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Robintrinket
Guest
Not spiritual souls. If animals were spiritual, they would be moral creatures capable of sinning.
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JReducation
Guest
Actually it is a spiritual soul. The word soul itself implies spirit. I think the difference for which you’re looking is between a material soul and an immortal soul. Human beings have an imortal soul and animals have a material soul. A material soul dies when the the creature dies.
As to being moral creatures capable of sinning, that is not the product of having a soul. It is the product of having a conscience and free will. The lower animals do not have a conscience and free will. They have consciousness, which is different from a conscience. They act on two things: instinct and conditioning. Neither are free choices. Human beings have both conscience and consciousness. We act on three things: instinct, conditioning and choice. Choice is where sin and virtue enter the picture. We have a conscience that allows us to tell the difference between good and evil and we have choice that allows us to do one or the other.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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TheLastProfit
Guest
The fact that an animal is without sin is no justification that he/she is without a soul. Adam was a perfect immortal being before he fell subject to sin. Animals do have feeling and they are subject to emotion as well. By declaring that an animal’s soul can simply become non-existent upon death, you are declaring that the life force witch encompasses the entire natural world around is not in union with God.Actually it is a spiritual soul. The word soul itself implies spirit. I think the difference for which you’re looking is between a material soul and an immortal soul. Human beings have an imortal soul and animals have a material soul. A material soul dies when the the creature dies.
As to being moral creatures capable of sinning, that is not the product of having a soul. It is the product of having a conscience and free will. The lower animals do not have a conscience and free will. They have consciousness, which is different from a conscience. They act on two things: instinct and conditioning. Neither are free choices. Human beings have both conscience and consciousness. We act on three things: instinct, conditioning and choice. Choice is where sin and virtue enter the picture. We have a conscience that allows us to tell the difference between good and evil and we have choice that allows us to do one or the other.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Anyone who ever found Jesus knows where they found him.
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severus68
Guest
I too like you know animals wll not just disappear because I now the Christ of love/
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JReducation
Guest
Actually, this is the teaching of the Church since the MIddle Ages. I didn’t make this up. The Church said that animals have a material soul that dies when the animals dies, not I.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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JReducation
Guest
Aquinas makes a very important distinction between the human soul and the sould of the lower animals.
**Accepting the Aristotelean theory that the soul is the form of the body, Aquinas still insists that, possessing spiritual faculties of intellect and will, it belongs to an altogether higher plane of existence than other animal forms. **
newadvent.org/cathen/07687a.htm
Aquinas accepts that the soul is the form of the body, but the human sould enjoys a higher plane of existence than that of other animals. Because our soul is not a form of the body, alone, but also an immortal soul, it does not cease to exist when the body ceases to exist. The souls of animals are limited to their bodies. When their bodies cease to exist, their souls cannot continue to exist beyond the body, as human souls do. That’s how Thomas arrives at the material and immortal qualities of the soul.
As animals, our soul posseses material qualities. It gives life to the body. But as humans, our sould also posess immortality, because they continue to exist after our bodies have ceased to exist. This is the higher plane of existence to which Thomas refers.
The Church agreed with Thomas and incorporated it into her dogmatic teachings on the nature of the human soul.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
**Accepting the Aristotelean theory that the soul is the form of the body, Aquinas still insists that, possessing spiritual faculties of intellect and will, it belongs to an altogether higher plane of existence than other animal forms. **
newadvent.org/cathen/07687a.htm
Aquinas accepts that the soul is the form of the body, but the human sould enjoys a higher plane of existence than that of other animals. Because our soul is not a form of the body, alone, but also an immortal soul, it does not cease to exist when the body ceases to exist. The souls of animals are limited to their bodies. When their bodies cease to exist, their souls cannot continue to exist beyond the body, as human souls do. That’s how Thomas arrives at the material and immortal qualities of the soul.
As animals, our soul posseses material qualities. It gives life to the body. But as humans, our sould also posess immortality, because they continue to exist after our bodies have ceased to exist. This is the higher plane of existence to which Thomas refers.
The Church agreed with Thomas and incorporated it into her dogmatic teachings on the nature of the human soul.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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TheLastProfit
Guest
The human race does prove it’s self as being superior in some ways. It is our will to manipulate the world around us to better our own existence that distinguishes us from the rest of the animal race. However ingenuity does not always amount to intelligence, the world that we live in today is a prime example. God would do much better looking at the world today through the eyes of a Polar Bear than he would looking through the eyes of you or me.
Facts about heaven supported by popular religion!
-In Heaven husband and wife unite to share one body that is male.
-In Heaven every male shall have 7 wives.
In Heaven does a female have no soul? Where does she come from? Can she die and cease to exist. Can she remember what the Earth once was? Is her faith in her mate unintelligent?
Facts about heaven supported by popular religion!
-In Heaven husband and wife unite to share one body that is male.
-In Heaven every male shall have 7 wives.
In Heaven does a female have no soul? Where does she come from? Can she die and cease to exist. Can she remember what the Earth once was? Is her faith in her mate unintelligent?
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severus68
Guest
I thought I knew where you were coming from until you started about these so called facts about heaven. Which religion gives these so called facts please? Certainy not Christianity.
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TheLastProfit
Guest
The 7 wives thing is clearly Muslim. The Soulmate thing is Christian. I admit rarely does anyone combine both aspects into a single invisonment, to do so would be prophetic, and I realize that my tread does challenge those borders. I simply wish to clarify the difference between the questions “Do all dogs go to Heaven?” and “ Are there dogs in Heaven?”
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Robintrinket
Guest
What is this supposed to mean? What is the “life force which encompasses the entire natural world”?
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Robintrinket
Guest
Adam was *capable *of sinning, an animal is not.
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TheLastProfit
Guest
exactly, if an animal is not capible of sinning we cannot proclaim them inferior. God has no reason to feel anger towards them. It is humans that have to rely on forgiveness, we are the one’s which should question are entry into Heaven.
The life force WITCH incompasses all of the natural world around us is more commenly known as Jesus, if you’ve found him.
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kimmielittle
Guest
Correct. We cannot claim that based solely upon the inability to sin.
It is based upon the reason they are incapable of sin.
It is the same reason a hammer and nails are incapable of sin.
They lack the ability to make the type of decision necessary to sin.
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TheLastProfit
Guest
Understood. But unlike a hammer or nail animals still have the capacity to love.
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Robintrinket
Guest
So how is claiming that an animal is not immortal the same as declaring that Jesus is not in union with God?
You sound rather pantheistic here, calling Jesus “the Force”. I think you’ve watched too much Star Wars.
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Robintrinket
Guest
How do you know this? They cannot *choose *to love, since they cannot make moral choices. They act out of instinct and past experience (so you can train them). Since they are incapable of sinning, they are incapable of being virtuous.
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Robintrinket
Guest
What is the “Soulmate thing” and how is it Christian?
I have serious doubts about anthropomorphizing our own emotions onto animals.
Pavlov’s dog explains a lot.
Exactly.
There is no frame of reference by which we can claim that any animal experiences emotions.
Even were the dog to get up on its hind legs, walk to the podium, and announce for all that it can love; we would be left wondering what exactly the dog means by the word love.
Any animal, by virtue of the fact that it is animal, cannot experience human emotions.
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