Do Anglican bishops have Apostolic Succession?

[commenter]

In evaluating the various claims for Apostolic Succession, there is one variable I have not seen discussed. I can see how a Catholic bishop can switch to something else (e. g. Lutheran, Anglican, etc) and then be able to ordain priests, and perhaps participate in the consecration of bishops, for men who share the same new faith the bishop now has. Thus apostolic succession is transmitted within that communion by fellow church members.

But how can a bishop in one communion (Old Catholic, PNCC, or whatever) pass on apostolic succession to a candidate for priesthood or episcopacy in another communion (such as Anglican, Lutheran, etc), a church and doctrine the bishop himself does not belong to or adhere to? Ordination isn’t like baptism, it is intended specifically for service within a given communion.

Does Rome, or the other churches, recognize cross denominational ordinations or consecrations as transmitting apostolic succession?

 

[GKC]

In evaluating the various claims for Apostolic Succession, there is one variable I have not seen discussed. I can see how a Catholic bishop can switch to something else (e. g. Lutheran, Anglican, etc) and then be able to ordain priests, and perhaps participate in the consecration of bishops, for men who share the same new faith the bishop now has. Thus apostolic succession is transmitted within that communion by fellow church members.

But how can a bishop in one communion (Old Catholic, PNCC, or whatever) pass on apostolic succession to a candidate for priesthood or episcopacy in another communion (such as Anglican, Lutheran, etc), a church and doctrine the bishop himself does not belong to or adhere to? Ordination isn’t like baptism, it is intended specifically for service within a given communion.

Does Rome, or the other churches, recognize cross denominational ordinations or consecrations as transmitting apostolic succession?

Just so. See Ott, FUNDAMENTALS OF CATHOLIC DOGMA, p.458. A validly consecrated bishop, be he schismatic, heretical, simonistic or excommunicated, transmits valid orders when he ordains/consecrates, providing other sacramental factors are valid.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

What concerns me is that there are so many Anglicans who look to Rome first and foremost for legitimacy. If they do this, I don’t understand what they are waiting for.

The term “Anglo-Papalist” comes to mind … though of course that may not really be a useful term as it is a bit nebulous.

 

[GKC]

The term “Anglo-Papalist” comes to mind … though of course that may not really be a useful term as it is a bit nebulous.

Anglo-Papalists are Anglo-Catholics on steroids. They mainly live in England.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Anglo-Papalists are Anglo-Catholics on steroids.

So … does that mean that Anglo-Catholics, in general, are somewhat “Papalist” (or “Roman” or whatever adjective might be used)?

 

[GKC]

So … does that mean that Anglo-Catholics, in general, are somewhat “Papalist” (or “Roman” or whatever adjective might be used)?

Not necessarily. But ACs tend to have favorable thoughts toward Papa as the Primate of the West, etc, etc. My late rector used to include Pope, by name, in the prayers for the state of Christ’s Church. And the Ecumenical Greek Patriarch, too.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Not necessarily. But ACs tend to have favorable thoughts toward Papa as the Primate of the West, etc, etc. My late rector used to include Pope, by name, in the prayers for the state of Christ’s Church. And the Ecumenical Greek Patriarch, too.

GKC

OIC.

 

[Indifferently]

GKC, it is to be noted, has interesting views. The Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral makes mention of an “historic episcopate”. This may or may not refer to “apostolic succession”.

 

[GKC]

GKC, it is to be noted, has interesting views. The Chicago-Lambeth Quadrilateral makes mention of an “historic episcopate”. This may or may not refer to “apostolic succession”.

I certainly do. Lots of them.

GKC

 

[commenter]

OIC.

All right, dumb question, but I’m pre-computer text babble. What does OIC mean?

“One in Christ” “Oh, I see” “Only in Canada” ???

It’s only a couple years ago I learned lol.

 

[GKC]

All right, dumb question, but I’m pre-computer text babble. What does OIC mean?

“One in Christ” “Oh, I see” “Only in Canada” ???

It’s only a couple years ago I learned lol.

My bet is #2.

GKC

 

[Vergil]

Anglicans that are part of the Provoo Communion with European Lutheran churches, have apostolic succession.

Wrong.

 

[Vergil]

True. And all Christians other than Roman Catholics deny papal infallibility. So it is a draw!

Not so. There are thousands of millions of Catholics other than the several million who happen to live in Rome who are aware of the Pope’s infallibility on matters of faith and morals.

 

[cmodrmac]

It is fascinating isn’t it-I am aware of a Brazilian Bishop who left the RC Church and has ordained a number of Old catholic Priests including a former College classmate of mine in the USA-He apparently also ordained a number of Priests of the Evangelical episcopal Church (not related to ECUSA) there there are the “Cafora” Old Roman Catholics not to be confused with the plain Old catholics-

Would not the participation of a Female Bishop invalidate the whole thing?

 

[GKC]

It is fascinating isn’t it-I am aware of a Brazilian Bishop who left the RC Church and has ordained a number of Old catholic Priests including a former College classmate of mine in the USA-He apparently also ordained a number of Priests of the Evangelical episcopal Church (not related to ECUSA) there there are the “Cafora” Old Roman Catholics not to be confused with the plain Old catholics-

Would not the participation of a Female Bishop invalidate the whole thing?

Not necessarily, AFAIK.

But it might be a cause to examine all participating bishops, as to sacramental intent.

GKC

 

[GKC]

It is fascinating isn’t it-I am aware of a Brazilian Bishop who left the RC Church and has ordained a number of Old catholic Priests including a former College classmate of mine in the USA-He apparently also ordained a number of Priests of the Evangelical episcopal Church (not related to ECUSA) there there are the “Cafora” Old Roman Catholics not to be confused with the plain Old catholics-

Would not the participation of a Female Bishop invalidate the whole thing?

Dom Carlos Duarte Costa.

GKC

 

[cmodrmac]

There will inevitably be 2 answers - the RC one of no valid orders and the Anglican one of yes valid orders-The RC church does it reordain Anglican Priests (I believe they do) while the Orthodox do not -so a difference between the 2 Churches that the RC church agrees have valid orders along with a smattering of Old catholics

In the first century what was the formula (words used) for ordaining Bishops-was it not a mere laying on of hands right? or do we not know-

To the average RC and Anglican the answer to the question likely does not matter-both love their Churches and are believers-

I agree tha women Bishops really complicate the picture-at least on the Anglican side

 

[GKC]

There will inevitably be 2 answers - the RC one of no valid orders and the Anglican one of yes valid orders-The RC church does it reordain Anglican Priests (I believe they do) while the Orthodox do not -so a difference between the 2 Churches that the RC church agrees have valid orders along with a smattering of Old catholics

In the first century what was the formula (words used) for ordaining Bishops-was it not a mere laying on of hands right? or do we not know-

To the average RC and Anglican the answer to the question likely does not matter-both love their Churches and are believers-

I agree tha women Bishops really complicate the picture-at least on the Anglican side

It is difficult to give a single answer as to whether Orthodox would receive an Anglican priest in his orders, or not.

GKC

 

[andrewstx]

Anglicans are not the only ones with their “motley” moments. Some Orthodox would re ordain Anglican clerics. While other jurisdictions would accept them by vesting.

Depends on what Orthodox you ask.

 

[GKC]

Anglicans are not the only ones with their “motley” moments. Some Orthodox would re ordain Anglican clerics. While other jurisdictions would accept them by vesting.

Depends on what Orthodox you ask.

GKC