Do Animals Have Souls?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kooldood
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Perhaps it would be a good time for someone to quote the CCC for the specific paragraphs concerning mortal and immortal souls.
II. 366. The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

The Church is made up of humans; naturally the Church teaches immortality for human animals but not for non-human animals.
 
JReducation, I agree that it’s good to look at the history. But philosophy and science did not end with the Middle Ages, and there may be good reason to revisit our model of the “soul” in the Third millennium.
The problem there is that you can’t change a model that the Church has locked in. Only the Church can do that. The Church includes her understanding on the soul under revealed truths. As language evolves she rewords it so that the meaning is preserved, but she has not changed her position since the age of the Fathers. The only major change, if it can be called that, is that the Church accepted John Duns Scotus that if Mary was conceived without sin, then the soul is created at the same time as the body, at conception. Augustine and Aquinas believed that the body was conceived and then the soul was implanted. The Franciscans argued this and proved the Aquinas and Augustine were mistaken. The soul comes into existence at the moment of conception along with the body. Without the soul the body cannot have life.

Augustine and Aquinas had argued that the body was conceived by the parents, that it was alive, and that the soul was implanted by God. This was unacceptable to the Franciscans, because they believed what the Eastern Fathers taught, that May had been conceived without sin. Therefore, there had to be a soul a the moment of conception or there would not have been an Immaculate Conception. Since Mary is human, what applies to her human nature can be applied to all human nature, that is, the soul and body come into existence simultaneously. The human soul has a beginning, but not an end. Therefore it is imortal.

The soul of the lower animals also comes into existence at conception, but it is not imortal. It dies with the body, because it’s sole function (no pun intended) is to give life to that body. Our soul has a secondary purpose for existence, to be eternally happy with God. This was a belief help by the Fathers of the Church who received it from the writings of the Apostles and the Old Testament.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Do animals have souls? Classical philosophy says “yes”. In fact all living things have souls; plants, animals, and man. In philosophical terms, the soul is the substantial form of a living being. It is the first grade of actuality of a natural body having life potentially in it. Furthermore, soul is the source of and is characterized by the powers manifest in living things; self-nutrition, sensation, thinking, and movement.

There are different kinds or grades of souls in the traditional Aristotelian-Thomistic view. The kinds of souls are distinguished according to the kinds of vital operations which a living being performs. All living things nourish themselves with food, grow, and reproduce their kind. These three activities are the minimal characters of life.

The most fundamental type of soul is the soul that gives these three powers, nutrition, growth, and reproduction, and nothing more. This kind of soul is called the nutritive or vegetative soul.

In addition to these three powers, which are possessed by plants, animals and men perceive or sense. Many animals possess the power of locomotion and imagination, which arises from perception and desire. These powers define the second grade of soul, the sensitive soul. The sensitive soul, in addition to its unique powers, includes everything that characterizes the first grade of soul, the nutritive soul.

In addition, man possesses thought, which is essentially different from perception and imagination and so cannot be a power of the sensitive soul. Also, man possesses rational desire or will, which is different from sensitive desire.

Thus man possess a rational or intellective soul, which is the first principle in man of thought and will. The intellective soul also contains all the powers of the two lower grades of soul.

The rational soul is created and is present at the moment of conception. This view was not always held due to inadequate scientific understanding of pre-natal development. Thomas Aquinas, following the biology of his day, mistakenly believed the male pre-natal child was not developed enough to be ‘ensouled’, and therefore human, until 40 days, while the female took about 80 days.

In Aquinas’ philosophical view, the nutritive and sensitive souls precede the presence of the spiritual or intellectual soul. The intellectual soul, which contains within it the powers of the lower nutritive or vegetative and sensitive souls, is created directly by “God at the end of human generation, and this soul is at the same time sensitive and nutritive, the pre-existing forms being corrupted” (S.T. Ia, q. 118, art. 2, reply 2).

If Aquinas had modern biological knowledge of pre-natal development, he would have taught that the rational soul is present at conception.

St. Augustine, on the other hand, had a different view of the soul, one influenced by neo-Platonic tradition. The modern Thomistic view of the soul represents a significant philosophical advance over the Platonic view of the soul. In the Thomistic view, the rational soul is an incomplete, subsisting spiritual substance whose nature it is is to be united to a physical body as its substantial form and principle of life.

Only the human soul, as we know, is immortal. Plant and animal souls are not spiritual substances and so are corrupted and cease to exist when the organism dies. Yet, since plant and animal souls are the substantial forms of living things they are not the material component of the organism. Except for the rational soul of man which is spiritual, the substantial form of anything is its non-material component. The souls of plants and animals are non-material, but not more than that, i.e. they are not spiritual substances.
 
The problem there is that you can’t change a model that the Church has locked in. Only the Church can do that. The Church includes her understanding on the soul under revealed truths. As language evolves she rewords it so that the meaning is preserved, but she has not changed her position since the age of the Fathers. 🙂
No model is locked in. A theology that is locked in is no longer a living theology, but rather a dead relic of a once living tradition. You can’t derive a Greek style the immortality of all and only human souls from either the Hebrew scriptures or the New Testament. Theology needs to be in dialogue with the culture in which it is embedded. In our case, culture is heavily influenced by the sciences of the third millennium, and theology ignores science does so only at peril of its continuing relevance.
 
By “as we know” what do you mean? As we imagine? As science shows? As scripture tells us?
What is it in particular that you object to? Do you have a position you would like to present for discussion? Be more specific, please.
 
What is it in particular that you object to? Do you have a position you would like to present for discussion? Be more specific, please.
Sure: you said (post # 142) “Only the human soul, as we know, is immortal.” I’m wondering how you “know” this. What kind of knowledge is your claim that “only the human soul is immortal”? Is it scientific? philosophical? theological? becaux we’ve been told so? other knowledge? What is its epistemological status? These are interesting questions.

StAnastasia
 
Sure: you said (post # 142) “Only the human soul, as we know, is immortal.” I’m wondering how you “know” this. What kind of knowledge is your claim that “only the human soul is immortal”? Is it scientific? philosophical? theological? becaux we’ve been told so? other knowledge? What is its epistemological status? These are interesting questions.

StAnastasia
My statement is based primarily on a philosophical study of the soul, beginning with the ancient Greeks, continuing through the Middle Ages, to the present. Aristotle’s De Anima provides the best answers to what “soul” is. De Anima is a consistent application of the hyle-morphic theory to living organisms. Aquinas develops the Aristotelian theory. As far as modern times are concerned, I think the works of Jacques Maritain, Etienne Gilson, Mortimer J. Adler, and other philosophers in the tradition of the *philosophia perennis *provide the best philosophical analysis of soul.

I really don’t know of any philosopher or theologian of any repute that claims plants and animals have immortal souls. The Church certainly does not teach any such thing. As far as Scripture is concerned, there really is not much said about the soul in the O.T. “Soul” is an unfortunate translation into English of the Hebrew *nepes *because “soul” in common English reflects a complex of ideas going back to ancient Greece and developed later by medieval scholasticism. The O.T. idea of *nepes *is very different. There is no single word that translates nepes, but basically we can say that man in his total essence is a nepes.

In the O.T. the only appearance of the Greek idea of soul is in the Book of Wisdom where it is mentioned briefly, and the author does not appear to have extensive knowledge of the Greek concept. Confer Ws.3:1 and 8:19-20.

The N.T. generally uses the word psyche, which is translated as “soul”. The psyche is oftentimes spoken of as the seat of supernatural life and the object of salvation. However, this does not reach to the Greek concept of psyche as a distinct spiritual principle. The Greek concept has generally been read into the text. But the concept of psyche in the NT is still the totality of the self as a living and conscious subject and it is the totality of the self which is saved for eternal life.

In classical philosophy there are a number of arguments that demonstrate that the human soul is a spiritual substance, and as such it cannot die with the body. These arguments only apply to man as a rational animal.

In regard to plants and animals, there is no reason to posit a soul that is spiritual. To do so would put one in the vitalist camp. Vitalism posits something existing in addition to the organism. This is an unwarranted assumption. The Aristotelian-Thomistic doctrine of soul, in regard to plants and animals, if it is compared to Vitalism or Mechanism, it is closer to Mechanism, because soul is not a force or principle in addition to the totality of the living organism.

I don’t know if this helps, but I tend to think along Thomistic philosophical lines, while keeping an eye on science and theology for what they have to say.

In Thomistic philosophy it is not exactly correct to say man has a soul. Rather, man is a composite being of spiritual soul and physical body.
 
II. 366. The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

The Church is made up of humans; naturally the Church teaches immortality for human animals but not for non-human animals.
Great.
We have established the immortality of the human soul.
Is there anything that specifies animal souls?

Here is my issue…do we have a specific church teaching subject to infallibility that specifies animal souls as mortal?

If not, then there would seem room for disagreement.
 
My statement is based primarily on a philosophical study of the soul, beginning with the ancient Greeks, continuing through the Middle Ages, to the present. Aristotle’s De Anima provides the best answers to what “soul” is…
I really don’t know of any philosopher or theologian of any repute that claims plants and animals have immortal souls.
Itinerant1, thank you for your note. My points are that

(1) I have not seen any scientific proof for immortal souls of any kind, human or otherwise. Can you offer any? Or is such “proof” by definition unobtainable?

(2) Homo sapiens is a mammal, just as are chimpanzees, dogs, cats, dolphins, elephants, and other intelligent species. I haven’t seen any evidence that would substantiate the claim that all and only Homo sapiens have souls. It is understandable why this claim is made only by human philosophers.

(3) In the unbroken hominid sequence in the last five million years there seems no clear point at which we can say “this is a human with an immortal soul, but her parents were not humans and had only mortal souls.” Can you find such an unmistakable point?

(4) The species Homo sapiens itself present challenges to the claim that anything with human DNA possesses an immortal soul.

These are interesting liminal questions at the interface between theology, philosophy, and the sciences. Aristotle was working with the cutting edge science of his day, but the cutting edge science of 400 BCE are hardly central preoccupations of theologians and philosophers today.

StAnastasia
 
Itinerant1, thank you for your note. My points are that

(1) I have not seen any scientific proof for immortal souls of any kind, human or otherwise. Can you offer any? Or is such “proof” by definition unobtainable?

(2) Homo sapiens is a mammal, just as are chimpanzees, dogs, cats, dolphins, elephants, and other intelligent species. I haven’t seen any evidence that would substantiate the claim that all and only Homo sapiens have souls. It is understandable why this claim is made only by human philosophers.

(3) In the unbroken hominid sequence in the last five million years there seems no clear point at which we can say “this is a human with an immortal soul, but her parents were not humans and had only mortal souls.” Can you find such an unmistakable point?

(4) The species Homo sapiens itself present challenges to the claim that anything with human DNA possesses an immortal soul.

These are interesting liminal questions at the interface between theology, philosophy, and the sciences. Aristotle was working with the cutting edge science of his day, but the cutting edge science of 400 BCE are hardly central preoccupations of theologians and philosophers today.

StAnastasia
This gives me a good idea of what you are thinking. I’ll be back on CAF later today when I have time to respond to all of your points. For now, I’ll pose a question for you from the N.T. Christ told one of the thieves crucified along side of Him, that he would be in Paradise that day. What did Christ mean, if not that the soul of the one thief would be saved and be immediately after death in Paradise, while his body was buried, just as Christ’s body was buried?
 
How have we? Merely by asserting it? I can assert many things but not establish them.
You can assert many things, yes.
But you do not carry the authority of God’s church.

As a general rule, once Rome speaks I consider the matter settled.

The immortality of the human soul is a settled matter, it is contained within the CCC, and I will not question that.

Now do we have a difinitive ‘Rome says…’ concerning the mortality of animal souls?
 
This gives me a good idea of what you are thinking. I’ll be back on CAF later today when I have time to respond to all of your points. For now, I’ll pose a question for you from the N.T. Christ told one of the thieves crucified along side of Him, that he would be in Paradise that day. What did Christ mean, if not that the soul of the one thief would be saved and be immediately after death in Paradise, while his body was buried, just as Christ’s body was buried?
Thanks, Itinerant1. You raise a good question. The passage in question is Luke 23:42: “Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’.” Note that Jesus did not say ‘I tell you the truth, your soul is immortal and today you will be with me in paradise.’

One possibility is that Jesus as a Jew was thinking in terms of the Hebraic conception of the person as a psychosomatic unity, rather than in terms of Greek dualism (I don’t know how much Plato Jesus had read or absorbed). His conception was that the good thief as a whole person would be with him in Paradise, rather than just his soul. Personally I think this passage refers to the promise of resurrection into the new creation that Paul would later speak about (Romans 8:22). Resurrection of the whole person to new life would not be inconsistent with Jesus’ Jewish perspective (Daniel 12:1-2).

StAnastasia
 
As a general rule, once Rome speaks I consider the matter settled.
The immortality of the human soul is a settled matter, it is contained within the CCC, and I will not question that.
vz71, I understand your position, even if I do not agree with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top