Do any Catholics here not believe some Marian apparitions?

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I don’t even like having books about Medjugorje in my store.
I have been very dedicated to Our Lady ever since returning to the Church in 1980 after years of alcoholism etc. I have studied and been blessed deeply by Our Lady of Fatima, Our Lady of Lourdes, and all others. I have been to Medjugorje prior to the great war over there and the overthrow of Communism. There is a lot of false information being spread about it. When I see someone try to put down Medjugorje saying it has bad fruits, I am pretty amazed. Especially considering the millions who have visited and experienced the power and peace present, the thousands and thousands of conversions and hundreds of priests and others who attest that they received their vocation through the fruits of Medjugorje. If you doubt me on that, just Google and look a few up.

Also the holiness- praying the holy hour where the Agnus Dei prayer is sung over and over and over and over . Thousands, even millions of confessions. Young people testifying they got off drugs and alcohol, and even prostitution in Medjugorje and they find hope again. The only devil/satan I see in this is the false information being spread about it. If you think satan /the devil would orchestrate prayer before the blessed Sacrament, Mass after Mass in all languages, stations of the cross up the Cross Mountain every day, repentance, confession, hundreds of documented healings at the Vatican now with the Commission for consideration, and many other phenomena…well I could never say satan would orchestrate that. When they accused Jesus of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub, Matt 12:27, he thought that was a bit ridiculous really.

You know I know the Church will decide correctly on Medjugorje. NO official of the Roman Catholic Church who is involved in the current commission has been has come out and made statements such as “The fruits are bad”, “it’s from the devil” in fact it has been quite the contrary. Pope Francis has allowed Fr. Jozo from Medjugorje, the priest imprisoned and tortured by Communist authorities for his refusal to denounce it, to visit his diocese while a Bishop, and has allowed the visionaries as well.

So when people make extremely negative statements about an ongoing reported apparition which is under full serious review by the Vatican commission, which includes spiritual, scientific, and medical healing information, then in my opinion it is they who are really stepping outside the bounds of the judgment of the Church at this time. It is also a very uninformed view, perhaps unawares.

You know, the Cross on top of Mt Krizevac (Cross Mountain) was built by the Medjugorje Village people in 1933 to commemorate the 1900th year since the birth of Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior. Blessed and holy is His name!!! They did it in a very penitential way by carrying buckets of concrete, especially the women, in bare feet over the rough rocks that are all along the path of the Mountain 5300 feet high, one by one to build the 26 foot high cross. It didn’t stop there though. They walked that mountain every day, in cold and heat, until the rocks were being worn smooth to some degree…and they still do this today. Our Lady as reported has said she chose the place because of it’s beauty, it reminded her of the hills overlooking Jerusalem if I recall correctly. And most importantly she chose it because of the great, simple faith of the people. The cross has the words “.:“To Jesus Christ, Redeemer of the human race, as a sign of their faith, love and hope, in remembrance of the 1900 years since the death of Jesus”. Relics received from Rome for the occasion are embedded in the cross bar itself.

We stayed with a simple family there. They fed us each day, killed their own chickens, milked the cow and boiled milk for the strong Turkish Coffee each day. I asked our host about the reported phenomenon where the word “MIR” (peace) was emblazoned in the sky at the beginning of the reported apparitions. She said oh yes, the entire village saw it and it lasted for about 20 minutes for all to see. After the reported apparitions began – the whole village was pretty much converted from dancing rock and roll to none at all and daily mass, daily prayer and prayer groups sprouting up as well.

My whole point here is not to just promote Medjugorje. But any apparition that is under serious consideration and review by the Church should be reviewed in the same manner as the Church would do it. You know, a lot of people like to bring up the original Bishop Zanic as he was for it before he was against it. He wanted to have it deemed not supernatural, but was outvoted 18-1 in the commission to instead make it we cannot determine supernatural as yet…which is where it is now… which makes sense as a lot of it really need to play out to some extent. The Church is very cautious about pronouncing ongoing apparitions as worthy of belief while they are ongoing, as it could cause scandal if something happens after that which is bad.

So there are a lot of interesting aspects. When I realized in praying the Litany of Our Lady, the last two prayers are Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary, Pray for us, and the last Our Lady Queen of Peace pray for us. So I looked up how this was added, and found that In 1917 Pope Benedict XV added the invocation “Queen of Peace” to the Litany of Loreto. Our Lady has said in the reported apparitions these are her final apparitions, the way I understand it.

I visited the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception, and in visiting the various altars, there is one in the crypt where Mass is said “Our Lady Queen of Peace”, and I was astounded to find that it was dedicated by the people of Croatia (right next to Medjugorje). It was dedicated in 1971, ten years before the reported apparitions began.

So we should really all pray for God’s will to be done regarding these reported apparitions.
 
I’ve read that some Catholics do not accept some Marian apparitions. (Although I’m confused as to how some do not if the Church has validated them…)

Anyways, are they considered “rebellious” Catholics?

I know it falls under private revelation category (I think…), but if one does not accept them, how does that fit with being obedient to Church teachings?

Just curious because (for some inexplicable reason that I did not foresee) I’m actually considering joining the Catholic Church at some point, and I’d like to be aware of the various viewpoints on this subject.
You can trust the Church about approved apparitions of the blessed virgin Mary, for she has scrutinized these apparitions to their fullest which will surpass the average believer scrutiny. You can rest assured that these approved apparitions have been investigated with the utmost scrutiny of the Church.

What I don’t believe is the image of the virigin Mary on some tortilla or christmas lighted reflection and sometimes public reflections have been noted but not approved by the Church. The main thing is that most local priest’s will aknowledge these apparitions as helping the faithful although they are not approved by the Church.

One thing to consider in all of this is that you do not have to have a devotion to the blessed Mother in order to be in good standing with the Church.
 
As Sirach quoted, the apparition of Fatima is approved as authentic as is Lourdes and others.

But irregardless, these apparitions fall under private revelation, and if you do not believe in the apparitions, you are still a Catholic in good standing.

However, considering the gravity of Mary of Fatima’s messages, we ought to believe.

And she said we were to pray for the conversion of Russia, that her errors would spread throughout the world, which we are witnessing right now in our country. She asked we pray the rosary daily, one of the most powerful prayers out there against the devil. And to do penance. Likewise, so many of us were aware of the great number of deaths in the Eastern bloc countries of both Roman Catholics and Orthodox, millions who died under communism.

We ought to believe in Mary of Fatima.

To be consecrated to her immaculate heart means that we entrust ourselves to her. She places us in her heart to protect our faith and our entire beings, and her place one of healing and renewal…through the Holy Spirit.

We pray to Mary in prayer form…but we are speaking to her as Mother, to pray with us to Jesus. Her advocacy is most powerful.
 
I’ve read that some Catholics do not accept some Marian apparitions. (Although I’m confused as to how some do not if the Church has validated them…)

Anyways, are they considered “rebellious” Catholics?

I know it falls under private revelation category (I think…), but if one does not accept them, how does that fit with being obedient to Church teachings?

Just curious because (for some inexplicable reason that I did not foresee) I’m actually considering joining the Catholic Church at some point, and I’d like to be aware of the various viewpoints on this subject.
Sorry, I just enter the forum after being absent for quite a while.

Not every Marian Apparitions is/was a true one. In my country, we have so many claims about apparitions. Some claimed not an apparition, but supernatural phenomena (such as a statue of Mary cried, but produced human blood instead of tears). However, time has proven that those are false claims. Jesus has warned us that in order to believe that, we must put those claims into a test over time. Does the claim bring goods to those claimers? Make them closer to God? Or perhaps end up in some economic advantages to those claimers. Surely, being careful does not mean disobedience.
 
About Medgugorje, what put me off were all the ‘signs’ and daily messages, like it was not for real.

Then I met people who came back from there and became so spirit-filled of prayer and communion with the Lord and Mary.

After that, I saw the story of their history in that region among the Catholics, Serbian Orthodox, and the Muslims, the terrible angst they felt among each other. In the meantime, I looked at so little faith of people today who need God so much.

I began to believe something of Mary is happening in Medgugorje, many conversions are continuing to happen there, and there is peace among the natives there in that particular place.
 
You shall know the tree by its fruits. And I’ve seen bad fruit coming from Medjugorje.
I have seen many good fruit!👍

Like for instance: Many conversions through the sacrament of confession. They apparently have called this the confessional of the world as a nickname for Medjugorje as there are over 40 confessionals going all day and into the evening in many different languages.

In the main Church St James, there are 5 masses a day in different languages depending on the groups and numbers of pilgrims there. Also several other masses are said in smaller chapels for smaller groups of pilgrims who have a priest with them.

Everyday of the week will be a Rosary that 100’s if not thousands attend and then Benediction and Adoration or Veneration of the cross.

There have been several healings that have yet to be approved and over 600 confirmed ordinations directly linked to this Phenomenon. Not sure what kind of bad fruits you have but these are just some of the good fruits that I have read about. I will try to fin d the link to the stats on the priests. The Fransciscans there have been tallying these ordination information for the last 10 years. 👍
 
Medjugorje is an unapproved apparition and I really don’t believe it is anything but a hoax.

There are links on the web for anyone interested in searching out the controversies about this apparition.

If it is approved I still don’t have to believe in it which I find very comforting.
 
I’ve read that some Catholics do not accept some Marian apparitions. (Although I’m confused as to how some do not if the Church has validated them…)

Anyways, are they considered “rebellious” Catholics?

I know it falls under private revelation category (I think…), but if one does not accept them, how does that fit with being obedient to Church teachings?

Just curious because (for some inexplicable reason that I did not foresee) I’m actually considering joining the Catholic Church at some point, and I’d like to be aware of the various viewpoints on this subject.
Guadalupe is the most believable to me I have tried to dispute its Devine nature by working with athiest and Baptist and no one could dispute the divine nature of the painting. Along with the fact its image literally helped convert 8 million right at the time of the Protestant rebellion
 
Medjugorje is an unapproved apparition and I really don’t believe it is anything but a hoax.

There are links on the web for anyone interested in searching out the controversies about this apparition.

If it is approved I still don’t have to believe in it which I find very comforting.
That is all well and good for you, Im am happy that it is comforting to know that you do not believe. Many people even priests have the smae response to many of the Apparition sites such as Fatima and Lourdes. No one is required to believe in any private revelations. I just do not understand why there is a need for people (in general not specically you) have to be so against something that has plainly not been settled yet.

If it is not true and just a hoax it will disappear like all other hoaxes over time but if it is truly from God one may actually be setting him/herself agianst God and his will.

IMHO if the Church has not ruled on this yet especially after so many years it may be better to let it be rather than HInder it. IMHO

Peace!👍
 
That’s the thing. If it is true, then we would miss out by not believing even if it’s not required…

Not sure how to properly deal with doubt or having a clear conscience about this matter…
No, not at all. We won’t miss out anything. The basic message of the apparition would always be confirming the basic faith. They are never something new. The main message of Fatima for example is about a call to pray and repent. A Catholic would not miss anything because whether there is Fatima or not, he is always called to pray and to repent.

Apparitions are in the category of private revelation. Thus Catholics are not obliged to believe or practice what arise from them. Marian devotion which sometimes can be associated with the message from an apparition is devotional spirituality. There are many devotions in Catholicism that enhance their prayer lives. One does not have to follow every devotion that is available. It is not a sin though it is good to observe one that is most suitable to oneself.
 
We are not required to believe in private revelations, even those accepted by the Church. Therefore, there is nothing to be “rebellious” about.

It fits in with being obedient to Church teachings because the Church teaches we are not required to believe in them.
But I am not sure you could call it a Church teaching.

Church teachings are pretty much just the true word of God given to us by the Holy Spirit.
 
Put it like this some are approved by the Church and some are not, the reason why the Church says its approved so one can visit the place in confidence, the ones they don’t approve means one of two things, the Jury is still out, or they don’t recognize it as a place of an apparition.

Even when the Church has approved it , as a Catholic in good standing and loyal to the Church you don’t have to believe in the apparition as its a private revelation not a Doctrine of Faith, if you want to believe so you believe, and if you don’t, well then don’t.

See the Catholic Church is not as rigid as some non Catholics make out it to be, things that are not doctrinal are flexible. The Church wont tell you “YOU HAVE TO SAY THE ROSARY EVERY DAY” it recommends that you do, after all its trying for us all to get to heaven and be Holy.

As a Convert myself hopefully the Lord will give you the Grace to know him and love him ,

Catholicism is Christianity at its fullest expression.
Catholicism is pre denominational, We are the originals.

Having the Bible but rejecting the religion that produced it , is like taking the
writings of the Dalai Lama and following his writings but rejecting him and the Tibetan Buddhism.
Sounds silly doe’nt it. Why do it. If the writings are a reflection of the religion: but you reject the
religion from which they come, you are left only with a reflection. :signofcross:
 
Put it like this some are approved by the Church and some are not, the reason why the Church says its approved so one can visit the place in confidence, the ones they don’t approve means one of two things, the Jury is still out, or they don’t recognize it as a place of an apparition.

Even when the Church has approved it , as a Catholic in good standing and loyal to the Church you don’t have to believe in the apparition as its a private revelation not a Doctrine of Faith, if you want to believe so you believe, and if you don’t, well then don’t.

:
I think the statement from the Catechism shown further below on this is important. Just stating “you don’t have to believe in it” doesn’t really give it justice. The Catechism states "They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation,** but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history**. I think the last sentence very important namely “but to help live more fully by it (Christ’s definitive revelation) in a certain period of history”.

So these revelations help us live more fully Christ’s revelation and they are meant for certain times in history. One other point - who allows these revelations, who allows the Blessed Virgin to come? Why God of course with His Son Jesus. Now if God allows and ordains it, how could we possibly ignore it in practicality?

In addition the Catechism states “** the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church**.”

So the church not only welcomes these revelations but also considers it an authentic call of Christ or His saints to the Church. So can we ignore an authentic call of Christ or His saints to the Church? We can but I would say it is not recommended.

[C.C.C. # 67]
Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.
 
Medjugorje is an unapproved apparition and I really don’t believe it is anything but a hoax.

There are links on the web for anyone interested in searching out the controversies about this apparition.

If it is approved I still don’t have to believe in it which I find very comforting.
Medjugorje is still unapproved b/c it is still happening. The Church doesn’t want to approve this is from God while ‘messages’ are still be given, otherwise, if the messages turn sour, that’ll make the Church look bad. Does that make sense? Fatima took 17 years to be approved by the Church, and that was after the final apparition with the miracle of the sun. However, Medjugorje has been going on now for 32 years, and if at ANY point any of the ‘messages’ went against Church teaching or tried to add something to teaching, the Church would’ve immediately thrown the case out the door and warned the faithful to stay away from Medjugorje. After 32 years, the Church hasn’t done that though, which makes me think that this could be true. I trust the Church and they’ve been keeping a close eye on this for a long time. If the Church ultimately rejects Medjugorje then I will comply b/c, like I said, I trust the Church and I know they’re investigating.
I’ve seen lots of good fruits coming out of Medjugorje as well, but there will always be some bad too, after all, the devil isn’t about to just leave everyone alone! If she’s trying hard to bring more souls back to her Son, you better believe the devil will be at work trying to discredit her! And I do believe she’s there bringing back souls to her son, the messages always center around Him and not her. At least that’s my honest and humble opinion 🙂
And of course, the Church does not force the faithful to believe in apparitions. When the Church approves an apparition, they’re letting the failthful know that it’s worthy of belief and devotion. No private revelation can add to the deposit of faith, so you’re not missing anything if you choose to not study accepted apparitions. There are many, many, many people who claim to have visions, most of them are denounced as false from the Church, so it’s prudent to be careful when you read claims about apparitions, always check with the Church first!
 
Medjugorje is still unapproved b/c it is still happening. The Church doesn’t want to approve this is from God while ‘messages’ are still be given, otherwise, if the messages turn sour, that’ll make the Church look bad. Does that make sense? Fatima took 17 years to be approved by the Church, and that was after the final apparition with the miracle of the sun. However, Medjugorje has been going on now for 32 years, and if at ANY point any of the ‘messages’ went against Church teaching or tried to add something to teaching, the Church would’ve immediately thrown the case out the door and warned the faithful to stay away from Medjugorje. After 32 years, the Church hasn’t done that though, which makes me think that this could be true. I trust the Church and they’ve been keeping a close eye on this for a long time. If the Church ultimately rejects Medjugorje then I will comply b/c, like I said, I trust the Church and I know they’re investigating.
I’ve seen lots of good fruits coming out of Medjugorje as well, but there will always be some bad too, after all, the devil isn’t about to just leave everyone alone! If she’s trying hard to bring more souls back to her Son, you better believe the devil will be at work trying to discredit her! And I do believe she’s there bringing back souls to her son, the messages always center around Him and not her. At least that’s my honest and humble opinion 🙂
And of course, the Church does not force the faithful to believe in apparitions. When the Church approves an apparition, they’re letting the failthful know that it’s worthy of belief and devotion. No private revelation can add to the deposit of faith, so you’re not missing anything if you choose to not study accepted apparitions. There are many, many, many people who claim to have visions, most of them are denounced as false from the Church, so it’s prudent to be careful when you read claims about apparitions, always check with the Church first!
Look at how the devil has twisted Vatican II and used it to bring confusion to people, so it is just not apparitions that people can take and run wild with. It is good that the Church takes so long to look into things before approving or disapproving them. That would include canonizing Saints, or anything else you could name.
 
I have a deep love of our Blessed Mother Mary, so when Holy Mother Church says that an Apparition is worthy of belief, I Believe.

Here is the thing to ALWAYS remember though. NO “apparition” that goes contrary to the Gospels or Church teaching is to be believed (and those sightings will not come from God btw).

For those who do not understand apparitions. ONLY God can permit such things to happen as our Blessed Mother Mary has no power or authority on her own to do such things.

I believe in all the Church approved apparitions, they bring me closer to God and a deeper faith. I believe that God can and does use many ways to communicate with His children, and who better to speak to His children than our Holy Mother:thumbsup:
Awesome post 👍
 
Did Mary actually say at Fatima “Only I can help you” or “Only I can provide peace” (paraphrased)?

If she did, she probably meant through her intercession and obtaining grace from Jesus…but just curious because I heard a priest say that during a homily, and I was like…Oh…ok.
 
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