Do animals have free will

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tonyrey said:
Many dogs have no training at all but like dolphins they save lives. It is an insult to call an animal a tool. It is not only our species which has a right to life.
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Apologies for not being clear.
The training to save the life is the tool.

We took an animal that is driven by instinct and modified its limited will to accommodate heroic measures.

As to the animals that have no training, I would like to know more about the circumstances. Just to be sure this was really an act of heroism or an act of instinct.
 
vz71 said:
Apologies for not being clear.
The training to save the life is the tool.

We took an animal that is driven by instinct and modified its limited will to accommodate heroic measures.

As to the animals that have no training, I would like to know more about the circumstances. Just to be sure this was really an act of heroism or an act of instinct.
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Do you believe animals behave like cogs in a machine? If not why not?
 
tonyrey said:
Do you believe animals behave like cogs in a machine? If not why not?
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Just being a cog would imply we know what it is going to do in any given circumstance.
We do not.

But I do not believe they have a will for much beyond instinct.
 
vz71 said:
Just being a cog would imply we know what it is going to do in any given circumstance.
We do not.

But I do not believe they have a will for much beyond instinct.
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On what evidence do you base that belief?
 
Just the evidence I see before me.

Do you know of some study that has shown anything other than base instinct driving the behavior of animals?
 
vz71 said:
Just the evidence I see before me.

Do you know of some study that has shown anything other than base instinct driving the behavior of animals?
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When I was a kid I used to spend the summer holiday at my grandparents farm. I did not make a methodological study but I saw enough to be convinced that animals do think far moore than we want to admit. They are quick learners. They make analogies. They evaluate situations and make decisions. They communicate to one another. Some are better problem solvers than others and this is what we apreciate at the most, but that does not mean a chicken can’t solve any problem.
 
Ion said:
When I was a kid I used to spend the summer holiday at my grandparents farm. I did not make a methodological study but I saw enough to be convinced that animals do think far moore than we want to admit. They are quick learners. They make analogies. They evaluate situations and make decisions. They communicate to one another. Some are better problem solvers than others and this is what we apreciate at the most, but that does not mean a chicken can’t solve any problem.
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👍 They don’t have free will but that doesn’t mean they are biological machines operated by forces beyond their control. That is an excellent example of a false dilemma which overlooks their plasticity and individuality. It is possible to be original and creative without being morally responsible!
 
Bob_Crowley said:
What does bemuse me is how God makes very complicated creatures which ultimately do quite simple things.

Take our dog, Sputnik. If I were to go into Sputnik’s physiology, right down to the cellular and molecular level, I would be amazed at the intricacy and complexity.

But what does all this astounding complexity do?

Chases a ball, barks at other dogs, wags his tail, eats, chews on a bone, runs up and down the back fence to annoy the two dogs over the back (both of which are about ten times bigger than he is), hides from storms and all the rest.
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“cute” takes a lot of work
View attachment 19066
 
Do animals have free will?

I asked my Boxer, and my two cats…

They voted:

“no”
 
Bookcat said:
(well…ok I voted for them …)
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My little Bichon Frise just cocked his head at me… like “you’re crazy lady, what are you wanting from me?”

He’s quite happy being a little white fuzz ball with more courage than common sense, but he’s good company anyway!
 
Maybe because the most of them can’t be domesticated they might have some sort of rudimentary will?
I think of animals as an example of what humans can end up like without God…
 
Ion said:
Maybe because the most of them can’t be domesticated they might have some sort of rudimentary will?
I think of animals as an example of what humans can end up like without God…
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If by rudimentary will, you mean they can choose to charge and bite you or decide you aren’t worth their time, don’t smell right so they’ll go their way and let you go yours, so long as you don’t linger near their den or their young, I agree. They can be somewhat individualistic.
I don’t think of animals as an example of what humans can end up like without God, but more as what WE would be like if we had only been products of evolution rather than Creation! :D:
 
This reminds me of an interesting exchange of messages posted on a Catholic church and a protestant church nearby… one claimed dogs go to Heaven, the other said dogs don’t have souls, then the other said Catholic dogs do.
 
Area_Man said:
From a philosophical point of view, is free will exclusive to humans or can animals also possess free will?
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Surely it depends on your philosophy? Philosophy is a subjective notion, so there is no right (or wrong) answer. Did you mean, “In your opinion, is free will etc. etc.?”

In my opinion, which is supported by all available evidence, animals don’t have free will. That includes human animals.
 
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