Do any Catholics here not believe some Marian apparitions?

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EIF5A said:
If Fatima is not true, then the Catholic Church can err.

I’m not sure how two sister Churches (with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession and the presence of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by miracles and such) can come to opposite conclusions.

Maybe God is angry…He’s been angry before with the Israelites…and the fact that we reject His Son, either by not living by His example or consciously rejecting Him, doesn’t help humanity…
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Well, Fatima is true as far as the Roman Catholics are concerned. I just presented the Orthodox side of it because you asked what about Russia. The Orthodox certainly do no believe in Fatima.

While the Orthodox do not deny that God can be angry, we do not see God as one who is so angry that He is itching to pass judgement on all and send everyone to hell. That is very contrary to the message of the Gospel which Christ has commanded us to spread. So why are we spreading a message that is contrary to the current state of God? Makes no sense.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Well, Fatima is true as far as the Roman Catholics are concerned. I just presented the Orthodox side of it because you asked what about Russia. The Orthodox certainly do no believe in Fatima.

While the Orthodox do not deny that God can be angry, we do not see God as one who is so angry that He is itching to pass judgement on all and send everyone to hell. That is very contrary to the message of the Gospel which Christ has commanded us to spread. So why are we spreading a message that is contrary to the current state of God? Makes no sense.
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Nothing in the messages of Fatima say that God was "itching to pass judgment on all and send everyone to Hell," but, "Offend not God, for He is already too greatly offended", and the children were asked to pray and make sacrifices for those who were indifferent, impure, and unbelieving.
 
EIF5A said:
If Fatima is not true, then the Catholic Church can err.

I’m not sure how two sister Churches (with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession and the presence of the Holy Spirit as evidenced by miracles and such) can come to opposite conclusions.

Maybe God is angry…He’s been angry before with the Israelites…and the fact that we reject His Son, either by not living by His example or consciously rejecting Him, doesn’t help humanity…
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This confuses the sacramental life of the Church with the teaching authority. And no bishop or body of bishops not in communion with the Holy See can infallibly evaluate anything. Despite the optimism expressed at and after Second Vatican for reunion, I see no signs at all that the essential hostility towards Rome among the Orthodox (or Copts, or Protestants) has diminished; it’s only glossed over by ecumenical dialogue.
 
Jaysuitical said:
Nothing in the messages of Fatima say that God was “itching to pass judgment on all and send everyone to Hell,” but, “Offend not God, for He is already too greatly offended”, and the children were asked to pray and make sacrifices for those who were indifferent, impure, and unbelieving.
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What sorts of sacrifices? Prayers, almsgiving, vigils?
 
EIF5A said:
I guess Fatima keeps sticking in my mind. I mean, aren’t there Orthodox Christians there? And don’t the Orthodox Christians have apparitions of the Theotokos? Why the need for consecration of Russia?
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The request for the consecration of Russia had nothing to do with the Eastern Orthodox and everything to do with Communists.
 
There are numerous apparitions that are claimed to be ‘true’ but are highly suspect and are NOT approved of by the Catholic Church. Chief among these, in my mind, is Medjugore.
 
I honestly haven’t given the veracity of any particular Marian apparition much attention, so I don’t really have any beliefs one way or another.

While neither Marian nor an apparition, I do have some pretty strong opinions about the Shroud of Turin. I believe it to be a medieval creation and not the actual burial shroud of Jesus Christ. Also, in general, I’m highly skeptical of nearly every relic, especially those of alleged super-antiquity (just how many pieces of “the True Cross” are there anyway?)
 
ConstantineTG said:
While the Orthodox do not deny that God can be angry, we do not see God as one who is so angry that He is itching to pass judgement on all and send everyone to hell.
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That’s a rather polemical summary of the Fatima message, wouldn’t you say?

If a society is headed towards hell in a hurry, isn’t it a work of mercy to warn those of that society about it first? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that God allowed Theotokos to call the people to repentance precisely BECAUSE He loved them and wanted them to repent. How is that an “itchy trigger finger???”

Are you seriously arguing that at the time the message of Fatima was given that there was NOT an imminent and grave threat posed to the peace and solidarity of the world by Russia (aka USSR)? You’re angry at the suggestion that God would want the people of the world to pray for Russia right at the time communism was beginning its initial rise to power?

I can’t relate to your reactions at all.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Apparitions in the Orthodox faith are nowhere near what it is in the Roman Catholic faith. In Orthodoxy there are no messages delivered, certainly not new things.
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There is no new doctrine or public revelation that ever comes forth from apparitions - not even from Lourdes, which seems to be a chief target for this claim, but which occurred several years after the dogmatic definition of the Immaculate Conception.

But, I do agree that some Catholics are way too preoccupied with apparitions and visions. I really like this quote from the late Bishop D’Arcy:
God comes to us through the ordinary, through the bread and wine [of Communion] and through the pastor as shepherd. As a pastor, I would say people should seek [the] ordinary means Christ has given to the church and not seek signs and wonders.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Apparitions in the Orthodox faith are nowhere near what it is in the Roman Catholic faith. In Orthodoxy there are no messages delivered, certainly not new things.
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ConstantineTG said:
Well, Fatima is true as far as the Roman Catholics are concerned. I just presented the Orthodox side of it because you asked what about Russia. The Orthodox certainly do no believe in Fatima.

While the Orthodox do not deny that God can be angry, we do not see God as one who is so angry that He is itching to pass judgement on all and send everyone to hell. That is very contrary to the message of the Gospel which Christ has commanded us to spread. So why are we spreading a message that is contrary to the current state of God? Makes no sense.
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Pray and do penance is the primary message of Fatima. I hadn’t realized this was such a radically new idea to the Eastern Orthodox.
 
I had to click on this thread, to see how many people would respond with “I believe in all the genuine Marian apparitions.” 😉
 
If people want to ask me more questions, let’s continue at the Marian Dogma thread. I answered a specific question on this thread and I don’t want to answer all the other questions that came from it because it will derail this thread. So if you want to ask these questions again at the other thread where it is more appropriate, please do so.

Thanks!
 
How does one consecrate to the Immaculate Heart of Mary? I thought people were consecrated only to God…?

Is the Immaculate Heart a devotion to Jesus and His suffering?
 
LivingWaters7 said:
What are the most recent Marian apparitions?

Also, have there been apparitions or visions of other Heavenly entities (i.e. other Biblical persons, Christ, etc) that have been approved in a similar manner to the Marian apparitions?
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_apparition#Approved_by_the_Roman_Catholic_Church 👍

I don’t know if this answers your second question, but there are many officially approved Eucharistic miracles, such as the one of Lanciano; since these miracles verify the Real Presence, I figured you may be interested. 🙂
 
The Calendar in the RCC has these dates set apart for liturgies regarding the Blessed Virgin Mary:
February 11 - Our Lady of Lourdes
October 7 - Our Lady of the Rosary

There is nothing in the Roman Calendar for Our Lady of Fatima, Akita, Kibeho, or any other apparition that the Church has declared worthy of belief. We believe the Church’s declarations, but it is not required of us to have any private devotion concerning these apparitions. God’s grace may inspire a personal choice in that regard, but it is not a matter of salvation if the faithful chooses not follow them. We simply accept the belief that the Church has not found anything contrary to the faith regarding them.

However, Catholics are under obligation to celebrate the following holy days by attendance at Mass. It is required of all to believe the solemn dogmas issued by the Church concerning them.

August 15 - The Assumption
December 8 - The Immaculate Conception
January 1 - Mary, Mother of God
 
EIF5A said:
I’ve read that some Catholics do not accept some Marian apparitions. (Although I’m confused as to how some do not if the Church has validated them…)

Anyways, are they considered “rebellious” Catholics?

I know it falls under private revelation category (I think…), but if one does not accept them, how does that fit with being obedient to Church teachings?

Just curious because (for some inexplicable reason that I did not foresee) I’m actually considering joining the Catholic Church at some point, and I’d like to be aware of the various viewpoints on this subject.
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You don’t have to accept all of the validated Church teaching’s on things like that.

But I kind of feel like you, you either accept all of the validated teachings or why be there.

But no I don’t believe they are considered rebs.
 
rinnie said:
You don’t have to accept all of the validated Church teaching’s on things like that.

But I kind of feel like you, you either accept all of the validated teachings or why be there.

But no I don’t believe they are considered rebs.
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Years ago Mad Magazine had a cartoon showing conceptions of different words. I remember the word 'DOGMATIC" had a robotic dog!
 
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