messiah, as set forth in the prophecies.

But Jesus was the only one who resurrected Himself.

And there are plenty of prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. Too many to list here.

 

[Valke2]

But Jesus was the only one who resurrected Himself.

And there are plenty of prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. Too many to list here.

Resurrection wasn’t one of them. Even if he is the only one to have done it to himself. Although I might argue that Elijha fits that category. As for fulfilling the prophices, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[bella5110]

Valke,
If you want answers, why don’t you just read the New Testament? Is there a problem that you cannot read it and then come back and post something?? The whole of The Old Testament is the forecoming of The Messiah in which they spoke of as Jesus Christ. The Old Testament is the new, and The New Testament is the old. Why is it so hard after studying The Old Testament, The New Testament, and the Early Church Fathers equals The Messiah Jesus christ. Why are you still waiting for a Messiah when He is right here?? How long do you plan on waiting for Him to come?

 

[bella5110]

As for casting out demons, you couldn’t swing a dead cat in biblical times without hitting a demon. every medical malady was attributed to demons. And the Talmud has plenty of stories about Rabbis casting out demons and even barring them from coming into town. Again, I’ll look up the stories and post them for you at another time.

The point is casting out demons would not be any proof whatsoever to a Jew living in Jesus’ time that he was the Messiah.

It wasn’t just casting out demons, as if that’s all He did. The countless miracles then and that are happening today. He performed miracles, not demonizing as in the Rabbis you know. All I know is before you can say any of this, you must read at least one Gospel, and The Acts of The Apostles. Then answer.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Resurrection wasn’t one of them [prophecies]…

Psalms 49:15 - But God will rescue me; he will save me from the power of death.

Valke2, who was saved from the power of death? Who is Pslam 49 written about?

… Although I might argue that Elijha fits that category…

But would you suggest that Elijha denied Jesus as God? (See Matthew 17)